Author Topic: B&H stops shipping chemistry (Read 4004 times)

02Pilot · « **on:** November 22, 2016, 11:31:08 PM »

FYI, it seems B&H has stopped shipping all chemistry. I just got fixer a couple weeks ago with no problem, but now all chemistry is showing store pick-up only. Adorama, however, is still shipping.

Blaxton · « **Reply #1 on:** November 23, 2016, 03:41:38 AM »

It might be that they are no longer shipping liquid chemistry. Powdered still seems to be available for shipping. Even so, this is an alarming trend.

Bryan · « **Reply #2 on:** November 23, 2016, 05:29:54 AM »

I can see why that would apply to chemistry that's considered hazardous, there can be a large financial liability with that. I know Rodinal falls under that category, that's why it's hard to find anyone that will ship it. When hazardous materials are shipped, no matter how, they must be packaged and labeled properly based on the hazard. If something is found to be shipped improperly the fine can be thousands of dollars. Maybe they had an incident and decided it wasn't worth it. If something hazardous leaks and contaminates a post office or a truck or airplane they may be liable. I'm sure they would have insurance to cover it but an incident like that would cause their rates to go up or they they could be threatened with the loss of insurance coverage.

The only chemistry I have shipped is my fixer from Photographers Formulary and they still ship it. I'm lucky, there are a few photo shops close by that have chemistry including Rodinal. Unfortunately many people aren't that lucky to have a local source for chemistry these days.

Late Developer · « **Reply #3 on:** November 23, 2016, 08:51:27 AM »

It may not be their choice if the couriers / mail service they use refuse to transport liquids.

My wife is sending a very small parcel overseas today using one of the big carriers. Their terms and conditions reserve the right to open and inspect any package and they're strict on the sorts of things they won't get involved with.

Indofunk · « **Reply #4 on:** November 23, 2016, 10:16:49 AM »

Makes me very thankful that I happen to live in NYC. I get my C41 kits from California (freestylephoto), but if the **** hit the *** and chemicals could not be shipped to private addresses, then I would still be able to walk to Adorama and buy B&W developer and fixer....

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2016, 12:12:29 PM »

Nice use of asterisks to hide us from the horror of the word ***, Satish

Late Developer · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2016, 12:46:00 PM »

Quote from: Ed Wenn on November 24, 2016, 12:12:29 PM

Nice use of asterisks to hide us from the horror of the word ***, Satish

Not the horrific excrement / oscillating object interface word....?

02Pilot · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2016, 03:25:14 AM »

There's a lot of chatter going on on a couple other forums, including some feedback from someone at B&H. The explanation given seems pretty thin; the only specific info I found was that they were restricting shipment on Class 9 hazmat, but I can't find a comprehensive document that explains that standard. Unless it's incredibly broad in defining "hazardous," I can't see it covering virtually all photographic chemicals. Stranger still, lithium-ion batteries, a documented hazard, still seem to be available for shipping.

It sounds to me like there's more to the story, but I don't think we'll be hearing it, nor do I expect the situation to be reversed.

Indofunk · « **Reply #8 on:** November 25, 2016, 03:32:50 AM »

Quote from: Ed Wenn on November 24, 2016, 12:12:29 PM

Nice use of asterisks to hide us from the horror of the word ***, Satish

I'm your number 1 ***, Ed

Bryan · « **Reply #9 on:** November 25, 2016, 04:46:29 AM »

Quote from: 02Pilot on November 25, 2016, 03:25:14 AM

There's a lot of chatter going on on a couple other forums, including some feedback from someone at B&H. The explanation given seems pretty thin; the only specific info I found was that they were restricting shipment on Class 9 hazmat, but I can't find a comprehensive document that explains that standard. Unless it's incredibly broad in defining "hazardous," I can't see it covering virtually all photographic chemicals. Stranger still, lithium-ion batteries, a documented hazard, still seem to be available for shipping.

It sounds to me like there's more to the story, but I don't think we'll be hearing it, nor do I expect the situation to be reversed.

