Topic: Workhorse 135 camera?

[jojonas~]

as I said in another thread:

...I've been lusting for a nikon fm2 as something with a manual shutter and a lit meter. something like a workhorse...

I've got my Minolta SRT-101 but it has the needle and the times I use it I have a hard time reading it in the dark...
ofcourse I've got cameras like the Minolta XD and some Chinon but as long as there is an aperture mode I seem to cling to it.

so, any equivalent cameras to the fm2 in this regard? manual shutter, lit meter?

[Francois]

So you're looking into the pre-Maxxum Minoltas...
If you could have an LED indicator (red-green +- thing) you'd be in business.

The X500/X570 could be a nice choice.

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Minolta#Manual_focus_SLR_.2835mm.29

[jharr]

Electro 35! Aperture priority, lit meter and 1.7 lens. Good for dark shooting.

[Late Developer]

An FM2(n) is a fantastic piece of kit.  I also have a very soft spot for Olympus OM1(n) and OM2(n) bodies as they are beautiful in the hand.  The only drawback is getting hold of some of their better lenses - whereas Nikon lenses are plentiful and relatively cheaper, in my experience in the UK.

I can't comment on the Minoltas as, though I've used one occasionally, I've never owned one.  They do have a good reputation, though.

Pentax K1000, MX, ME (Super) are well regarded.  The LX is very nice but a good one is expensive.

I'm less of a Canon fan - though the AE1 (Program) and T90 have good reputations.  The A1 is a good camera but I had one die on me during a paid shoot many years ago and I've never been tempted since (but that's just my own personal prejudice as I know a lot of people love them).

I suppose choice will be budget-driven and whatever you can get locally or off the web. 

[Hungry Mike]

I'll second the Olympus OM 1 & 2. I love those and I really like the character of the lenses. Even the cheap OM lenses are good. I picked up a second hand Pentax MX in the summer with the intent to resell it but after using it I've really grown to love it. Definitely a keeper. If you're looking for MD mounts, I have a pair of Minoltas - 500 & X-700 I haven't connected with them but they are nice as well (they are available for sale or trade BTW).

[mcduff]

Mike and I feed off each other's addictions. I love the OM stuff and still regularly use my original OM-2 from 1980 or so.

I also like the Pentax stuff. I think the k1000 is a tank. I can't speak to the nikons - hence my questing for info. Please do not take my ignorance about them as speaking against them. I generally like the smaller but tough cameras which is why I like OM and Pentax. I do understand that that the nikon rep for durability is deserved.

[Hungry Mike]

Mike and I feed off each other's addictions.

Ha! 

Couple more... My wife uses the Yashica FX7 & Nikon EM. The FX7 is a nice camera though the leatherette is very cheap and needs to be replaced. It uses the C/Y mount - so you can get the cheap Yashica lenses or the more expensive but awesome Zeiss lenses. The Nikon EM is a budget line model which was paired with the E series F mount lenses. I like the EM as it is small, similar in (roughly) size to the OM & MX. I like how it handles personally. Though there is a lot of plastic on the body I believe that the frame is all metal.

[limr]

The K1000 definitely is a tank and will probably still work even after the apocalypse. Mine toppled off a stone wall and landed on concrete and all that happened was a small crack in the top plate. I still had it replaced because of the possibility of it eventually developing a light leak, but the operation of the camera wasn't affected one iota.

But it doesn't have a lit meter. It's also got a needle on the right side of the viewfinder. I don't find it difficult to read, but if the light is low enough, it will just plant itself in the middle and not work at all.

[Sandeha Lynch]

ME Super for a lit meter and aperture priority/manual option.  Not to mention the range of lenses.

And it's lighter than a tank.

[jojonas~]

Thanks guys! I think I may have got what I wanted from asking this, the Pentax MX seems like a good candidate. about the pricerange as the fm2 localy though but I've got two k-mount lenses already.

I should mention that in SLRs I have: Minolta SRT-101, Minolta XD, Minolta X-700, Minolta 505si, Olympus OM-2, Olympus OM-4, Chinon CE-4 and Pentax MV.

it nagged me that the only one that I could pick up without worry that the battery would not have enough juice was the Minolta SRT-101. it's a wonderful camera and I've used it both happily with the onboard meter and with a separate one. though the needle was not always for me. and I've enjoyed it in the sense that it did not have any kind of automatics built in -something that I enjoy much with my medium format cameras but sorely miss on my 135-SLRs.

[mcduff]

You are looking for a fairly unique feature set of cameras that are straddling the old school all-mechanical operation with the new "space age" electronic display. You are right that a few suggestions (eg k1000 OM-1) don't fit the bill as they have an analog metre.

I haven't used mike's mx but I know he really likes it. So it sounds like it and an FM variant are the obvious pics.

