Topic: The talking room

[kentish cob]

But I guess talk of banjo via "Big Yin" leads us towards one of the most recognisable intros in the history of recorded music... Any guesses as to the song and the missing link in the chain..?

Off the top of my head, the most instantly recognisable intro would be Baba O'Riley by The Who but I've no idea of a link to the Big Yin. Probably wrong anyway...

Or Eric Bell's guitar intro on Whiskey In The Jar by Thin Lizzy

Seems we've inadvertently stumbled upon a debate over what might be regarded the most instantly recognisable intro...
This is getting a bit more like a real pub...
Good call, Dave... top tune.

[astrobeck]

Saying that, I also love  ELP, Bowie and Steve Winwood, especially if he is helped out with ol slow Hand himself.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT-SFgkVlno

Thanks for that link Becky - I've been a big fan or Eric Clapton, along with Bob Dylan and Van Morrison, for the last 35 years or so. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y

That video also gave me, as "up next", Prince, Steve Winwood, Jeff Lynne and others playing "While My Guitar Gently Weeps". For me that clip comes alive when Prince takes the lead at 3.28 and never lets go.

Interesting you posted that clip...I remember once hearing an interview with Eric Clapton and the interviewer asked him who he thought was the best guitar player.....his reply..."Prince"

[Francois]

I must say Prince was definitely one of a kind and so talented in many ways.
But if there was a contest for best guitarist, I'd be hard pressed to choose.
Bruce Cockburn is pretty darn good. So is Mark Knoffler from Dire Straights.

[kentish cob]

But if there was a contest for best guitarist, I'd be hard pressed to choose.

Same here, Francois. Much like favourite photographers, I have a list of favourite guitarists as long as my arm... and the list continues to grow year on year...

[Francois]

And they all have their own individual sound, which makes things harder to sort out.
And then there is the living-dead option. Jimi was incredibly talented but all we have left are records. I remember Paul McCartney talking about him in an interview and he was still really impressed. From memory, the Beatles had just released Sergent Pepper the night before. They went to see Hendrix play and to their amazement he had listened to their album, memorized it from start to finish in less than 24 hours and played it back to the audience without missing a beat! Now that's simply incredible.

But on the living side, Jimmy Page is still as good as he ever was. Jack White is nothing to sneeze at. Alex Lifeson is really underestimated.

[AJShepherd]

Mention of Jimmy Page makes me wonder if anyone had seen this article about his London home.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/jul/08/stairway-to-heaven-jimmy-page-castle-is-his-home-led-zeppelin

When it comes to guitarists, I've always got a soft spot for Donald "Buck Dharma" Roeser, architect of another classic riff!

[astrobeck]

raising hand as another Mark Knopfler fan...he makes it look so easy!

as far as instantly recognizable intro riffs....there's Bon Jovi's "Livin' on a Prayer", it's not a long intro, but it does set a stage....
then there's that iconic twelth fret harmonic of ELP's "From the Beginning"....swoon!

[Francois]

For me it's really hard to pick an easily identifiable intro to any song as I tend to have a good memory for things like that... so in a way I tend to remember most of the ones I hear...
A friend once put me to a challenge over the phone. He would play me a bit of an MP3 and I'd have to tell him what the song was. I must have had about an upper 80% success rate. And if I don't remember the artist or the track title, I can usually sing it. I don't know if I'd be as good as I once was with the 50's music but I can definitely get a lot of them right.

[kentish cob]

And then there is the living-dead option.

Being dead is not a good enough reason for exclusion from the favourites list.

raising hand as another Mark Knopfler fan...he makes it look so easy!

Indeed he does Becky. And he makes my list too.

People seem to be largely impressed by speed, but I like a guitarist who can slow it right down. People like David Gilmore or Buddy Guy or "slowhand" himself, that man Clapton, who recognise the importance of the spaces between the notes. They're the ones who's music touches the soul.   

[Jeff Warden]

Since we're talkin', let's talk books too.

I recently finished The Overstory by Richard Powers. If I judge the power of a book by its ability to change the way I think about an elemental thing (in this case trees) then this book is one of the strongest I've read. Now I wonder how I could have gone this long knowing nothing at all about trees and how incredible they are.

http://www.richardpowers.net/the-overstory/


“Monumental…The Overstory accomplishes what few living writers from either camp, art or science, could attempt. Using the tools of the story, he pulls readers heart-first into a perspective so much longer-lived and more subtly developed than the human purview that we gain glimpses of a vast, primordial sensibility, while watching our own kind get whittled down to size…A gigantic fable of genuine truths.” —Barbara Kingsolver, New York Times Book Review (cover review)

[Francois]

Anybody watch the world cup finale?
Traffic was backed-up as far as the eye can see...

[Pete_R]

Anybody watch the world cup finale?
Traffic was backed-up as far as the eye can see...

