Author Topic: big golf ball grain negs (Read 3529 times)

MrclSchprs · « **on:** July 25, 2016, 07:20:28 PM »

I'm looking for grainy negs ... big golf ball grain negs. It is for a summer project. I am already using a smaller film format (Lomography Orca 110 in a Pentax 110) so that I need a greater optical dark room magnification. The more contrast the better, but it is the grain I am after. Tonal values come a distant second place. I figured I needed Rodinal for this.

How would you use Rodinal to get there? Or is there any other developer that is more suited for my goal?

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #1 on:** July 25, 2016, 07:30:18 PM »

Try Ilford HP5+ in Rodinal ... at 22 degrees Celsius or higher.

Grain like porridge (or golf balls).

Late Developer · « **Reply #2 on:** July 25, 2016, 08:27:15 PM »

The biggest and most pronounced grain I've ever seen is from Fomapan Retropan 320. Check out this thread (ignore the 5x4 shots as the grain isn't quite so obvious):

http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=8657.0

Francois · « **Reply #3 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:45:43 PM »

There's actually a simple recipe for that, but it doesn't involve Rodinal.
This was used by the news photographers back in the old days because it does get the job done. You can be sure to kiss the smooth gradation goodbye with this one.

Take some Tri-X and expose it at EI 3200. Then heat some Dektol to 70°F and soup the film in that for 6 minutes.
This is sure to give you grain like you wouldn't believe.
In the UK, the same trick was done with HP5 and PQ Universal.

To make things better, just expose it on grade 5 paper!

And for even bigger grain, use the Lomography POP9... it makes 3 frames wide and 3 frames tall on a single 35mm frame.

Then you can call the grain monster

MrclSchprs · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2016, 07:22:01 AM »

Your recipe sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately I am tied to a Pentax Auto 110 camera for this project. With the exception of focusing that is an auto everything camera. No exposure control and no Tri X.

But nevertheless, your suggestion is something to remember. Thanks for that!

hookstrapped · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2016, 12:57:20 PM »

I use Tri-X for my Brooklyn Nights series and get pretty pronounced grain

http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=8673.0

I develop in HC-110. It's not pushed but I tend to increase the contrast in PS, which brings out the grain.

Edit: Oh, you said No Tri-X. Still the HC-110 I found brings out very nice grain and the contrast advice still applies, I think.

SLVR · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2016, 02:48:18 PM »

So you are looking for a development process to use with orca? I assume that you aren't respooling your own cartridges.

I would just start experimenting with rodinal at different dilutions. I found that at 1:50 there was some pretty pronounced grain on 35mm XX negatives. Perhaps more concentrated dilutions with more frequent agitation schemes will get you close to where you want to be.

Im not sure the times but rodinal 1:25 with agitations every 30 sec would be where I would start.

Francois · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2016, 03:06:39 PM »

The general rule is pushed high speed emulsion, high developer temperature and a very active contrasty developer.
So I think that even with orca film, you could maybe find a trick to get the auto 110 to underexpose the heck out of the film and still develop in warm paper developer.

John Robison · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2016, 06:44:48 PM »

How big are the prints you intend to make?

ManuelL · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2016, 07:05:11 PM »

Are you going for a reticulation effect?

MrclSchprs · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2016, 02:42:27 PM »

Thanks for all the input! I don't know yet how big the prints will be. I am hoping 8x10, but I do know if I can get my enlarger head high enough for that. Yesterday I did some test shots. I ruined one cartridge by my own mistake. It turned out completely blank. Did a clip test, and yep .... my APG 09 lost all its magic. Did a second cartridge. This time with GSD-10 warmer than normal and longer than normal. On eye sight the negs look good. Haven't put them in my enlarger yet.

John Robison · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:34:59 PM »

Not to suggest you obtain and start on still another format but.......
I have for years shot Minolta 16 submini's. The negative size is 10X14mm and of course, in the normal course of using them my goal has been finer grain, not larger. However I think it would be an ideal size neg for producing a heavy grain effect. That is if you can get the enlarger head high enough to get a big enough print. Fortunately I have a enlarging head made for this size neg with a 25mm lens and can enlarge to 8x10 although for regular enlargements I don't go over 5x7. There is also the option of shooting 35mm on a SLR and with a short lens, say 28mm, and then cropping out the center part of the neg. That option depends again on what your enlarger can do. It does have the advantage of complete exposure control.

Bryan · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2016, 04:45:45 PM »

The shot below was Kodacolor Gold 200 110 that expired 11/1991. you could push it and develop it as black and white to get more grain. I didn't push this photo, I metered it at 50 ISO.

