Topic: I just picked up...

[Francois]

Probably to identify the negative that's in the frame.

[Kai-san]

Picked up this Kiev-4 for 25 pounds, it looks very nice. The seller said he believed it didn't work, it had been used as a prop. But the shutter speeds seems OK, the RF patch is clearly visible and it seems to focus correctly. The Jupiter-8M looks perfect without any scratches. Even the light meter seems to work, but might be a bit off. There's an adjustment on the back of the meter, but I dare not touch it as it could be the rangefinder adjustment. Does anybody know?

[Bryan]

Picked up this Kiev-4 for 25 pounds, it looks very nice. The seller said he believed it didn't work, it had been used as a prop. But the shutter speeds seems OK, the RF patch is clearly visible and it seems to focus correctly. The Jupiter-8M looks perfect without any scratches. Even the light meter seems to work, but might be a bit off. There's an adjustment on the back of the meter, but I dare not touch it as it could be the rangefinder adjustment. Does anybody know?

I haven't adjusted that on my Kiev-4 because the meter seems accurate but I believe you can get about 1/2 stop adjustment with that screw.  See the bottom of the page of the link below.  If you're really ambitious you can follow the directions on that link and overhaul the meter. 

http://www3.telus.net/public/rpnchbck/exposure%20meter.html 

[Kai-san]

Thanks Bryan! I will try the adjustment screw first, the other procedure is quite ambitious as you say.

[Francois]

You can always mark the screw's position with a lead pencil on the camera, or put a mark on a piece of tape.
If you don't like what it's doing you can always turn the screw back to where it was.

[Kai-san]

Or I can use the -2 or -4 position on the meter in stead of the diamond mark. In the beginning I will carry a separate meter to check against the built in one. It will not be done tomorrow, I just ordered a take-up spool as it is missing from this camera. And anyway the temperature outside is not tempting me to do any shooting right now. It's icy as well, brrrrr!

[Francois]

We had cold and icy a few days ago.
Going out with crampons is not exactly fun.

[zapsnaps]

4 rolls of Bergger 400 120. The UK is in lockdown, but I thought I'd get some film for when freedom returns. Just in case there is panic-buying ahead of the release.

[zapsnaps]

Some lockdown reading - Box camera now (Birk) about largely homemade street cameras and The Polaroid project - at the intersection of art & technology (Ewing et al). Both have some really interesting work. Box camera is an easy read and shows the passion of street photographers using variations on Afghan box cameras. Some of the essays in the Polaroid are a little self-important for my taste, but the illustrations are fantastic. 290 pages of wonder.

One of the advantages of lockdown has been the time to study and think about future projects. And to research the addition gear required to execute them. Naturally!

[Bryan]

I really didn't need this one since I just got a Trona recently but I couldn't pass up a great deal.  Plus it came with several plate holders with extra film sheaths.  That's seems to be the key to buying these plate cameras, make sure it comes with the proper plate holders and film sheaths.  You can end up paying more than the cost of the camera to get all the holders you need.  Of course this one uses a different holder than the Trona, it's amazing how many different types of holders there are.  it's actually a little bigger and heavier than the Trona, I was expecting them to be the same size.  They look almost identical, just a few minor differences.  This camera is in really nice condition, the bellows are light tight and everything seems to function properly.  This has a bayonet mount lens so if I can find some different focal lengths I could get more lenses for it. 

Zeiss Ikon Ideal 250/7 by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

[Francois]

That's a pretty sweet looking folder.
I'll have to look it up on camera wiki, it looks quite interesting.

[Kai-san]

Does that lens have a DKL mount, Bryan?

[Bryan]

Does that lens have a DKL mount, Bryan?

It's not a DKL mount, the Ideal came with two different mounts, earlier models had one with a release on top, the one I have is a later one with the release on the bottom.  It has two tabs on the back of the shutter that rotate into notches on two small posts.  There's a small post on the shutter that locks it into the spring mounted release lever.   There were 135mm, 150mm, 165mm and 180mm lenses available with the mount, all in their own Compur shutter. 

