Topic: Be careful while visiting Nottinghamshire

[Francois]

I don't know if any of you is planning on doing some street photography in Nottingham and the surrounding county but this PSA might be of interest if you do
http://petapixel.com/2016/07/15/uk-police-force-taking-pics-women-without-consent-can-hate-crime/

While the story is a welcome plus on the route to women's safety, lets just hope nobody ever has to deal with a loonie that now has the power to land pretty much anyone in jail.

[SLVR]

I surely hope that this is just a generalization. As I understand it, peepers, upskirt or any other unwarranted types of shots of that nature I believe is what they are trying to address.

[Aksel]

No problem shooting what ever you want if you´r a female then?
This should in reality couse no problem, "look, this old thing can´t even take picture. No screen or memory card!"

[Late Developer]

I really dread to think where this will end up.  Here's an excerpt from the Nottinghamshire Police's press release:

"Nottinghamshire Police has been working hard to understand exactly what hate crime means to the people of Nottinghamshire and has a clear definition in place. A hate crime is simply any incident, which may or may not be deemed as a criminal offence, which is perceived by the victim or any other person, as being motivated by prejudice or hatred.

Misogyny hate crime, in addition to the general hate crime definition, may be understood as incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman, and includes behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman. 

Examples of this may include unwanted or uninvited sexual advances; physical or verbal assault; unwanted or uninvited physical or verbal contact or engagement; use of mobile devices to send unwanted or uninvited messages or take photographs without consent or permission."

Therefore, by this definition (not my interpretation), a hate crime may or may not be an actual criminal offence that currently exists on the statute books but it automatically becomes a crime if "perceived by the victim or any other person" and this can include "uninvited verbal contact or engagement and/or taking photos without consent or permission".  Therefore, ANYONE (not just the "victim") can report ANYONE to the Police and say they've witnessed a hate crime as a result of someone talking to or talking photographs of "the victim".  Then the Police will be required to take action.

I'm not suggesting that there is never an issue with the way some street photographers act but this seems like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, to me, and I suspect that there will be way more reporting of these "hate crimes" than ever imagined - deflecting and wasting a lot of Police time and effort.

[Francois]

One of the problems with such cases is that while there could be witnesses that are not involved in the case, these are seldom easy to identify and interview. So it essentially becomes the photographer's voice against the victim's with essentially very few possibilities of defense on the photographer's part.

To me, there are only two safe loopholes in this law. Things are always safe for women photographers who do street photography. For the rest, using a long lens to simply make sure that the person you photograph is not aware that they are photographed and thus can't complain.

[02Pilot]

I don't know a lot about the specifics of the British justice system, but since when do regional police get to write laws? Police are generally understood to be law enforcement, so how exactly does this mean anything? If they try to enforce their own policy, will it be prosecuted? How can it be if there's no law (as in one passed by Parliament) that's been broken? Seems to me, if they apply this policy rigidly, that this is just opening up the regional police to a bunch of wrongful arrest lawsuits, but then I'm American, so pretty much everything leads to lawsuits.

[Late Developer]

Francois:
I take your point entirely about women photographing women but it doesn't follow automatically that they have any more or less criminal intent.  However, I'm definitely not sold on the subject of using long lenses to pick off subjects as, if caught in the act, it would be extremely difficult to say you were taking general street scenes and could be deemed as a serious invasion of privacy - a la "paparazzi".

02Pilot:
I don't think local Plod are writing new laws as much as agreeing on a (dubious?) interpretation of existing laws to suit a specific purpose which, for whatever reason, currently seems to be a particular issue in Nottingham.  My worry is that this becomes the next big stick that enters the popular consciousness with which to hit anyone daring to take photographs in a public place.  We photographers must look like a very strange and suspicious lot to the rest of society......

[Francois]

I wonder how this applies to selfies? 
And how does taking a selfie while receiving a slap in the face count? 

I think I might have a solution for us!
Just use the biggest most unwieldy camera you have in your stuff. If anybody tries to accuse you of harassment, you can always say that they had plenty of time to see the camera and get out of the picture before you pressed the shutter 

[Sandeha Lynch]

 

Yeah, or say, "I'm shooting pinhole - you won't be recognisable anyway."

Was it Gary Winogrand, when asked why he took a shot of someone, would say, "I'm gonna make you famous !"

[charles binns]

Can't say I'm over bothered about this.  To be honest,  I wouldn't blame a woman for getting upset if someone took her photograph without her consent -  I wouldn't like it.

Realistically I can't see many complaints being made under this interpretation of  hate crimes and then only if a woman thought her privacy was really being violated - and if that happens the photographer needs to think very hard about the way he approaches his subjects.

Anyway, anything that makes the lives of would be Vivian Maiers difficult is a good thing in my opinion!   Looking at some of the crap that gets posted on Flickr, a lot of so called street photographers deserve to be incarcerated!