OT: I understand your desire for a camera that does not require juice (in case a "batterpocalypse" happens haha). And also understand how an electronic display can help in low light situations. But I have 3 caveats to that. 1) I have seen some LED displays that are lousy in low light. An example is the poor OM10. It is just a row of led dots with speeds printed in small type beside them. I find my match-needle metre of my OM-1 or OM-2 easier to read in any setting. 2) a lot of folks find analog displays easier to read (hence their popularity even when driven by digital sources).  3) I think analog metres will last longer and are easier to repair than digital displays ( based on personal experience).

[Sandeha Lynch]

Swings? Or roundabouts?  I have both an MX and an ME Super and I generally prefer the MX as I know it's inherently more reliable and it has a better/clearer viewfinder than the MEs.  No aperture priority on the MX and the exposure is a numbered disk with five LEDs indicating if it's above, below, way off, or spot on.  I think the ME can give you the information faster, and you have that AE option, but the manual exposure MX is a better looker.   

[jojonas~]

You are looking for a fairly unique feature set of cameras that are straddling the old school all-mechanical operation with the new "space age" electronic display. You are right that a few suggestions (eg k1000 OM-1) don't fit the bill as they have an analog metre.

I haven't used mike's mx but I know he really likes it. So it sounds like it and an FM variant are the obvious pics.

OT: I understand your desire for a camera that does not require juice (in case a "batterpocalypse" happens haha). And also understand how an electronic display can help in low light situations. But I have 3 caveats to that. 1) I have seen some LED displays that are lousy in low light. An example is the poor OM10. It is just a row of led dots with speeds printed in small type beside them. I find my match-needle metre of my OM-1 or OM-2 easier to read in any setting. 2) a lot of folks find analog displays easier to read (hence their popularity even when driven by digital sources).  3) I think analog metres will last longer and are easier to repair than digital displays ( based on personal experience).

1: I wholly understand your point. My Minolta XD acts the same way with red dots on a scale of nothingness. using something like that would be easier if the camera has the ability to lock exposure so one could change the view to make the shutterspeeds readable.
2. I'm def a fan of the ring and needle design of my Minolta SRT and the OM-2 ain't bad either in both manual and automatic mode -when they're readable
3. that's interesting and probably true. old liquid crystal displays seem to leak and fiddling with a dozen diodes and inner circuit boards... agh, makes me think of my dear Contax RTS (may it rest in piece).
though with a manual shutter, atleast the camera can still take pictures, eh?

[Rafael Morales]

The Kiev 19m uses LEDs. I have  one and is pretty good. But I love the FM2. 

[Francois]

For me, the only good thing about the Pentax K is the sheer number of lenses available for them. This drives the prices down quite a bit.
Also, the lenses are also still compatible with their most recent cameras.

[jojonas~]

Swings? Or roundabouts?  I have both an MX and an ME Super and I generally prefer the MX as I know it's inherently more reliable and it has a better/clearer viewfinder than the MEs.  No aperture priority on the MX and the exposure is a numbered disk with five LEDs indicating if it's above, below, way off, or spot on.  I think the ME can give you the information faster, and you have that AE option, but the manual exposure MX is a better looker.   

yes the finder seems nice~

[jojonas~]

The Kiev 19m uses LEDs. I have  one and is pretty good. But I love the FM2. 

a kiev, huh? k-mounted even?? it kind of reminds me of those modern cosina made slrs. hm... I guess they fit the bill also.

[astrobeck]

another vote for Pentax here!
My K1000 was set up for an all night star trails image and about 3 hours into the exposure the wind began to howl and it blew over and smacked the ground..( I was sleeping when this happened) the camera kept exposing so I have an image with 2 tracks of star trails on it....

I'm totally biased as I've had this camera since 1985 when I bought it new and it's been everywhere!

[forceusr]

Electro 35! Aperture priority, lit meter and 1.7 lens. Good for dark shooting.

I love my Electro 35 GSN.

[johnha]

For those not familiar with the MX finder (shown above), the top and bottom LEDs are red (+/- 1 stop or more), the 2nd & 4th are amber (+/- half to one stop) and the middle one is green (within half a stop) of 'correct'. Occasionally you may get both green and amber flickering.

The aperture read-out is projected from the lens aperture ring, this is only guaranteed to work with Pentax branded lenses (others may have the numbers in a slightly different position). The Tamron ADII 'Pentax KM' mount has a second aperture ring scale in the correct position to project into the finder.

The MX is a great camera, but for a 'bomb-proof' and carefree camera I'd probably prefer to use my tatty K1000 in some situations.

John.

[Rafael Morales]

kiev 19m has nikon mount.

[John Robison]

For value to cost ratio I was able to pick up a Sears KS500 (Ricoh KR5) with it's 50mm f2 Sears (Rikenon) lens for the latte price of $5, it even had a good meter battery in it. This may not be a typical price and I doubt it has the durability of a K1000 but so far it's been fine and if it breaks I can save the lens and toss the body.

[Urban Hafner]

For all the Olympus OM lovers of you, what's the difference between the 1 and the 2 (and/or the N versions)? I don't have a manual focus SLR (at least one with aperture priority) right now and that's a system I haven't tried, yet.