Class 9 is a miscellaneous DOT category that covers all the hazards not covered in classes 1 to 8. 1 to 8 covers stuff like explosives, corrosive, flammable, oxidizer, etc. So it is pretty broad. I'm sure some photographic chemicals probably fall under other categories like corrosive as well as class 9. You could read thru the Code of Federal Regulations, 49 CFR part 173 subpart D if you want something comprehensive but the hard part would be staying awake.

rpavich · « **Reply #10 on:** November 27, 2016, 07:42:42 AM »

It's been this way for a while hasn't it? I've had trouble getting liquid chems from B&H for a long time.

Whoops! I just realized that it's ALL chems...

Crap..that sucks.

02Pilot · « **Reply #11 on:** November 27, 2016, 12:47:21 PM »

Yeah, I got 5L of Ilford Rapid Fixer shipped to me about two weeks before this went down. Something changed recently, though why is not at all clear.

John Robison · « **Reply #12 on:** November 27, 2016, 05:47:51 PM »

There was a lot of chatter about this over at Rangefinder Forum, some of it very heated. The rep from B&H said it was because of increasing DOT shipping regulations and that B&H didn't want to run afoul of these regs and get slapped with large fines. Others posted that B&H already ships ground as does many other firms shipping regulated chems and that the 'reason' given by the rep was suspect. The general feeling among those that commented was that B&H just didn't care anymore about film photography and really wanted to get out of that market.

Interestingly another large NY city store, Adorama still ships chems, as well as Freestyle out of California and Photographers Formulary out of Montana.

For myself, no matter the reason for their decision, I will now switch all my ordering for film, paper, and chems to Freestyle.

02Pilot · « **Reply #13 on:** November 27, 2016, 06:29:13 PM »

I've been reading the RFF and APUG threads. B&H's rep did them no favors, and in fact probably made the situation considerably worse. Adorama and Film Photography Project will be getting the bulk of my business from now on (Freestyle is fine, but also across the country from me and their shipping isn't cheap).

Indofunk · « **Reply #14 on:** November 27, 2016, 06:43:43 PM »

I didn't realize FPP stocks chemicals. I just checked and they have the 2 items that I order most often (Unicolor C41 [which they've rebranded as FPP] and HC110). But their shipping charges are about the same as Freestyle's?

Adam Doe · « **Reply #15 on:** November 27, 2016, 07:59:47 PM »

FWIW, I have often purchased from Adorama and have always found their service to be good.

John Robison · « **Reply #16 on:** November 27, 2016, 08:37:04 PM »

Freestyle is somewhat more expensive, both in product and shipping. I live in the pacific northwest so if I order on monday and it ships on tuesday then I usually get it thursday, not bad. With B&H I tried to order enough material to get free shipping but Freestyle does not have that offer. Sure, I'll spend perhaps $20 to $30 extra per year but it will be worth it to support a company who actually cares about helping to keep silver based photography alive and affordable.

The only complaint I have against Freestyle (and other suppliers) is the requirement to register and have a pass word to order online. How am I going to remember a pass word I might use only once or twice a year? At least B&H let you check out as a 'guest', no registering required. When I need to order now I'll just call their 1-800 number. I sent Freestyle a rant about their online ordering policy. I don't expect a reply, certainly no change, but it made me feel good. I get sick about all the data mining these companies feel they are entitled to. I'm a customer dog gone it,(sheesh, I'm getting cranky in my old age) make my life simple.

Francois · « **Reply #17 on:** November 27, 2016, 09:14:20 PM »

With B&H, I've come to a point where nothing really surprises me.

I had totally forgotten about adorama... will have to add it to my bookmarks.

John Robison · « **Reply #18 on:** November 29, 2016, 04:13:06 PM »

On a happier note;
My developer is on a Fed Ex truck, 'out for delivery' as I type this.
It was an uncomfortable feeling to be out of a necessary chemical, even if I didn't intend to use it during that time, strange.
I'm trying, for the first time Photographers Formulary liquid paper developer, it is supposed to have a long shelf life, we shall see.
Not as inexpensive as Ilford initially but if one has to discard 2/3 of the mixed Ilford paper developer then total cost may actually be about the same or even less. The mixed capacity of the Formulary developer is stated as less than the Ilford product but I can live with that.

