Topic: helios 44 58mm on a leica m

[huevos_rancheros]

I've had this helios lens sitting around for about 2 years now.

just wondering if anyone has had experience with this particular lens on a m mount camera. was thinking it would be fun to give it a try on the m6 with an adapter, but i know its going to be a little bit of guessing since its  58mm.

[Francois]

I don't think you'll see that big of a difference between the 50 and the 58mm. Just frame a bit in to the inside of the frame markings and you should be in the ballpark.

[Aksel]

The Summicron 50 is more like i 52mm and the frame for 50mm is a bit narrow for it - guessing it´s showing about 95% inside the frame. The problem will be the lack of rangefinder coupling, it could be solved if your handy, but it might be vignetting if you ad - let´s say a suitable plastic tub glued on to the back of the lens. If you really want to - there are rangefinders for the hot shoe that works adequately at moderate distances.

[Francois]

Don't most adapters for M39 to Bayonet offer rangefinder coupling?
I know you have to choose your adapter for the finder lines you want to see in the frame...

[Aksel]

Don't most adapters for M39 to Bayonet offer rangefinder coupling?
I know you have to choose your adapter for the finder lines you want to see in the frame...

Indeed but as far as I know the helios 44 never came in ltm/l39 - only for slr in either M39 or M42 (and several other bayonet mounts)
correct me if I`m wrong. I have a M-converted Zeiss Ultron 1.8/50 that used to be Icarex mount meaning it´s possible but not really cost efficient with the Helios. Could be worth trying to hack it with adapter + glue and a plastic tube, labour intensive to get it right but hey!

[Francois]

If it's an m42 mount, you can't get rangefinder coupling simply because those lenses need to be a reverse telephoto design.
You don't usually have any movement of the rear element on SLR lenses.

I know there are some really cheap m39 to m42 adapters on eBay.

[SLVR]

The Summicron 50 is more like i 52mm and the frame for 50mm is a bit narrow for it - guessing it´s showing about 95% inside the frame. The problem will be the lack of rangefinder coupling, it could be solved if your handy, but it might be vignetting if you ad - let´s say a suitable plastic tub glued on to the back of the lens. If you really want to - there are rangefinders for the hot shoe that works adequately at moderate distances.

Im sorry but I'll have to disagree.

Having owned both the type 2 and type 4 summicrons they all offer wider than the framelines. Whether they are exactly 50mm I'm not certain, but framing with a Leica M + 50mm can be done fairly tight.

I always compose 50mm knowing that the ACTUAL framing is about one line width looser.

Proof?

The framelines in this shot showed that I would crop TIGHT to the guitar player on the left and the people on the right. Look how much "bleed" I had.



Knowing this I can compose pretty accurately all the way to the frame edge.

[Aksel]

The Summicron 50 is more like i 52mm and the frame for 50mm is a bit narrow for it - guessing it´s showing about 95% inside the frame. The problem will be the lack of rangefinder coupling, it could be solved if your handy, but it might be vignetting if you ad - let´s say a suitable plastic tub glued on to the back of the lens. If you really want to - there are rangefinders for the hot shoe that works adequately at moderate distances.

Im sorry but I'll have to disagree.

Having owned both the type 2 and type 4 summicrons they all offer wider than the framelines. Whether they are exactly 50mm I'm not certain, but framing with a Leica M + 50mm can be done fairly tight.
 
I always compose 50mm knowing that the ACTUAL framing is about one line width looser.

What I tried said is that you get more than you see inside the frames with the 50 on the M, for some reason I managed to think of a 58mm as wider than a 50, don´t ask me why. I`w had the pleasure of using more or less all 50´s for the M and that´s the nice feature - you get that little bit of "bonus" making it faster to compose    If you have a look at your lens after the infinity mark there´s two digits indicating the actual focal length for your lens. Thank´s for sorting it out! 

[huevos_rancheros]

Haha, so turns out the helios is m42 mount.

I'm actually stoked out, now im looking around the bay for a 50mm m39 mount.


I've read some good stuff about the canon 50mm 1.4 (& 1.5) ltm, & less about the 1.2 lens. but im defiantly leaning towards the 1.2 because i liked the results I've seen online.

any opinions/recommendations on the lens i land on? maybe im over looking the Jupiter lenses?

[Aksel]

Jupiter-8 are great glass for the price, the J-3 are a bit of a gamble - of the 4 I have had one has been good, two OK and one was really not usable. Depending on your likings, Summar and Summitar can be had for cheap, also the collapsible summicron 50 is good value for money, the Nokton 50/1.5 is great, modern glass with lots of contrast and sharpness if that´s your thing. Not that different for the canon 50/1.4 really. Also, don´t overlook the Voigtlander 50/2.5 if you can live with f2.5, small - draws nicely and it´s well built. For me, the canon 50/1.2 and 0.95 are just to large at the nose of my ltm body, that rules them out for me. Also, as you say - the 1.2 is soft and low contrast - if you like the look nothing compares to it. It´s a jungle out there 

[Francois]

But if you want something surprisingly good, think industar 61. If you get a good one, it's going to be one of the best lenses in the bag. If it turns out to be a dud, it's going to be so-so.

