Author Topic: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?  (Read 11282 times)

oldwino

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Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« on: August 18, 2014, 06:31:41 PM »
I absolutely love the quality of the photos from my Bronica S2A, but the camera itself is rather large, rather loud, and really attracts attention to itself.

Is there a "stealthy" 120 film camera - smaller, lighter, quieter - which could offer comparable image quality. I prefer 6x6, but larger would be ok too. I don't really get along with 6x4.5. 

I'm curious to learn everyone's opinions!
Wandering the Earth with a Leica IIIc, Leica M2, Mamiya-Six, and a bunch of old lenses...

02Pilot

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2014, 06:59:58 PM »
A small non-RF folding camera is about as small and unobtrusive as you're going to get in MF. I love my tiny Voigtländer Perkeo II (for image samples from it, see my recent thread in the Photo Essays section), but there are many other options out there that aren't much bigger.
Any man who can see what he wants to get on film will usually find some way to get it;
and a man who thinks his equipment is going to see for him is not going to get much of anything.


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imagesfrugales

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2014, 07:16:50 PM »
Funny, funny, I just red the topic and immediately thought of the Perkeo II or - even smaller - the pre-war Bessa 66. The latter with uncoated Skopar is a nice one. The folding finder of the  Bessa 66 with 2 lens elements is by far better than all small peephole finders that were standard on post-war cameras. I even made a model shooting with the Bessa 66:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/4972512552/in/photostream
An accessory rangefinder is very useful, also Voigtlander recommend by me, easy to calibrate with a simple knob. The Perkeo with coated Color-Skopar is less prone to flare. These Skopars are fine, fine lenses, at least on Tessar level, if not better.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 07:20:50 PM by imagesfrugales »

Aksel

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2014, 08:03:17 PM »
As we are on a roll for old goodies - I would not be without my Super Ikonta 534/16. Very compact and as most of the cameras of that type no lug straps on the body. 

Of more modern stuff, Mamiya 6 - you just can´t go wrong, 7II? Yea! Both noisy compared with the GF670 / Bessa III 667 they are literally stealth but not as handy in use. The Rolleiflex are also quiet compared to a Leica (if that´s usable as a reference)
My life with barn door sized mirrors are gone  ;)
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02Pilot

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 09:07:17 PM »
Zeiss Ikon Cortina ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Zeiss-Ikon-Contina-/371106561541?pt=UK_Photography_VintageCameras_SM&hash=item5667acbe05

I'm pretty sure that's a 35mm model, judging by the shape of the VF and the 45mm lens (but I could be wrong - I can't keep all the Zeiss models straight).
Any man who can see what he wants to get on film will usually find some way to get it;
and a man who thinks his equipment is going to see for him is not going to get much of anything.


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gsgary

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 09:08:17 PM »
Cortina is 120

gsgary

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 09:11:14 PM »
Your right i got the wrong camera :-[

Late Developer

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 09:14:20 PM »
A twin lens reflex camera is often quite stealthy as may people have no idea how they work and they don't twig that looking down into a box might actually mean you're looking right at them. They also often have excellent lenses.
"An ounce of perception. A pound of obscure".

gsgary

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« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 09:23:39 PM by gsgary »

Francois

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2014, 09:23:14 PM »
The Zeiss Nettar is pretty small too and its lens is pretty good. Best of all, it shoots square.
Francois

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jharr

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2014, 09:36:20 PM »
the pre-war Bessa 66. The latter with uncoated Skopar is a nice one. The folding finder of the  Bessa 66 with 2 lens elements is by far better than all small peephole finders that were standard on post-war cameras. I even made a model shooting with the Bessa 66:

I have a pre-war Bessa 6x9 and can attest to the quality of the lens, clarity of the VF and quietness of operation. It remains one of my favorite MF cameras, but if you are shooting street, you might want something more facile to operate and a waist level finder is really nice. TLRs draw too much attention to be considered 'stealth'. Pentacon Six and Kiev 66 are probably on the big/loud end of the stealth spectrum. An Isolette or Ikonta are probably going to make the short list for me.
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SLVR

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2014, 01:11:38 AM »
Hasselblad SWC.

oldwino

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2014, 04:38:36 AM »
Hasselblad SWC.

Oh yeah... I've thought of that...
Wandering the Earth with a Leica IIIc, Leica M2, Mamiya-Six, and a bunch of old lenses...

oldwino

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2014, 04:41:16 AM »
Besides the SWC (a dream camera for me), the consensus seems to be a folder.

Anyone have any experience with the fuji gf670 or voigtlander bessa iii?  Possibly the last 120 film cameras to be made?
Wandering the Earth with a Leica IIIc, Leica M2, Mamiya-Six, and a bunch of old lenses...

imagesfrugales

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2014, 05:36:28 AM »
PS: size of the Bessa 66 compared with an Olympus XA

bessa 66 by imagesfrugales, on Flickr
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 05:38:23 AM by imagesfrugales »

Indofunk

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2014, 05:45:29 AM »
PS: size of the Bessa 66 compared with an Olympus XA

bessa 66 by imagesfrugales, on Flickr

Wow! Impressive!

Pete_R

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2014, 07:17:22 AM »
Besides the SWC (a dream camera for me), the consensus seems to be a folder.

Anyone have any experience with the fuji gf670 or voigtlander bessa iii?  Possibly the last 120 film cameras to be made?

I've used one. Compact it isn't.
"I've been loading films into spirals for so many years I can almost do it with my eyes shut."

Sandeha Lynch

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2014, 07:34:24 AM »
How much corner resolution do you need when you say "quality" with reference to 6x6? 