No, I haven't exactly payed any attention to it. Plus, it clashed with Wimbledon so why would anyone want to watch it?

[Francois]

I don't know but there was a ton of Frenchmen who were really partying in Montreal!
I really feel bad for those who live in the Plateau district where most of them live... there won't be much sleep to be had tonight for them...

[kentish cob]

Anybody watch the world cup finale?

No, I haven't exactly payed any attention to it. Plus, it clashed with Wimbledon so why would anyone want to watch it?

The biggest problem with football is that it's just not cricket, old chap...
The second biggest problem is that they're using the wrong shaped ball, and players aren't allowed to pick it up and run with it..!

[Bryan]

Lately I’ve been wondering what the future is going to be for these sports that inflict head injuries.  The quarterback for my Alma mater, WSU, recently committed suicide.  That’s American football but the same injuries happen in both as well as boxing and I’m sure rugby.  After an autaupsy they found he had the brain of a senior citizen.  One of the symptoms of traumatic brain injury is depression.  I can’t immagine that mother’s armed with this type of information are going to keep letting their children play these sports. 

[Francois]

Anybody watch the world cup finale?

No, I haven't exactly payed any attention to it. Plus, it clashed with Wimbledon so why would anyone want to watch it?

The biggest problem with football is that it's just not cricket, old chap...
The second biggest problem is that they're using the wrong shaped ball, and players aren't allowed to pick it up and run with it..!

I'm just trying to imagine soccer players either playing using a stick or playing on ice.....

And that whole head injury thing is all because the players are not woodpeckers

[Francois]

Hey!
I just found this
https://petapixel.com/2018/07/16/fujifilm-launches-film-simulation-instant-noodles/

Anyone up for some Provia flavored ramen noodles? 

[Bryan]

Hey!
I just found this
https://petapixel.com/2018/07/16/fujifilm-launches-film-simulation-instant-noodles/

Anyone up for some Provia flavored ramen noodles? 

I've never tasted my Provia so I'm not sure what it's supposed to taste like.  Using instant noodles would make more sense if it was promoting Instax film. 

[Francois]

If it tastes like it smells, it can't really be any good for you

[Pete_R]

Any bread makers here?

[Francois]

So far, I know Ed's is past master in that field... he even feeds his yeast to keep them happy!

Personally, I'd love to make my own. It smells so good when it rises and cooks. But we have had a broken oven for quite some time now. We tried changing it but the new ones aren't the same size so we'd have to rebuild all the kitchen cabinets to get one in. And if we want to replace the built-in hot-plate for a regular range, we just can't because the stupid contractor layed the air ducts just under the cabinets... above floor level 

[Bryan]

I make No-knead bread every now and then, usually a caraway rye.  I don't keep the yeast as a pet, I get it out of a packet from the grocery store.  I used to have a bread machine but I got rid of it after making my first loaf of No-knead bread. 

https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/11376-no-knead-bread

https://wholespice.com/blog/recipes/no-knead-caraway-rye-bread-its-easier-than-you-think/

[astrobeck]

occasional bread baker...
used to keep yeast as pets, even tried capturing some in the wild, which turned into a never do that again experiment.

Lately it's more cake baking.
Italian Cream cake, upside down pineapple, carrot...just a few I like
 

[Pete_R]

I make cakes too. Have done for years, but bread is a recent thing for me.

What's become apparent is the multitude of techniques pushed by various bread 'experts' so was interested to know what others use.

I'm aware of Jim Lahey's no knead methods but I don't see me being organised enough to start making bread the previous day so it can rest overnight. James Morton (he's English) suggests a similar method but using more yeast so it doesn't take so long but then says put it in the fridge overnight to slow it down - slow proving makes tastier bread he says. Does it? Morton is also a 'wetter is better' man and goes for a very wet, sticky, dough. Richard Bertinet (he's French) also goes for a wet dough but has a completely different method of kneading to 'include air' in the dough (I thought it was the yeast creating CO2 that made it rise. Why do we need air in it?). Then there's Paul Hollywood (he's English too) who is much more traditional but uses oil to stop the dough sticking when kneading. My one experience of using oil in bread gave it a horrible taste so I'm avoiding that method.

Seems to me I need to become a full time baker just to try all these conflicting ideas. And that's before we get on to sour dough or soda bread.

So far I've just about mastered a basic white loaf using traditional methods. I've found the bread is a bit too chewy for me though (Morton says it should be) and then doesn't toast well which is significant for me because I probably eat more bread toasted than fresh. So for my most recent effort I substituted 20% of the bread flour for plain (all purpose) flour and that made a softer loaf which toasted better. Apparently, adding fat also produces a softer bread. Adding butter or using whole milk instead of water is supposed to work. More things I need to try.

So I'm interested in what methods others use.

