Topic: Argentix C41 powder kit

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Anyone has used this (in powder) kit to process colour film? If so, what is your opinion about it?

The fact they sell chemistry in powder will allow me to break the 2 litres lot in two, prepare only one litre reserving the remaining with no loss of chemical properties. Or am I wrong?

[Francois]

I don't know about splitting powder since in order for it to work the scheme would need to be very evenly distributed throughout the pack.
But the only way to find out is to try...

I know splitting it into two airtight or possibly vacuumed bottles would help with conservation.
Using distilled water where there is no molecular oxygen would also help.

[Indofunk]

We had a similar discussion regarding splitting Tetenal (liquid) and Unicolor (powder) here: http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=8624.msg115498#msg115498

[Terry]

I had thought about this method, but I was put off by the idea of inhaling the dust from the powder.  I use the Unicolor powder kits because where I am they're cheaper than Tetenal and because I assume that powders have a longer shelf life than liquids.  All that said, what works for me is to mix up an entire liter and split the mixed liquids into two sets of 500 mL bottles (brown glass), keeping them tightly capped.  I'm half way into my third batch of chemistry and it's been about 14 months since I began C-41 processing. 

[Indofunk]

I had thought about this method, but I was put off by the idea of inhaling the dust from the powder.  I use the Unicolor powder kits because where I am they're cheaper than Tetenal and because I assume that powders have a longer shelf life than liquids.  All that said, what works for me is to mix up an entire liter and split the mixed liquids into two sets of 500 mL bottles (brown glass), keeping them tightly capped.  I'm half way into my third batch of chemistry and it's been about 14 months since I began C-41 processing.

Listen to whatever this man says, because he is the C41 Whisperer. I don't know anyone who has made C41 chems last as long as he has on his first time round

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

I've had a bad experience splitting Fuji X-Press kit liquid chemistry, so I look for another method since I don't process colour film too often. But maybe it was my fault and not Fuji's kit.

I've sent a message to Argentix this morning and have a quick and gentle answer from Jacques Brodeur.

«Hi Domingo
How are your days going?

It is not recommended to do ''part-dilution''.
If you do so, there is the risk that the different chemical products will not be evenly splitted.
This advice applies to all powder chemistry containing multiple ingredients.

The unopened powder chem will last.

Thanks for asking, and have a great weekend!

Jacques Brodeur»

[Terry]

Satish: thanks for not mentioning my second time around, when the chemistry fell off the cliff and died.  (admittedly, it was after nearly five months.)

Domingo: What Mr Brodeur says does make a lot of sense.  But what these companies don't tell us is that their chemistry lasts much longer than they admit: I got 30+ rolls from my first batch of C-41.

[Indofunk]

Also, I split powder once before and it had no ill effect. I feel that companies tend to be VERY conservative in their advice to avoid complaints and lawsuits, so I don't often heed their advice to the letter.

[jojonas~]

Aaand sometimes they are right. I think I got only 3 extra rolls out of my tetenal dev kit until it died dead. Though I did not use optimal storage (plastic soda bottles) so that probably played a role in it.

[Terry]

I wish I knew what factors cause degradation of the chemistry.  My second batch fell off the proverbial cliff--one day it was working fine and a few days later it had completely failed.  I suppose storage could be important--brown glass jars seem to be good--and no doubt time is a factor, as is the number of rolls it has been asked to interact with.  I also wonder about temperature.

Any thoughts?

[Indofunk]

Someone here warned me against cross contaminating the dev with blix (well, specifically with fix). Apparently, 1 part per million of fix can kill the dev in seconds. Ever since then, I've been paranoid about cross contamination ... separate pitchers, funnels, I even keep the clean dry equipment on opposite sides of my sink while working. Haven't had a sudden death incident since then *knocks on wood*

[Terry]

Hadn't thought of that.  I'm pretty obsessive about cross-contamination: two funnels (one for developer and one for blix and stab) separate mixing beakers and separate stirring sticks.

[Francois]

Temperature will play a role in accelerating the degradation. But freezing will probably kill it.
Somehow, I'm thinking that putting some in the fridge door could possibly work. It shouldn't be too cold as to cause the formation of crystals yet cold enough to slow down degradation.

Though our own Chemic-Al (he's a former member who has a record for keeping some in his garden shed) did get surprising results...

[MacArron]

I have never developed C41 myself but to me it would be good to have the powder kit in small doses to be fully used per roll (one shot) That would absolutely extend the shelf life of the developer up to 'best before'

Let's assume that a normal kit lasts x rolls (+ unknown extra number) Wouldn't it be good to have small doses at a fixed price so we could know cost/roll?

Mmm though thinking again, I don't mind spending 3 EUR developing per roll when it is 2 rolls per month...

Please do excuse me

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

[...]
Please do excuse me

nope 

[Terry]

Of course, if cost control is your primary objective, the way to go would certainly be to follow Reinhold's example, buying your own chemicals and then mixing as needed.  By not using a kit, you're removing the risk of an imbalance of chemicals and by mixing the chemistry dry you're prolonging the shelf life and significantly reducing the cost.  That said, my own experience says that it's quite possible to do your own C-41 for $1 or less per roll.  My greatest failure--the batch that died completely--only failed after 20 or so rolls had been through it.  I call it a failure because the batch before it was good for more than 30 rolls.  At $20/liter those are good numbers.

Reinhold's article: http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=8224.0

[MacArron]

Thank you Terry for the link to Reinhold's article. Pretty interesting indeed

[Terry]

Reinhold is the C-41 guru.

[Indofunk]

Reinhold = C41 Guru
Terry = C41 Whisperer

The one thing I can advise you on is to ALWAYS do a leader test on your chems. The last time I forgot to do it, of course my chems had died and I wasted 2 whole rolls of film 

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

[...]
The one thing I can advise you on is to ALWAYS do a leader test on your chems. The last time I forgot to do it, of course my chems had died and I wasted 2 whole rolls of film 

this is a really good advice. It also happened to me and is a very frustrating experience discover through an irrecoverable roll that your developer has suddenly expired.