Topic: The Ondu Game

[Francois]

Since many of us ordered some variant of the new Ondu pinhole through their latest kickstarter campaign, I thought we could play the Ondu game!

It's a no cost betting game. You can change your bet as many times as you want. There is nothing to win...
And at the same time we get to test the wisdom of the masses theory, which is pretty cool in itself.

So, when do you think you'll receive your new Ondu Mark II pinhole camera?

[KevinAllan]

I'm certainly hoping before Xmas, or the season will not be so festive for me.

[Kayos]

I put 4th week in November, but I'm an optimist

[zapsnaps]

I also put in 4th week of November, before reading the subsequent posts - so 'my ' week is now in the lead - with a massive 2 votes. Not sure that counts as additional evidence to the well-established wisdom of masses theory. In fact - I'm now rather disappointed that I share the majority opinion. I prefer to consider myself an outsider; do I aspire to drive the world's best-selling car? Certainly not. Or drink the most popular wine/beer/Scotch. Of course not. Or be seen with the latest 'hot' camera - ahm.... no. I want even seasoned gear watchers to ask what I'm carrying. Or better yet - give me a quiet nod of recognition as they realise a free thinker when they see one. Use a 4x5 underwater? Cool. And take F1 with a wet plate 8x10 - that's technique for you.

Sadly, my ordered 4x5 Ondu will simply take (patient) nudes. Not under water. And certainly not while piloting an F1 car.

[Francois]

I can just imagine an F-1 shot with a pinhole 
This is funny enough to be turned into an XDCD comic.

Just imagine, the scene:
-what's that?
-a picture of an F-1 car.
-where's the car?
-it's in there, somewhere... thing is it was too fast for the pinhole camera.
-and what's that other photo with just an odd shape at the bottom?
-it's another F-1 photo... on this one I just mounted the camera on the bonnet of the car and had it go for a spin.
-where's the scenery?
-it's somewhere in there... but the car was just going too fast for the camera to record it.


As for me, I'm still holding on to the 3rd of November... for now. It's late enough but still early enough in November to be optimistic...

[SLVR]

my address has changed. so... never?

[Late Developer]

I can just imagine an F-1 shot with a pinhole 
This is funny enough to be turned into an XDCD comic.

Just imagine, the scene:
-what's that?
-a picture of an F-1 car.
-where's the car?
-it's in there, somewhere... thing is it was too fast for the pinhole camera.
-and what's that other photo with just an odd shape at the bottom?
-it's another F-1 photo... on this one I just mounted the camera on the bonnet of the car and had it go for a spin.
-where's the scenery?
-it's somewhere in there... but the car was just going too fast for the camera to record it.


As for me, I'm still holding on to the 3rd of November... for now. It's late enough but still early enough in November to be optimistic...

If it was Jenson Button's current car, it's be razor sharp.....

[jojonas~]

my address has changed. so... never?

don't you have post forwarding over there?

[Francois]

Yeah, and if you change your address on kickstarter, it should get there...
I know its not very expensive to get mail forwarded, we had done it when my grandma passed away.
And I think it can also be done by post Canada's website too.

[limr]

I apparently share the pessimism of 5 other people because I just voted for New Year's and I'm not alone! 

[Adam Doe]

I also voted for New Year's as in my experience with backing a number of Kickstarter campaigns, most, even the best intentioned, inevitably experience some unforeseen delay.

[Ezzie]

Pessimist here too, but not because I think Elvis et co will not fulfull their obligations, they certainly will, but because I am just ridden with bad luck.

[Francois]

Well, they did have bad luck when their CNC router was damaged during transport and they had to get it replaced... but on the other hand they used that wasted time to make the shop more streamlined for easier production...

But still, I keep an optimist mindset on this one... but I expect the shipping to start in late november. I might in a week or two change my mind to 4th week november but for now, I'm sticking with 3rd week... but only for the earlybird orders like mine

[limr]

Oooh, that's right, I forgot I was an Early Bird, too! I'm too used to being a Night Owl

[SLVR]

my address has changed. so... never?

don't you have post forwarding over there?

we do!