[Indofunk]

Funny this topic came up just now ... I've never been much of a baker, more of a cook. I can do anything with a pan and heat and vegetables, but I've always been afraid of the oven and have only used it to roast vegetables However, just last week I bought a few packets of yeast and tried to make some naan (I figured that's a good "transition" bread ... I can make non-yeast flatbreads well, and naan is just a flatbread with yeast added), and it came out well enough that I ordered a pizza stone It will be arriving on Monday and I'll report back next week on all the failed pizzas I attempt to make

[Bryan]

Funny this topic came up just now ... I've never been much of a baker, more of a cook. I can do anything with a pan and heat and vegetables, but I've always been afraid of the oven and have only used it to roast vegetables However, just last week I bought a few packets of yeast and tried to make some naan (I figured that's a good "transition" bread ... I can make non-yeast flatbreads well, and naan is just a flatbread with yeast added), and it came out well enough that I ordered a pizza stone It will be arriving on Monday and I'll report back next week on all the failed pizzas I attempt to make

The biggest difference I've found between cooking and baking is that baking requires more precise measurements.  I do like naan, I may have to give that a shot sometime. 

[Pete_R]

Fresh from the oven this morning

[Francois]

Yummy.
Now all you need is the Collin Furze bread toasting knife to go with that 

[Francois]

For those of you without any sense of smell, knowledge in decontamination practices and a total disregard for your own health, I have found the deal of the century on a set of 2 Hasselblads!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/232855932578

And yes, that is fungus on the lenses... and on the cameras... and everywhere.

[kentish cob]

For those of you without any sense of smell, knowledge in decontamination practices and a total disregard for your own health, I have found the deal of the century on a set of 2 Hasselblads!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/232855932578

And yes, that is fungus on the lenses... and on the cameras... and everywhere.

 "Condition: acceptable"... Who the hell decided that..?

[Bryan]

49 bids and it's at $466!  Why would anyone even want it at all?

[Francois]

Well, if someone manages to get them clean and in working order and sell one of them,  there is the hope of maybe turning out a profit.
But I think it's going to be tough to do while wearing a hazmat suit!

[Jeff Warden]

Two loaves per week here, from starter that I keep fed. It's a good way to keep healthy sandwich bread around for the kids.

Ed, Leanne and I were email baking chums with a few others, several years back. Ed is still active on Instagram, sharing wonderful bakes from his kitchen and making me wish we were neighbors.

[astrobeck]

Wow!
Those look great Peter and Jeff!
I'm wishing I was Jeff's neighbor.

I had forgotten about the baking forum...I was part of that too.
Now I want to bake a loaf.
I have some sourdough starter from the Oregon Trail in my freezer....off to the grocers for flour...

[Pete_R]

Two loaves per week here, from starter that I keep fed.

I don't see me keeping a starter as a pet but intrigued to know why people like sour dough. What's the attraction?

[Francois]

Reminds me of my Grandma. I heard she used to cook the best nut bread using the nuts from the black walnut tree.
Even if I did find the same recipe, I can't find the same nuts anymore. The only place I knew one of those trees still existed was torn down and turned into a stockyard for a lumberyard...

[astrobeck]

sourdough is tangy and and a teeny bit sour and has great body for amazing grilled cheese sandwiches...
I mostly use it for that...
I also like to use crumbs of it for stuffing....ah, so good!

[Francois]

For those of you without any sense of smell, knowledge in decontamination practices and a total disregard for your own health, I have found the deal of the century on a set of 2 Hasselblads!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/232855932578

And yes, that is fungus on the lenses... and on the cameras... and everywhere.

 "Condition: acceptable"... Who the hell decided that..?

I just checked and the hammer dropped on these at 466.00$
I'm amazed at how much they fetched considering the condition. Heck, I'd rather pay a bit more to get one that actually works from the get go than trying to clean these up!

[Bryan]

I'm sure the inside doesn't look much better than the outside.

[Jeff Warden]

Two loaves per week here, from starter that I keep fed.

I don't see me keeping a starter as a pet but intrigued to know why people like sour dough. What's the attraction?

As a film shooter you know well the joys of doing things the hard way, so I think you need to keep a starter for your breads.   

Sourdough doesn't have to be sour tasting, but often it is, depending on the recipe of course. Mine are not very sour.  Keeping the starter alive takes five minutes of work a week, which I'm willing to do because it smells wonderful and makes a lovely loaf. Give it a try!

[Francois]

I wonder if the guy who bought those hasselblads could use all that fungus to make some bread starter? 
Mushroom soup anyone? 

[astrobeck]

Two loaves per week here, from starter that I keep fed.

As a film shooter you know well the joys of doing things the hard way, so I think you need to keep a starter for your breads.   