[Bryan]

According to Camerapedia the OM-2 has aperture priority and manual, the OM-1 is manual only.  It sounds like the OM-2 also meters light differently than the OM-1.  I really enjoy using my OM-1, it's a great camera.

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Olympus_OM-1/2/3/4

[mcduff]

I really like both but I prob use the OM-2 more. The aperture priority is quite good. At the time the light metre was quite advanced. It reads off the shutter curtain or when the exposure starts reads off the film and can adjust the exposure on the fly. One benefit of the OM-1 is that it is all mechanical whereas the OM-2 only has one mechanical speed (125 I think) if the battery is dead. I have truly abused my OM-2 and it has stood beside me since 1980 or so. It really had been "run hard and put away wet" (for all you cowboys out there). In the 35 years is had had a couple of CLAs but never had it stopped working (just needing cleaning).

The OM-1 was originally called the m-1 as an intentional reference to Leica stuff. This was not just trying to cash in, but the designer Matani (all the OM fanboys now reverently bow) wanted to make the Leica of the slr world. BTW there are olympus m-1 cameras out there. It is my understanding that they really are just for collectors as there were important internal improvements between the m1 and OM-1.

[Andrej K]

Urban, If you are considering OM cameras, why not grab the OM4? The integrated (and VERY clever) spot meter is an Excellent feature - and the single reason why I am sort of hoping that one day an OM4 will again lay in my hands.

[mcduff]

I have never played with a OM-3 or a 4, but I understand the early versions (non-T) were battery pigs. But this is all Internet hearsay Are their users that can corroborate?

[jojonas~]

okay gang, I found another candidate in the Chinon CM-series. I've got a CE-4 so I know roughly what they're like and they don't go for much around here so I think I'll go with that when I have an income again

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Chinon_CM-4[/url]]The CM-4 is a quite simple fully manual SLR from Chinon. It's shutter speeds go up to 1/1000.

All the user has are 3 LED's. A green one for correct exposure, and two red ones which indicate over or under exposure. These LED's are placed outside the viewfinder, but it is possible to see them while focusing. Choosing either a different aperture or shutter speed will have an instant effect on the LED's.

It takes 2 LR44 batteries and will function with all Pentax K-mount lenses. Shown here with the Chinon 50mm f/1.9 standard lens, which gets quite good reviews!

sounds good to me

I have never played with a OM-3 or a 4, but I understand the early versions (non-T) were battery pigs. But this is all Internet hearsay Are their users that can corroborate?

I have a early OM-4 and it seems fine concerning battery drainage. but it did have to go to the camera doctor for a tiny spring that didn't reset in the manner it was supposed to. they're a clockwork and electrical marvel on the inside it seems! not your avarage kiev
but yeah, it's back now and working fine. when not in use, I put the shutterspeed to the mechanical speed. I've read that that'll help with battery life.

[Late Developer]

The OM3 only needs a battery for the meter.  As I understand it, the rest is purely mechanical. 

[jojonas~]

The OM3 only needs a battery for the meter.  As I understand it, the rest is purely mechanical. 

true. and a fine camera I gather from using the OM-4. the spot meter is nice. though I dunno about the price. I could go for a m5 with those pennies. and we haven't even mentioned the ti model :O

[Ezzie]

It ain't light, and it ain't small. But I rather like the Canon EF. Works on all normal speeds without batteries. Shutter priority if you prefer, otherwise fully manual. Lovely shutter speed dial overhanging the front can be adjusted with one finger whilst camera up to the eye. No nonsense finder, quite big and bright. Very well built, and very smooth. Winder and shutter release on par with my Leica M4-2. Shutter speed dial even better. FD (and FL) glass is good and plentiful, not to mention cheap. I have a good mind to get a second body.

Biggest let down is the meter read-out cannot be lit up.

[gothamtomato]

I have an FM and an FM2. I love them both. They are both faithful work horses. My FM just had its 36th birthday. I always give it a new battery for its birthday.

[mcduff]

Jojonas, as you already have some OM gear I wanted to add some comments about an OM body that might fit the bill that I think one should avoid. The OM-20 (or OM-G) has a pretty good lit viewfinder (unlike the OM-10) and is an all-round fine camera when it works, but I generally discourage the "double digit" OM bodies, as they are not as durable as the OM-1 thru 4. I have tried quite a few of the double digit OM bodies and I am not sure if its because they were more consumer oriented, but I don't think they have aged as well.

For any out there that have and love an OM-G, this is not intended as a slag. As I said I like the camera, but I have had some reliability issues.

[jojonas~]

eirik: does the EF have the meter on the side of the viewfinder like old f-1 where it is backlit by a window of the top of the housing?
if so, you could tape a tritium keyring to it I've actually seen someone tape a keyring on a rangefinder camera to see the framelines more clearly. kind of like the old nikon illuminator

https://www.cameraquest.com/sp.htm

[Ezzie]

It doesn't have an illumination window Jonas. I've done something similar on my Leica at times.