[Bryan]

This is how the lens mounts.  The two tabs slide into a notch on the small posts.  One of the tabs has a stop to keep it from going past the post.  The locking pin goes into the hole on the release.  You push the release in and rotate the lens/shutter counter clockwise to remove it.  It's a very simple mechanism and it seems to hold the lens/shutter on there well. 

[Francois]

Simple is always a good thing.

[Kai-san]

The nice thing about lenses with built-in shutters is that if the shutter fails you can mount another lens and go on shooting. This system was carried on into this century in medium format cameras like Mamiya and Hasselblad. Which reminds me I've got two Mamiya lenses with stuck shutters that needs fixing.

[Francois]

If it's just stuck in grease, it's not too bad.
I've got one that is so worn out that all the gaps and tabs are out of spec. I'll have to cut bits from one of the inside levers to get a bit more space in order to bend a tab a bit more so that it works... scary job.

[Kai-san]

I've been looking at the Wirgin Edinex for a long time, it's really form follows function. No unnecessary styling, just the bare bones. So, a week or so ago I found a very nice looking example. Everything is working, even the frame counter. I tried to date this camera, but that's not easy. Online I found 3 different years for the first issue of this model: 1927, 1930 or 1935. Take your pick. In addition Wirgin had the world record in putting all the different shutter/lens combinations you can imagine into one camera model. Some of them had a front focusing lens, and others like mine had a helicoid focus ring. In 1936 the Wirgin brothers had to flee Germany as they were Jewish. At that point Adox took over the factory and continued production of this model under the name Adox Adrette. After the war the Wirgin family managed to reclaim their business and continued making this model until 1951-52. Luckily mine has a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 50mm 1:2.8 in a Compur-Rapid shutter, B + 1-1/500s. From the lens serial no. I am pretty confident that this one was made in 1947-48. So now I'm just waiting for an external rangefinder to put into that strange round accessory "shoe" on top.

[Bryan]

Cool camera Kai!  Are there special rangefinders designed to fit that accessory shoe or do you have to build an adapter?

[Kai-san]

Thanks Bryan! There are rangefinders made for that accessory shoe, I've seen one from Walz and one from Leitz. I went for the Leitz FOKOS despite the price, it was the only available that looked like it was in working order. But I have not seen many camera models with that shoe, I suspect it was a rather short lived solution from the '20s and '30s. Here's a picture of the FOKOS:

[Francois]

Is it just me or does it look like it's relatively compact for a camera of that era?

[Kai-san]

Well spotted, Francois! As you can see from the pictures below it's the same width and height as the Nikon 35TI, of course the lens makes it deeper. It's also heavier than the 35TI.

[Francois]

Not surprising that it's heavier. They didn't do plastic in those days 
One of the heaviest cameras for it's size that I have is a Voigtlander Vito B... I need to give it a good CLA then I have the courage to dig into it.

[LEAFotography]

I just picked up an 85A filter to use with some aged Fuji 64T 4x5 film in my freshly made pin-hole camera. Now I've seen the tone/tinge I think I could have got away with a sweet wrapper from coffee cream chocolates or something...but let's see

[Kai-san]

Not surprising that it's heavier. They didn't do plastic in those days 
One of the heaviest cameras for it's size that I have is a Voigtlander Vito B... I need to give it a good CLA then I have the courage to dig into it.

Just for fun I put both on the scales. The 35TI is 335 grams while the Edinex is 485 grams. Not as bad as you would think. The 35TI is of course choc-a-bloc with electronics.

[zapsnaps]

Contax T and a 35Ti in the same post. If that isn't GAS-inducing, I don't know what is.

[Kai-san]

Contax T and a 35Ti in the same post. If that isn't GAS-inducing, I don't know what is.

Well, I must advice against acting on that GAS. Both the Contax T and the Nikon 35TI are irreparable these days. I will try to fix the 35TI for the second time, but it won't last. The Contax T has a winding issue that results in overlapping frames. I popped the top off it, but trying to remove that electronics board on top looks like a nightmare. No repair shops will touch it. That's why I'm reverting to old mechanical compacts, they can still be fixed. Like the Tenax I that I recently acquired. And it comes with a piece of history as well.