Sourdough doesn't have to be sour tasting, but often it is, depending on the recipe of course. Mine are not very sour.  Keeping the starter alive takes five minutes of work a week, which I'm willing to do because it smells wonderful and makes a lovely loaf. Give it a try!

Jeff, did you start your starter from scratch, or was it shared from someone else?
I'm  intrigued by starter that has been passed down through generations of bakers...

[Jeff Warden]

Two loaves per week here, from starter that I keep fed.

As a film shooter you know well the joys of doing things the hard way, so I think you need to keep a starter for your breads.   

Sourdough doesn't have to be sour tasting, but often it is, depending on the recipe of course. Mine are not very sour.  Keeping the starter alive takes five minutes of work a week, which I'm willing to do because it smells wonderful and makes a lovely loaf. Give it a try!

Jeff, did you start your starter from scratch, or was it shared from someone else?
I'm  intrigued by starter that has been passed down through generations of bakers...

No I had to start this one myself and I guess it's about a year old now. I also like the idea of hand-me-downs!

[Indofunk]

I just bought a pizza stone this week and I've been making pizzas and/or baguettes every day I'm not ready to maintain a colony of yeast just yet, but I do need to perfect my bread making skills. My main complaint is that my crumb structure is very fine and dense, none of those large air bubbles that I love. Any tips? I've been using all purpose flour, but I'm going to get bread flour soon, in case that makes a difference...

Internet knowledge seems to suggest that steam in the oven can correct this, but I've tried tossing water onto a pan in the oven every few minutes, and tried keeping a pot full of water in the oven for the duration, and neither has helped.

[Francois]

That's because the exterior of the dough hardens first so that no water can get in.
Maybe your dough is too dense to start with?

[Pete_R]

I just bought a pizza stone this week and I've been making pizzas and/or baguettes every day I'm not ready to maintain a colony of yeast just yet, but I do need to perfect my bread making skills. My main complaint is that my crumb structure is very fine and dense, none of those large air bubbles that I love. Any tips? I've been using all purpose flour, but I'm going to get bread flour soon, in case that makes a difference...

Internet knowledge seems to suggest that steam in the oven can correct this, but I've tried tossing water onto a pan in the oven every few minutes, and tried keeping a pot full of water in the oven for the duration, and neither has helped.

Bread flour would be the first thing I'd try. All purpose flour doesn't have the gluten to make the stretchiness necessary to hold the bubbles (at least, that's how I understand it). I haven't found adding steam makes much difference. Slashing the dough before putting it in the oven helps.

[Indofunk]

That's because the exterior of the dough hardens first so that no water can get in.
Maybe your dough is too dense to start with?

This is a possibility. I'm used to making Indian flatbreads like chapattis and pulkhas, their dough is pretty dense. I purposely make my pizza/baguette doughs much looser and stickier, but maybe they need to be even more

I just bought a pizza stone this week and I've been making pizzas and/or baguettes every day I'm not ready to maintain a colony of yeast just yet, but I do need to perfect my bread making skills. My main complaint is that my crumb structure is very fine and dense, none of those large air bubbles that I love. Any tips? I've been using all purpose flour, but I'm going to get bread flour soon, in case that makes a difference...

Internet knowledge seems to suggest that steam in the oven can correct this, but I've tried tossing water onto a pan in the oven every few minutes, and tried keeping a pot full of water in the oven for the duration, and neither has helped.

Bread flour would be the first thing I'd try. All purpose flour doesn't have the gluten to make the stretchiness necessary to hold the bubbles (at least, that's how I understand it). I haven't found adding steam makes much difference. Slashing the dough before putting it in the oven helps.

Yeah, I slash my loaves. Pizza doesn't require slashing. The bottom of my pizzas tend to be pretty awesome (though they could be awesomer), it's the crust that needs more air

[Francois]

Also, if you get to twirl it over your head will give you some extra points

[Indofunk]

Also, if you get to twirl it over your head will give you some extra points

That is, of course, the ultimate goal in this venture 

[Jeff Warden]

Internet knowledge seems to suggest that steam in the oven can correct this, but I've tried tossing water onto a pan in the oven every few minutes, and tried keeping a pot full of water in the oven for the duration, and neither has helped.

Hey Satish, in this case I think the internet is right. I found my bread improved dramatically when I switched to baking in dutch ovens. For the first half of the bake the cover is on, capturing the moisture that the dough releases, and increasing the expansion. Then the second half of the bake is without the cover, which browns the loaf.

I normally don't slash my loaves, and they just burst through the crust on their own in an attractive way.

All my experimenting came after reading the excellent and recommended Flour Water Salt Yeast by Ken Forkish.





https://www.amazon.com/Flour-Water-Salt-Yeast-Fundamentals/dp/160774273X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532981957&sr=8-1&keywords=flour+water+salt+yeast+by+ken+forkish