Magnolia by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

Francois · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:37:52 PM »

As for the enlarger problems, here's a quick and dirty trick nobody knows about!
If you just drop a close-up lens on top of the enlarger lens (yes, inside the enlarger), you'll be instantly capable of making bigger enlargements with minimal loss of resolution...

Indofunk · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:42:26 PM »

Quote from: Francois on July 27, 2016, 09:37:52 PM

As for the enlarger problems, here's a quick and dirty trick nobody knows about!
If you just drop a close-up lens on top of the enlarger lens (yes, inside the enlarger), you'll be instantly capable of making bigger enlargements with minimal loss of resolution...

#francoistips

John Robison · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2016, 09:55:32 PM »

Quote from: Francois on July 27, 2016, 09:37:52 PM

As for the enlarger problems, here's a quick and dirty trick nobody knows about!
If you just drop a close-up lens on top of the enlarger lens (yes, inside the enlarger), you'll be instantly capable of making bigger enlargements with minimal loss of resolution...

Good idea. I've also seen 28mm camera lenses sitting inside the bellows of a big enough enlarger for either large prints or massive cropping. i built a fixed magnification enlarger out of plywood that uses a 24mm f2.8 to make 4.5X6 inch prints on 5X7 paper of my half frame negs. Great for quick set up and very compact. Lens focusing lets me fine tune focus.

tkmedia · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2016, 10:48:05 PM »

colour c41 film in regular caffenol.

Francois · « **Reply #17 on:** July 27, 2016, 11:26:28 PM »

Quote from: John Robison on July 27, 2016, 09:55:32 PM

Quote from: Francois on July 27, 2016, 09:37:52 PM
As for the enlarger problems, here's a quick and dirty trick nobody knows about!
If you just drop a close-up lens on top of the enlarger lens (yes, inside the enlarger), you'll be instantly capable of making bigger enlargements with minimal loss of resolution...

Good idea. I've also seen 28mm camera lenses sitting inside the bellows of a big enough enlarger for either large prints or massive cropping. i built a fixed magnification enlarger out of plywood that uses a 24mm f2.8 to make 4.5X6 inch prints on 5X7 paper of my half frame negs. Great for quick set up and very compact. Lens focusing lets me fine tune focus.

This reminds me of that weird plastic enlarger Beseler made during the 90's. The think clamped to the side of a table and had a fixed head and column. You simply moved the easel along a series of peg holes to change magnification. Quite clever really. I'll try and find a photo of the thing.

MrclSchprs · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2016, 10:31:44 AM »

A small update ... Orca 110 in GSD-10 gives me grain. Using a regular 50mm enlarger I can not get the size I would like, but I found a 25mm enlarger lens. The new found gem is mounted on a lens card in such a way that I can not get it off. Work in progress ....

Francois · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2016, 02:11:38 PM »

Just a word on the new lens: it will work only on a diffusion enlarger unless you have the proper condenser set (which I doubt has been ever made).

In reality all it will give you is a bigger enlargement size.

MrclSchprs · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2016, 09:02:00 PM »

Yes, I know, I'm using a diffuser head. And the bigger enlargement is what I am looking for, among other things. A 50mm does not cover a 8x10 size. I printed some test negs. I did get some grain but not what I am looking for.

Tomorrow I will try your suggestion. Warmer print developer. First I will need to get 16mm Kodak Double XX film inside a regular 35 canister so that I can use a proper SLR for some test shots. Looking forward to do some tests!

Faintandfuzzy · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2016, 09:25:49 PM »

I have used the Orca 100 and I agree...for 110, the grain is pretty good. I have two Pentax Auto 110 and for a lot of LoFi landscape work, I switched to a Diana 110 Mini. I switched my film to Fukkatsu 400 color in 110 size. I then push it 1 stop in a C41 Tetanol kit. I Convert to b&w using Silver Efex and get results like this:

John Robison · « **Reply #22 on:** August 01, 2016, 07:10:56 AM »

Quote from: Faintandfuzzy on July 31, 2016, 09:25:49 PM

I have used the Orca 100 and I agree...for 110, the grain is pretty good. I have two Pentax Auto 110 and for a lot of LoFi landscape work, I switched to a Diana 110 Mini. I switched my film to Fukkatsu 400 color in 110 size. I then push it 1 stop in a C41 Tetanol kit. I Convert to b&w using Silver Efex and get results like this:

Where is Fukkatsu sold? Saw them a couple of years ago then nothing.

Faintandfuzzy · « **Reply #23 on:** August 01, 2016, 03:51:21 PM »

I bought up a boatload of it from the Film Photography Project.