[Bryan]

Contax T and a 35Ti in the same post. If that isn't GAS-inducing, I don't know what is.

Well, I must advice against acting on that GAS. Both the Contax T and the Nikon 35TI are irreparable these days. I will try to fix the 35TI for the second time, but it won't last. The Contax T has a winding issue that results in overlapping frames. I popped the top off it, but trying to remove that electronics board on top looks like a nightmare. No repair shops will touch it. That's why I'm reverting to old mechanical compacts, they can still be fixed. Like the Tenax I that I recently acquired. And it comes with a piece of history as well.

I think my Contax T was starting to have a similar problem the last time I used it.  I need to look into that, it has a great lens so it would be a shame to loose it.  I tend to go for older mechanical cameras rather than electronic for the same reason. 

[02Pilot]

If anyone wants to unload a broken Contax T, I'd be more than happy to take it. I've wanted to attempt to repurpose the lens from one of those into LTM for some time now.

My own tale of a broken camera is my Konica Hexar AF. I got it broken, fixed it (broken trace on the PCB, resolved by soldering a bridge wire in), and it died again a few rolls later. I haven't delved into it more deeply, but my confidence is low. I dearly love the lens on the camera, but it is not self-contained (aperture control is on the top plate), so adapting it will be a huge undertaking.

Oh, and I have an older Tenax I that is a really nice little camera. The lens is surprisingly good, especially with B&W; I have the insanely rare yellow filter for it, which is nice.

[Kai-san]

Contax T and a 35Ti in the same post. If that isn't GAS-inducing, I don't know what is.

Well, I must advice against acting on that GAS. Both the Contax T and the Nikon 35TI are irreparable these days. I will try to fix the 35TI for the second time, but it won't last. The Contax T has a winding issue that results in overlapping frames. I popped the top off it, but trying to remove that electronics board on top looks like a nightmare. No repair shops will touch it. That's why I'm reverting to old mechanical compacts, they can still be fixed. Like the Tenax I that I recently acquired. And it comes with a piece of history as well.

I think my Contax T was starting to have a similar problem the last time I used it.  I need to look into that, it has a great lens so it would be a shame to loose it.  I tend to go for older mechanical cameras rather than electronic for the same reason.

I'm wondering if I caused the winding issue myself by winding without unfolding the lens. It's sure a very good lens and so is the one in the 35TI. If I knew more about lenses I would probably try to put it into an LTM lens body.

[Bryan]

I'm wondering if I caused the winding issue myself by winding without unfolding the lens. It's sure a very good lens and so is the one in the 35TI. If I knew more about lenses I would probably try to put it into an LTM lens body.

If winding without unfolding the lens can cause it that may be my mistake.  I didn't know it had to be opened before winding. 

[Kai-san]

The manual does not say so, only to load the film with the front door open. But if you look at the film gate with the front door closed you will see there is a felt gasket that looks like it will touch the film. I'm not sure if that's the case, but it's very close. Sometimes mine will not fire the shutter, I have to wind more than one stroke to shoot.

[Kai-san]

If anyone wants to unload a broken Contax T, I'd be more than happy to take it. I've wanted to attempt to repurpose the lens from one of those into LTM for some time now.

My own tale of a broken camera is my Konica Hexar AF. I got it broken, fixed it (broken trace on the PCB, resolved by soldering a bridge wire in), and it died again a few rolls later. I haven't delved into it more deeply, but my confidence is low. I dearly love the lens on the camera, but it is not self-contained (aperture control is on the top plate), so adapting it will be a huge undertaking.

Oh, and I have an older Tenax I that is a really nice little camera. The lens is surprisingly good, especially with B&W; I have the insanely rare yellow filter for it, which is nice.

I might consider giving you the T if you could promise me a working 35TI lens inside an LTM body.    That filter for the Tenax is interesting, do you happen to know the filter thread size? I assume it's going on the outside of the lens, just like the Ikonta 35.

[Francois]

Those elecronics issues are really the pits.
I can see a time when we'll have to upgrade the electronics using an Arduino or something similar...