Triplet lens, the average folder - not bad.  Four element Tessar type, (Skopar, Solinar, etc) the best folders - pretty good.  Multi-element Planar type, Mamiya 6 and the better TLRs - as good as you can get.

If you want something comparable to your Bronica when shooting wide open, then you're looking at a Planar Rolleiflex or the Mamiya 6.  Not a lot elsewise.

Aksel

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 08:33:36 AM »
Besides the SWC (a dream camera for me), the consensus seems to be a folder.

Anyone have any experience with the fuji gf670 or voigtlander bessa iii?  Possibly the last 120 film cameras to be made?


I have and use the gf670, I have fired the shutter without knowing several times. The mechanical noise of pressing the shutter release is higher then the shutter itself, you can only hear it if you hold your breath. Not impressive choice of materials in the body, buty good enough. Amazing lens - up there with the Mamiya 6 / 7 but a bit slower in use. Not Ideal for street photography, but the finder is really good, super easy to focus. I`m lusting for a Plaubel 67, but that´s GAS I guess, just have to try everything to find out what I like the most.
Prosopopoeia, with a camera

gothamtomato

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 01:47:59 PM »
What about the Mamiya 6? I know a photographer who carries one around in his jacket pocket all the time.

The SWC is fun but I'd never describe it as stealthy. I have seen a couple of photographers who use it for street shooting but I have absolutly no idea how they do it!

Paul Mitchell

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2014, 02:15:41 PM »
I also reply as a previous GF670 owner and unless you have handled one you don't realise how big it is... it doesn't have the nickname the Texas Leica for nothing. It was indeed a virtually silent camera and the lens was the dogs dangly bits, unfortunately for me i just couldn't get on with the 67 format as it was neither here nor there. My current stealth MF camera is the Super Isolette, my pocket rocket!

Paul
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Jack Johnson

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2014, 02:27:38 PM »
PS: size of the Bessa 66 compared with an Olympus XA

bessa 66 by imagesfrugales, on Flickr

Wow, your Bessa is in fantastic shape.

John Robison

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2014, 03:06:23 PM »
Lovely thread.
I have a little Zeiss Nettar but it's the f6.3 version so too slow for anything but outdoor in daylight. It would be nice to get the better model with a f4.5 lens and shutter with slow speeds. If you push the film to 1600 a person just might get away with moderate bright indoor light.

At least it was cheap, only $25, the price for a Holga. 

Aksel

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2014, 07:01:52 PM »
I also reply as a previous GF670 owner and unless you have handled one you don't realise how big it is... it doesn't have the nickname the Texas Leica for nothing. It was indeed a virtually silent camera and the lens was the dogs dangly bits, unfortunately for me i just couldn't get on with the 67 format as it was neither here nor there. My current stealth MF camera is the Super Isolette, my pocket rocket!

Paul


I`m speaking about this collapsible beast, not the original Texas Leica  ;)
The Mamiya 6 is Super nice. Had a roll trough mine today, and I`m keeping it and selling the 7II.
Only downside is having to live without the 43mm - it´s the best wide angle I ever laid my hands on.

Prosopopoeia, with a camera

hookstrapped

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2014, 04:13:24 PM »
As a Mamiya 6 user/lover, I'd also recommend it.  All back, relatively slim, super quiet leaf shutters, handles beautifully so no awkward movements calling attention to yourself.


Francois

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2014, 08:52:07 PM »
Where's Ed when we need someone to suggest a Coronet Commander with the internal mask hacked-off  ;D
Francois

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oldwino

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2014, 12:19:25 AM »
Wandering the Earth with a Leica IIIc, Leica M2, Mamiya-Six, and a bunch of old lenses...

Flippy

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #29 on: September 11, 2014, 03:20:53 PM »
The Super Ricohflex is about the smallest "Serious" TLR out there - indeed smaller than many 35mm SLRs with a lens mounted. The lens is a triplet but still very good. There are a few flickr "famous" photogs who have done really excellent work with these simple cameras.  I would avoid the earlier Ricohflex models (VII, VIII, etc.) as they have a simpler/inaccurate shutter that often doesn't work properly, and the grease in the helicals is often rock hard on these older ones. Also look for a Super Ricohflex with the auto-stop option (automatic film counter) as this makes using the camera much more friendly.

I'm currently using a Reflekta II which is only a few millimeters taller than the Ricoh. I like this cameras very much, but expect the mirror to need replacement. Instead of an auto-stop, this camera has double exposure prevention - which is nice, but not as useful.

Smaller than either, the Lubitels. But I was not impressed by the lens on the one I had. Others however seem to have better luck. Variable quality I guess.

rotarysmp

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #30 on: September 12, 2014, 10:20:49 PM »
What about Fujis GA645? Looks like any other plastic point and shot.

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/ga645.html
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jojonas~

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #31 on: September 12, 2014, 10:31:34 PM »
What about Fujis GA645? Looks like any other plastic point and shot.

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/ga645.html
yeah, just a tiny bit bigger ;)
/jonas

Dave Elden

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Re: Stealthy Medium Format Camera?
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2014, 11:11:57 PM »
I absolutely love the quality of the photos from my Bronica S2A, but the camera itself is rather large, rather loud, and really attracts attention to itself.

Is there a "stealthy" 120 film camera - smaller, lighter, quieter - which could offer comparable image quality. I prefer 6x6, but larger would be ok too. I don't really get along with 6x4.5. 

I'm curious to learn everyone's opinions!
Mamiya 6 all the way. Have one and like it for a 6x6 travel camera. Lately have been using a Bronica RF645 which I found surprisingly easy to get used to.

Dave.