[02Pilot]

I have the Canon 50/1.5 and 50/1.9, Jupiter-8, and Summitar in LTM, plus some slower 50s.

The J-8 and Canon 50/1.5 are classic Sonnar formula lenses. Soft and low contrast wide open (especially the Canon), but by f/4 showing good central sharpness and much improved contrast. Some say they aren't general purpose lenses, but I think that only holds true if you're after modern levels of resolution corner to corner. I quite like them both, though I tend to use the Canon more because of the click-stop aperture and the fact that it rotates in the standard Leica direction (the J-8 turns the opposite way, like a Contax (from which the Russians copied)).

The Canon 50/1.9 and Summitar are double Gauss/Planar types, and almost indistinguishable externally. Optically, the Summitar is improved (adding an extra element); the Canon is essentially a coated copy of the preceding Summar's optics stuffed into a copy of the Summitar's body. The Canon shows a lot of softness wide open, and can be swirly and a little crazy in the corners; it really doesn't sharpen up until f/5.6 or so. The Summitar is much more controlled, and has better ultimate resolution, while still retaining a certain creaminess. The Summitar is probably my favorite fast 50, while the Canon is great for those times you want an imperfect look.

I find all of the later Canon lenses - the black-bodied ones - to be pretty big on most LTM bodies, later Canons excepted. The 1.2 is enormous on anything.

[02Pilot]

Yes, the I-61 can be really good. I gave mine to limr (I have way too many 50s - it just wasn't going to get much use with me), but the results I got from it were remarkably good. Typical later Soviet ergonomics, though.

[huevos_rancheros]

hmm, thanks for the thoughts. yeah im really drawn to the summitar actually , is it a fuss to use and focus?

 that Industar 61 is tempting since i can afford that while i try and sell my voigt 35mm 1.4 for funds.
how would i go about getting a good copy, besides looking for clean optics? is it just luck of the draw?

haha. am i looking at the right thing, most of these industar lenses are going for $20 & less on the bay.

[huevos_rancheros]

Yep, im defiantly getting one of these industar 61's today, bummer they are all sold out of russia, its gonna take a minute to reach my little town in cali.

[02Pilot]

I've bought all my Soviet gear from Fedka in New York. More expensive, but guaranteed and not shipped from Russia in a brown paper wrapper.

The Summitar is not fussy to use, at least not any more than contemporary lenses. About the only thing I'd wish for would be click-stops for the aperture, but other than that it's fine. Finding a good one is the major issue - it's not as hard as finding a good Summar, but there are plenty of not-so-good ones out there, as the glass is still fairly soft and prone to damage.

[Kai-san]

I've bought all my Soviet gear from Fedka in New York. More expensive, but guaranteed and not shipped from Russia in a brown paper wrapper.

Just a little defense for the Russians. I've bought quite a few things from Russia and it's been top quality and not a whiff of any brown paper. The Russians are not so backward as we would like them to be.

[Francois]

I got mine from Russia and was happy for most of the things.
There are many versions of the Industar-61. Mine is a traditional with a zebra striped housing. There is also the I-61 L which contains some Lantanum to improve the light gathering ability. I don't know if it changes much or not.

When I shopped, I looked for good glass, no separation of the elements, smooth focusing and smooth aperture. Oil on the blades won't matter on these.
I got mine at a reasonable price. But just be prepared to wait. While the shipper put it through the mail rapidly and packed well, the darn thing got stuck somewhere in a Canada Post warehouse. It took a whole two weeks for the package to make it from Toronto to Mississauga! Now if you want to know how far they are, lets just say I can walk from one to the other in probably half a day... I think they didn't like that it came from Russia...

[SLVR]

cmon, walk from toronto to mississauga in a day?

Not something I would ever want to do in this lifetime. However you could cheat like most people and include mississauga in the GTA.

FYI these days next day canada post from mississauga to toronto downtown is $11. I just had a lens shipped about a month ago.

[02Pilot]

I've bought all my Soviet gear from Fedka in New York. More expensive, but guaranteed and not shipped from Russia in a brown paper wrapper.

Just a little defense for the Russians. I've bought quite a few things from Russia and it's been top quality and not a whiff of any brown paper. The Russians are not so backward as we would like them to be.

Stop contradicting my Cold War stereotype! 

[Francois]

cmon, walk from toronto to mississauga in a day?

Not something I would ever want to do in this lifetime. However you could cheat like most people and include mississauga in the GTA.

FYI these days next day canada post from mississauga to toronto downtown is $11. I just had a lens shipped about a month ago.

You got to be kidding! 11 bucks for that short a ride... No wonder why they took their time with my package, I paid less than that to get it delivered from Saint-Petersburg!