[Francois]

If you change your address on kickstarter, there should be no problem.
And if in doubt, you can always leave Elvis and Beni a message. They answer all their mail quite rapidly.

[johan_lindgren]

Oh I would really like one of these cameras but I dont know if I can justify it 

[Francois]

Well... If you need help justifying it, we are usually experts at finding twisted ways of making getting new gear acceptable

[Ed Wenn]

Fun game, François  I'm assuming the worst too and have gone for 2016.

[Francois]

I was thinking of doing it Dutch book style but I have absolutely no idea on how to do that...

[Francois]

Well... I did change my vote.

[Francois]

I don't know if you've checked your email, but there has been a turn or events at Ondu... so I am forced to modify the game quite a bit.
Here's the message

Helo Pinholers!

Sorry for the slow response, we haven't forgotten about you! Let's explain what's been going on in our workshop lately.

You remember the all so amazing CNC machine that we got some 2 months ago, we spoke about some problems with the controller in the previous post. The controller got changed and it didn't repair the mistake that the machine was doing in random places. The service crew came here 4 times and couldn't fix the tolerance gap needed for this type of project, no matter what they tried and which expert from the company came in. All they could say was sorry, this has never happened to us. To sum things up the 0,2mm gap mistake that was happening in random directions was not enough for our cameras and the CNC will get returned on this Thursday and will not be returning. As of now the ONDU's will not be worked solely by machines but by hands, like it was originally intended.

When we approached this company to buy in first place a laser engraver, upon showing them the cameras, they claimed that their machines can do something like that no problem. We made tests ( on a different machine in their facilities ) I even went to 3 other companies that have the same machines of the same make and all said no need to ponder over the decision, go ahead and hop on the CNC train, it will make you production easier and faster. Off course it was a no-brainer when they al claim that this wonderful tool does all these things. The problem with our machine was that the components were too big for the things that we needed it to perform and the manufacturer did not take this into account when supplying it to us. He admitted his mistake, gave a full refund, but we lost months and nerves because of this.

Now looking back we realised that the initial plan that we had to make things the way we used to make them would be the way to go. We didn't start manufacturing until the previous week when it became clear in what a mess we are in and that this particular CNC is not a machine from heaven. To make up for lost time  we have expanded our workforce to include 2 other friends and off course the family joins in when things will get super busy with oiling and sanding of many parts.

The Laser cuter is going back as well, it has continuous problems and well it's just not what the paper says it is, they are both from the same manufacturer. We have ordered a new one that will be here in about 2 weeks time, but we secured a slot with a local company that has the laser in house so we can make the necessary engravings for the ONDU's.

When do we ship?

We still can not give you a 100% date but we hope that at least for the 135 pocket, 135 Pano and the 6x6 that they will be delivered before the festivities. The rest probably afterwards. We are really frustrated that this has happened to us, but there was just no way of forseeing this problem when we started the project and all decisions were made in favour of better quality of the final product and on time delivery times. We still want to give you the best possible product out there and unfortunately there is no cutting corners when it comes to woodworking.

We will make a detailed update every week from now on, so you'll be able to see how things are progressing in real time.

Thank you for your support and understanding.

Elvis & Beni

So, the games are up once more... I've added new dates.

[Sandeha Lynch]

"there is no cutting corners when it comes to woodworking"

Under the circumstances that's a very unfortunate metaphor, but they certainly have my sympathy.  Who knows how many start-ups get shafted and stuffed by some supplier who just wants to make a sale of their 'technology'.

[Ezzie]

One thing I do know, they will deliver. And a very nice product too. I have an original Kickstarter version of the 6x6. It has a few teething issues, but is perfectly usable. Having handled a few later commercial versions; I can say they have solved most, if not all, of these issues. Like Fuji, they actually listen to their customers. I am very much looking forward to the latest evolution of their product(s), not matter the delay.

[Francois]

Like I always say to the mechanic who works on my car: take your time and do good work.
So far, this always worked wonders for me and hasn't cost me a penny more even if they work by the clock.