02Pilot · « **Reply #19 on:** November 30, 2016, 09:59:42 PM »

And now, just to confuse things further, many chemicals that had been listed as unshippable a few days ago are back to being available. I can only speculate that there was either a glitch somewhere along the line and the blanket prohibition was an error, or the lawyers spotted a potential problem and they had to stop everything until they could do a product-by-product review.

Indofunk · « **Reply #20 on:** November 30, 2016, 10:01:54 PM »

Quote from: 02Pilot on November 30, 2016, 09:59:42 PM

And now, just to confuse things further, many chemicals that had been listed as unshippable a few days ago are back to being available. I can only speculate that there was either a glitch somewhere along the line and the blanket prohibition was an error, or the lawyers spotted a potential problem and they had to stop everything until they could do a product-by-product review.

Those are the same 2 conclusions I would have come to. Except substitute "glitch" with "idiot web developer didn't write his SQL query correctly"

02Pilot · « **Reply #21 on:** November 30, 2016, 10:23:38 PM »

I was using "glitch" in the broad sense, which I think covers quite a few varieties of human stupidity.

Francois · « **Reply #22 on:** November 30, 2016, 11:20:20 PM »

They probably were wondering why the sales of chems had dropped to zero overnight....

gothamtomato · « **Reply #23 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:20:47 AM »

I actually work at B&H (I produce the free workshops) and this is the first I'm hearing about this. I'll ask what's going on tomorrow and let you know what I find out.

02Pilot · « **Reply #24 on:** December 01, 2016, 12:32:49 AM »

Quote from: gothamtomato on December 01, 2016, 12:20:47 AM

I actually work at B&H (I produce the free workshops) and this is the first I'm hearing about this. I'll ask what's going on tomorrow and let you know what I find out.

I was hoping you'd see this and chime in (we met once at a pinhole workshop you organized at B&H a few years ago). There's a lot more detail (and more than a little vitriol) in the APUG and RFF threads, including some responses from a B&H rep. Right now it seems like things have been sorted out (i.e., hazardous stuff restricted, non-hazardous not), but any further info would be welcome. Thanks.

henryp · « **Reply #25 on:** December 05, 2016, 03:26:31 PM »

1) B&H is strictly compliant with Federal and State regulations covering the transportation of Hazmat/Chemical materials.
2) Regulations are growing ever more complex. Some companies choose to put themselves and others at risk by violating these regulation. B&H doesn’t want to put ourselves or our carriers at risk.
3) Due to recent changes in regulation affecting both ground and air transportation of Hazmat/Chemical items, we are beginning the process overhauling our systems to ensure that we can ship every item that we are legally allowed to ship with the proper preparation, labeling, and transportation methods.

gothamtomato · « **Reply #26 on:** December 05, 2016, 06:27:17 PM »

Quote from: henryp on December 05, 2016, 03:26:31 PM

1) B&H is strictly compliant with Federal and State regulations covering the transportation of Hazmat/Chemical materials.
2) Regulations are growing ever more complex. Some companies choose to put themselves and others at risk by violating these regulation. B&H doesn’t want to put ourselves or our carriers at risk.
3) Due to recent changes in regulation affecting both ground and air transportation of Hazmat/Chemical items, we are beginning the process overhauling our systems to ensure that we can ship every item that we are legally allowed to ship with the proper preparation, labeling, and transportation methods.

Thanks for clearing that up, Henry!

02Pilot · « **Reply #27 on:** December 05, 2016, 06:33:07 PM »

Quote from: henryp on December 05, 2016, 03:26:31 PM

3) Due to recent changes in regulation affecting both ground and air transportation of Hazmat/Chemical items, we are beginning the process overhauling our systems to ensure that we can ship every item that we are legally allowed to ship with the proper preparation, labeling, and transportation methods.

Thanks for your explanatory comments, Henry. Is it safe to assume that point #3 was responsible for the ~week-long period in late November when all film chemistry was temporarily unavailable for shipping?