I know doing Toronto to Mississauga in a day would be a killer for most, including me. It's still the better part of a 30 km. I know a guy who walks almost 25km every day to go to and back from work (he used to be in the army so that might explain it a bit). And a marathon is 42 km...

[huevos_rancheros]

Huh, well maybe its worth going through Fedka? just went to the site, and i see a induster 61 for $50, not bad considering it wont take as long to ship and probably a pretty clean piece.


theres a 61-LD & a zebra on the site, not too sure about the differences, or if they're major differences

[Aksel]

I've bought all my Soviet gear from Fedka in New York. More expensive, but guaranteed and not shipped from Russia in a brown paper wrapper.

Just a little defense for the Russians. I've bought quite a few things from Russia and it's been top quality and not a whiff of any brown paper. The Russians are not so backward as we would like them to be.

Just don´t eat the complementary "candy" 
I think i´m at a 50/50 when it comes to success dealing with buying form the former eastern block, also shipping to western Europe have on average never taken more than 60 days. 

I need to look into the 61. Never had the pleasure of playing with one yet.

[huevos_rancheros]

just found a good one on the bay there, and its shipping for my state! the outside wasn't super pretty kinda dirty, but clean optics, said the focus was smooth too! pretty excited about this cheap lil lens! thanks for the recommendations guys!

still gonna grab another m39 50mm once i sell my voigt lens, found a nikkor 5cm 1.4 that looked pretty sweet to me, defiantly going to have to spend some more time looking for the 50mm i want!

[Francois]

theres a 61-LD & a zebra on the site, not too sure about the differences, or if they're major differences

From what I read, they're both pretty similar when it comes to the results.
Only difference is that the LD is very slightly radioactive.

[huevos_rancheros]

So got the lens, everything checks out. Mounted it to the m6, it's focusing, now I just gotta see the roll to know. But when I mount it on, the fotodiox adapter doesn't seem to make a click. Nor does the lens release button doesn't pop back up... Is this how the adapters usually work?


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[SLVR]

cmon, walk from toronto to mississauga in a day?

Not something I would ever want to do in this lifetime. However you could cheat like most people and include mississauga in the GTA.

FYI these days next day canada post from mississauga to toronto downtown is $11. I just had a lens shipped about a month ago.

You got to be kidding! 11 bucks for that short a ride... No wonder why they took their time with my package, I paid less than that to get it delivered from Saint-Petersburg!

I know doing Toronto to Mississauga in a day would be a killer for most, including me. It's still the better part of a 30 km. I know a guy who walks almost 25km every day to go to and back from work (he used to be in the army so that might explain it a bit). And a marathon is 42 km...

Cheaper than a Cab in the city. Base fare is something like $4.50 or $5.00. Also I had the same package couriered up to markham for $18. Id say $11 is pretty good!

[Francois]

So got the lens, everything checks out. Mounted it to the m6, it's focusing, now I just gotta see the roll to know. But when I mount it on, the fotodiox adapter doesn't seem to make a click. Nor does the lens release button doesn't pop back up... Is this how the adapters usually work?

Usually, you mount the adapter first on the camera and then mount the lens. Since the lens is screw mount, there's no click or anything, you just screw until you reach the top.
On most Russian rangefinders, you're supposed to put the lens at the closest distance it will go before mounting it on the camera to ensure that you don't damage the rangefinder (or at least bump it out of focus). It might be the same on the M6.

Cheaper than a Cab in the city. Base fare is something like $4.50 or $5.00. Also I had the same package couriered up to markham for $18. Id say $11 is pretty good!

I must admit that it sure beats driving there... I don't think you could pay me enough to take the 401 or the Gardiner every day.

[Aksel]

So got the lens, everything checks out. Mounted it to the m6, it's focusing, now I just gotta see the roll to know. But when I mount it on, the fotodiox adapter doesn't seem to make a click. Nor does the lens release button doesn't pop back up... Is this how the adapters usually work?


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Yes it should click/lock as any other lens would with M mount.  Sometimes the cheap adapters needs a bit of help with a file, some are not saveable. With ltm-M I normally spin the adapter on the lens, mount the lens with adapter on the camera and gives it a bit of a twist to make sure it´s tightened properly. As Francois said, it´s a good idea to mount it at it´s closest focus. If you have a look at the camera and the back of the lens you´ll see why 
Curious as to how you like the lens!

[huevos_rancheros]

Huh, well maybe I got a dud adapter?

Is this what's wrong? I can tell there's a big difference between my Elmarit mount  & the adapter, the depth of the curve on both the mounts is what I noticed.

[Aksel]

This is what you are looking for, sometimes they are a few mm. off 

[huevos_rancheros]

Wow! Totally wouldn't have thought it was that small divot just looking at the adapter.

Anyways I'll probably just buy another and see if that one clicks, if not I'm not super concerned at the moment.

Anyways here's a shot of my dad with the industar wide open with hp5 at 1600 developed in dd-x


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[Francois]

If you got the adapter from fotodiox, there's probably a warranty on it.