[Francois]

Some news again... and I had to reset the game once more!
Here's the news I got in the mail this morning

A three week, weekly update.
Posted by ONDU

Dear soon to be photon catchers!

We know it was a long "week", but that doesn't mean we are doing nothing, slowly but surely things are coming together.

I'd like to give you a quick overview of what has been going on in here in the last week. First of, we got rid of the CNC machine. Needles to say it was again an undertaking, even more than getting it in, this time accompanied by gale force winds. Around 12 hours after the machine left the workshop we got our first snow fall, which means it was the last possible day for it to leave before next year. ( We live not so close to the civilised world up here, and the truck that makes the moves will not be able to get here any time soon ) Since we're without a CNC and there's absolutely no time to get a new one at least not for the Kickstarter batch of cameras, we needed to get quite a few more machines to make things a bit faster around in the workshop.

We traveled around 2200km to Germany and back to get a machine that has been on ONDU's wishlist for quite some time, I'm talking about a 25 year old, still working flawlessly, table saw from a company called ULMIA . It's a pure wonder of old school German engineering, the cuts this machine is able to make even with a relatively normal blade is something we've never seen before. The machine while old regarding how long the machines that are made today last, is almost mint condition. Highly recommended table saw for fine woodworking.
The new old ULMIA Tablesaw and the polishing machine
The new old ULMIA Tablesaw and the polishing machine

Next we got a heavy duty industrial VOLPATO Lasm belt sander, that has a work table from both sides so that 2 people can work at the same time on one machine. This was a big bottle neck in the production of the ONDU's that require a lot of sanding, both hand and mechanical. To accompany the more powerful sander we needed to upgrade the vacuum system for the workshop. For these two machines we visited our neighbouring Italy. It took three trips to get the machines to the workshop. Needles to say, these are specialist machines they are rarely available off the shelf and buying them eats up time like nothing.
Volpato belt sander still waiting for the custom made belts, in the back ground you can see the four router stations
Volpato belt sander still waiting for the custom made belts, in the back ground you can see the four router stations

To accommodate the loss of the CNC center, a dowel drilling machine also had to be ordered, here we got a bit lucky and managed to get a refurbished machine from the company that makes them. They delivered it in 2 weeks time, instead of the regular 2 months waiting time to build the machine from scratch. This machines allows us to make fine adjustments when drilling the holes for the winding pins and magnets. It has absolutely no wobble or play when drilling, insuring all holes are correct and the magnets don't fall out. It also has the possibility to change drilling heads that were designed especially for our needs, so we can drill 2 or 3 holes at once. The drive mechanism on this machine is electric while the movement is air piston actuated, this means that a stronger semi industrial compressor is required to make the machine tick. This will get installed on this Thursday and it's also a German, Kaeser piston compressor. They just make good stuff.
Wood waiting to get drilled on the dowel machine
Wood waiting to get drilled on the dowel machine

We don't want you to think we were just buying new machines, actually, some work was done on them. We managed to cut and make joints for the 135 pocket and the 135 Panoramics ONDU's. When we make the cameras we first make the frame of the camera. It involves four pieces cut to size, eight 2mm deep slot  joints, four 1mm joints to accommodate the film frame, 12holes, gluing and another two slots. One for the front plate and one for opening the backplate. The carpenter that prepares the wood misunderstood which pieces we need first and made us all the material for the backplates that actually come last in the working process. So now while we are on wait for the other frame material we went ahead and made all the winding pins and shutters. There are 10 single operations on the woodworking machines to make a single shutter. That means just the shutter goes trough our hands at least 10 times before it's worthy of getting that prime spot on the camera front, not counting the inserting of the magnet and shutter holder that holds the shutter in place and final oiling.
Shutters for the 6x12 before final sanding
Shutters for the 6x12 before final sanding

The insides of the 6x9 and the 6x12 have been simplified to make use of the laser cutter that has an amazing tolerance and great cutting speed. The ONDU mk 2 will not have any plywood parts inside the camera, instead it will get replaced by Ash that gets laser cut to act as a film frame and spool guide in one.
Winding knobs ( still need oiling ) now have nests that keep them away from dust and scratches.
Winding knobs ( still need oiling ) now have nests that keep them away from dust and scratches.