[02Pilot]

If anyone wants to unload a broken Contax T, I'd be more than happy to take it. I've wanted to attempt to repurpose the lens from one of those into LTM for some time now.

My own tale of a broken camera is my Konica Hexar AF. I got it broken, fixed it (broken trace on the PCB, resolved by soldering a bridge wire in), and it died again a few rolls later. I haven't delved into it more deeply, but my confidence is low. I dearly love the lens on the camera, but it is not self-contained (aperture control is on the top plate), so adapting it will be a huge undertaking.

Oh, and I have an older Tenax I that is a really nice little camera. The lens is surprisingly good, especially with B&W; I have the insanely rare yellow filter for it, which is nice.

I might consider giving you the T if you could promise me a working 35TI lens inside an LTM body.    That filter for the Tenax is interesting, do you happen to know the filter thread size? I assume it's going on the outside of the lens, just like the Ikonta 35.

I know zero about the 35TI lens arrangement. Where are the aperture controls? If they're on the lens there's a chance it could work; if not, it's beyond my capabilities (at least until I get a lathe). And I wouldn't want to take apart a working camera just to harvest the lens. That's why I bought a non-working L35AF when I did that hack to LTM.

I'll measure the Tenax filter. It does indeed thread on the outside. According to the Zeiss literature I was able to find, they never produced any colors besides yellow. On a related note, is the lens on your post-war camera coated? Mine isn't, of course.

[Kai-san]

I cannot see any coating on mine, it's a Novar Anastigmat 35/3.5. Probably the same as you have? There is a seller on ebay with a yellow/green (GR1) filter that is supposed to fit on a Tenax or Taxona. It's 18.5mm which seems to be correct, but it's black and from Zeiss Jena. It's most likely post-war. I cannot figure out from the picture if it's the right one, there seems to be threads on both sides. I'm not taking the chance.

[02Pilot]

I cannot see any coating on mine, it's a Novar Anastigmat 35/3.5. Probably the same as you have? There is a seller on ebay with a yellow/green (GR1) filter that is supposed to fit on a Tenax or Taxona. It's 18.5mm which seems to be correct, but it's black and from Zeiss Jena. It's most likely post-war. I cannot figure out from the picture if it's the right one, there seems to be threads on both sides. I'm not taking the chance.

I can't find the one you're talking about (not that I spent a lot of time searching), but there is a Tenax I with a filter (seller in Poland) that you can check to see what the filter looks like. His is silver and probably post-war. Mine is black (over brass) and marked: Zeiss Ikon - 362/2 - 02. It has internal threads and a knurled top edge.

[Kai-san]

This is what it looks like:

[02Pilot]

Definitely looks different than mine. What makes me think it's not right is the way the text is oriented. The female threads face the camera, which means the text would be upside down as viewed from the normal shooting position. Could be OK, but I wouldn't take a chance unless it was very cheap.

[Indofunk]

The manual does not say so, only to load the film with the front door open. But if you look at the film gate with the front door closed you will see there is a felt gasket that looks like it will touch the film. I'm not sure if that's the case, but it's very close. Sometimes mine will not fire the shutter, I have to wind more than one stroke to shoot.

Oh, hey! I have 2 Contax T's (one that I dropped, dented, and eventually got to the point that it was too annoying to shoot, so I bought a second one) and the second one has that same "sometimes the shutter doesn't fire" problem! It's comforting (if entirely useless 😁) to hear that someone else has the same problem. And you're right that nobody will even look at a T to repair it, shame. So basically, I have 2 T's that are 90% functional, and I would really love for someone to make either one of them 100%, but alas, that doesn't sound like it'll happen...

[02Pilot]

I wonder what the exact nature of the problem is. I have a Minox 35 that is notorious for problems with the shutter, but they are usually caused by a specific fault, and it can be remedied (albeit temporarily) by making an adjustment. If it's a mechanical problem I'd wonder if someone couldn't suss out the cause. If it's in the electronics, you might as well call in a voodoo priestess and hope for the best.