All the pinholes have arrived finally, mr. Christian Weigang and his team from Germany ( ONDU's are starting to become German it seems ) calculated the pinhole sizes for all the cameras after months of testing the prototypes that I've sent them. The results we think will amaze you. Like mentioned in the campaign the pinhole is calculated not just by the standard focal length to film size ratio but also the field of view the camera is covering. Better exposures here we come.
Box of gold, smallest yet most crucial part of the camera!
Box of gold, smallest yet most crucial part of the camera!

We plan on making the holes for the frame as soon as the compressor comes by the end of this week. The upcoming weekend will be a drilling job, and on Monday we hope that the first frames will be glued in the press.

We also received the spirit levelling bulbs and also the fabric that will line the inside of the camera the so called film frame, to prevent scratches on the film while advancing to the next frame.

All this being said, we are realising more and more that all the hassle with the CNC has cost us too much time to be able to turn out any ONDU's before Christmas comes. We had a similar experience in our first Kickstarter campaign, when we rushed like crazy the last month, to get the cameras to at least some of you in time. Because of all the rush we made very bad and costly mistakes at the very end, resulting in a product that worked fine but we know it could be a tiny bit better at least for ONDU MK1 standards.

We know that for quite a bit of the ONDU supporters here were planing to give this little wonder as a gift for the holidays, and to be honest we are gut wrenched by the thought of them not getting there in time. We hope you accept our apologies and we want you to know that in the end when you receive your MK 2's you will know why we the wait was a bit longer. Together none the less, we will make a camera to last for generations.

We'll be back in a week now for sure, give or take a day this time.

Bear with us just a bit longer and thank you for your support!

Elvis & Beni

So what will be your choice this time?

[Kayos]

Seems we missed February but I filled in my delivery survey this morning

I'm hoping it arrives soon

[Ed Wenn]

Yep, the same for me; order form filled out and submitted  . There should be a tasty little 5x4 pinhole on its way to me in the next few days/weeks/months.

Scanning through the "add ons/upgrades" listing on their order form, I was bitterly disappointed not to find an item called "Paul Mitchell". Having a Paul Mitchell add-on would have made all the difference to a pinhole idiot such as myself. I must make a point of booking my own after-market Paul Mitchell when I first take the Ondu out for a spin.

[Paul Mitchell]

Yep, the same for me; order form filled out and submitted  . There should be a tasty little 5x4 pinhole on its way to me in the next few days/weeks/months.

Scanning through the "add ons/upgrades" listing on their order form, I was bitterly disappointed not to find an item called "Paul Mitchell". Having a Paul Mitchell add-on would have made all the difference to a pinhole idiot such as myself. I must make a point of booking my own after-market Paul Mitchell when I first take the Ondu out for a spin.

They couldn't afford me Ed Always available for weddings and bar mitzvah's for my fellow FW's though...

[Ed Wenn]

 

Good to hear, Paul!!

[Francois]

 

[SLVR]

filled out mine as well. Should be seeing a 6x6 sometime this year should be a good change of pace for me.

[Francois]

I just signed mine too...

And for those who wonder about the survey, I just reset it once more

[Jack Johnson]

I would totally buy the Paul Mitchell add-on.

[Sandeha Lynch]

I would totally buy the Paul Mitchell add-on.

Assuming it's not a compositional filter, I'm thinking it might be a very patient timing device.

Which would be useful. 

[Adam Doe]

Just signed my survey as well. Hoping to shoot with it on WWPPD.

[gothamtomato]

I'm still waiting for my new Type 55 film from Kickstarter. I cannot even say how much it pisses me off that that jerk has been selling it for so long yet does not send it to those of us who funded his little venture.

[Francois]

Maybe a complaint to kickstarter about this is in order?