[Bryan]

I just took a close look at my Contax T, that felt does look like it would press against the film with the lens retracted.  That may have been the problem I noticed, resistance on the film when I tried to advance it while it was shut.  I also have a working flash that I want to try out so I loaded a roll.

[Indofunk]

Pretty sure my problem is electronic. I *think* there's a correlation between the LCD film counter wigging out and the shutter not firing, but I need to be more observant when shooting, which actually runs counter to the whole purpose of a pocket camera 😁 It happens maybe 5-6 times per roll. I just know there's a cold solder joint somewhere deep within the electronic recesses of the thing 😂

[Kai-san]

I have to agree with 02, if it's electronic failure then voodoo is the way forward. The winding issue should be easier to fix, a worn plastic gear should be possible to replace even with a non-original part. The problem is to find somebody who can do it. There is a rumor going that Kyocera destroyed all spare parts and service manuals to all Contax cameras due to a disagreement with Zeiss when they stopped camera production.

[02Pilot]

If all it needs is some plastic part, find someone with a 3D printer and the ability to use CAD (or a 3D laser scanner) and you should be halfway there. I've never been inside one of those cameras, so no idea how hard it would be to R&R.

[Pete_R]

There is a rumor going that Kyocera destroyed all spare parts and service manuals to all Contax cameras due to a disagreement with Zeiss when they stopped camera production.

I think they did 'collect' many spare parts that were with distributors but certainly not all. I had contact with the ex Canadian distributor some years ago and he had boxes of spares. I should have bought the lot. I've since lost contact with the guy so don't know what happened to the remainder. I also know the UK service manager had a stock of spares tucked away. As for service manuals, most are available though I'm not sure all. I have several available for free download off my website at http://www.contax139.co.uk/documentation and I have at least one more I haven't scanned yet.

[zapsnaps]

Kai-san: Thank you for the warning about the T & 35Ti. I can't say I 'need' either of them - I simply like the look of them. But I don't want to spend 35Ti money on a paper weight, no matter how pretty it is. It makes me wonder about how long the hipster Contax T2 & T3 will last. Don't own either, but love their look.

General question to the very knowledgeable contributors to the forum about the life of camera electronics: do they generally wear out due to constant use, or do electronics components age regardless of use?

[Bryan]

General question to the very knowledgeable contributors to the forum about the life of camera electronics: do they generally wear out due to constant use, or do electronics components age regardless of use?

My experience with computerized electronics, not necessarily cameras, is that environmental conditions have a big impact on the lifespan.  Things like corrosion, moisture, heat will do bad things to electronics.  For work I've used satellite telemetry systems designed for harsh environments to monitor remote equipment.  I had one set up in Saipan in the South Pacific monitoring a water treatment system a few hundred feet from the ocean.  It would need components replaced every few years.  It was exposed to salt, typhoons, heat and lots of rain, so considering the situation I think it did ok.  If a camera is stored most of it's life in a climate controlled environment and not taken to the beach a lot or left in hot cars it will probably last longer. 

[Kai-san]

If all it needs is some plastic part, find someone with a 3D printer and the ability to use CAD (or a 3D laser scanner) and you should be halfway there. I've never been inside one of those cameras, so no idea how hard it would be to R&R.

They are pretty compact, to put it nicely. I've just asked for a shipping quote to get a print version of the service manual. $18 + shipping is not too bad. If I manage to get it I can scan it for anyone interested here on the forum.

[Kai-san]

There is a rumor going that Kyocera destroyed all spare parts and service manuals to all Contax cameras due to a disagreement with Zeiss when they stopped camera production.

I think they did 'collect' many spare parts that were with distributors but certainly not all. I had contact with the ex Canadian distributor some years ago and he had boxes of spares. I should have bought the lot. I've since lost contact with the guy so don't know what happened to the remainder. I also know the UK service manager had a stock of spares tucked away. As for service manuals, most are available though I'm not sure all. I have several available for free download off my website at http://www.contax139.co.uk/documentation and I have at least one more I haven't scanned yet.

That's a very useful website you've got there Pete, thanks for the link! By the way, are you able to service the Yashica FX-2?