Topic: New Lomo Instant Kickstarter Project

[SLVR]

It seems lomography is really leaning on the kickstarter community to get it's products into fruition.

I was checking out flickr this morning and saw some new posts from lomo. it appears they have a new instax mini camera in the works.

http://microsites.lomography.com/lomo-instant-camera/

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/lomography/the-lomoinstant-camera

Thoughts?

[Chalky]

first thoughts are that I love instant and anything that keeps it alive is damn awesome!

second thoughts are please let them build something well for a change - apparently the belair instant back is ropey at best and most of their stuff I have had has been of debatable quality.

off to have a look now - good on them for continuing to build film based stuff.

let the lomo love/ hate debate begin!

[Francois]

I really don't quite know what to make of it...
The price of the kickstarters seems reasonable and the camera does offer some features that the Instax mini definitely lacks.
I guess it's going to all come down to the lens quality.
Instax film is already a bit expensive... but somehow I'm tempted...

[John Robison]

For  Instax Mini? That would lose me right there. The Instax Wide perhaps, the Mini is just too small an image area. I would like to hack a 105mm f4.5 Kodak lens & shutter from a 6X9 folder on to a Instax Wide camera. The lens should cover and with front cell focusing to 3 feet you would not have to worry about rigging a focusing helical. 

[AJShepherd]

It looks like a veritable frankencamera put together out of bits they already do, and it's Instax Mini?
I think if I was going to shoot that I'd just buy one of the Instax cameras already out.

I'm kind of surprised they don't go for something to shoot Impossible Project film. I'd be more interested in that than in this!

[Francois]

Well, for me the good points are that you can turn off the flash completely, it has long exposure capability and a pretty wide aperture.

The bad points are the fixed shutter speed, and the fact that when you read closely, it's not an "interchangeable lens camera" but a camera with lens adapters.

[Late Developer]

"The Most Creative Camera In The World"........??

I'd better get two, then, eh?? 

Since when did building a multi-coloured plastic box that takes a variety of lens adapters and shoots someone else's film qualify for such high (self) praise?  Good luck to them but, as they've already exceeded their $100k target by a fair margin, they won't be needing my money.

[Ezzie]

Well, it's cheaper than what I had to pay for a Mini 50s, which my children have great fun using. Do I need one? Would I rather have the Mini 90? Not sure of either. I think the San Remo version looks sweet, reminds me of a Land Camera 110A, folded up. Maybe my wife needs one......

[Francois]

This has got to be one of the fastest kickstarters ever!
They're already over 132,000$... insane.

But I must admit that it looks relatively good. I think it's going to turn out to be a real pain in the gazoo for Fuji and their expensive Neo Classic!
The only pet peeve I have about it is the shutter button design. Great for vertical shots but probably quite lousy for horizontal ones.

[tkmedia]

needs more love for wide.

[limr]

Well, crap. It's got just enough that the Fuji Instax doesn't have to make it kind of interesting.

But.
1) I don't like that it sucks you into buying all the accessories to start getting some of those perks. I know, that's essentially the Lomo business model, and if that model helps it stay afloat and helps keep film alive, then fine. But I don't need to feed it.

2) I agree with tkmedia: needs more love for the wide.

3) $79 is already more than I'm willing to pay for the camera.

4) I'm already forking over cash money (yo) for the peel apart and Instax wide film and I'm not going to add the Mini film to that list.

5) I still love my Land Camera 100 far too much and would rather put my time, energy, and money towards that.

So. I take a pass on this one.

[minicoop1985]

Manual on an instant camera is quite intriguing. I've never used an instant camera (go ahead and flame away-do your worst) even though I've owned dozens of Polaroids, but I will say that given the quality of every Lomography product I've ever handled... this isn't going to be my first. I worry that this is more of a fashion statement than a serious camera. Oh well, I'll find my first experience with instant someday.

[Cadha13]

After not really using my Minolta Instant Pro, manual features on a integral print camera is fairly rare.

I just put in a pledge just to have one, and really wanted to use a Fuji integral camera with more manual functions. Also, it doesn't look like a Fuji camera you can find at any super store but can get film for it.

I have my more serious cameras, I was looking for one that I can use at events, and don't have to worry about peeling or using Impossible film and waiting for 30 minutes.

It'd be my first Lomo product, and I can't wait to use it along with the New55 film next year. 

[Francois]

It'd be my first Lomo product,

Well you know, there's always a first

[Chalky]

and its not fully manual is it? more that it allows some tweaking of aperature etc?

[Francois]

Yep, while the shutter speed is the traditional 1/125-B type, the aperture is user controlled.
The auto flash probably works at a fixed aperture since it uses a sensor. Manual flash is also just that.

[mcduff]

Francois I don't really think fuji will mind if it takes sales away from their cameras. As they are the sole instax film provider,  they would not mind if lots of folks were making (and selling lots of) compatible cameras ;-)

Re: frankencamera comment - it sure seems huge compared to the fuji cameras. Maybe that is just how it is shot in the photos, or its clunky shape makes it look bigger. I would not put it past lomo for them to think big and clunky = fun. Perhaps they want it to look more like the older land cameras and have scaled it to be disproportionate to the size of its "mini" film size.

[Francois]

Few people know this but the camera is packed full of complex electronics to track users in an attempt to take over the world!
MuHaHaHa! (evil villain laugh track) 

[limr]

Few people know this but the camera is packed full of complex electronics to track users in an attempt to take over the world!
MuHaHaHa! (evil villain laugh track) 

I KNEW IT!!

[SLVR]

I'm going to throw a new spin at it.

when it comes to new cameras I'm all about the do what you want, sell what you want, buy what you want aspect of it. Because really any new interest in film of film photography is valued since things are starting to go the way of the dodo, even if we don't agree with it.

What doesn't tickle me quite right is how lomography always leans on the kickstarter community and crowd sourcing to develop its new cameras. To me it just makes lomography seem smaller and immature as a company. Lomography seems to me like a fairly big company that with boutique shops all over the world, its own branded line of films, its own line of cameras, etc shouldn't have to depend on crowd sourcing to develop new products.

Something just feels weird to me about it. They fund a project with kickstarter, get it out and sell it. Take the profit and run to the bank, not run to invest it into new projects. Lather, rinse, repeat.

The way I see it is that there's a lack of commitment when you go about doing business this way. Not investing your profits into developing new products and depending on your customers to fund your projects seems wrong to me.

[Late Developer]

I'm going to throw a new spin at it.

The way I see it is that there's a lack of commitment when you go about doing business this way. Not investing your profits into developing new products and depending on your customers to fund your projects seems wrong to me.

Couldn't agree more.  The "new type 55" kickstarter got to $400k from scratch and my guess is that Lomo has a much healthier and liquid bank balance than theirs. Getting donations avoids the need to pay interest on a loan and keeps the bank manager sweet.  It definitely does seem, at least to me, to be a cheeky way to get development costs paid for....

[Chalky]

Agreed I think they've had a lot of flak online about that.

With the 'semi' manual settings I think a lot of film will be wasted, as it has such small latitude.

But still glad they're making it, anything to keep Fuji making film and more people shooting it.

[mcduff]

Hi TinTin
I understand your point about established companies (like Lomo) using Kickstarter. It is comparable to when established Hollywood stars have used kickstarter to fund movies that they could have  financed themselves.

Its exciting to see ‘the little guys’ like the Type 55 folks use kickstarter (and then they have to pray and hope that they will meet their target) whereas Lomo hops on and exceeds their goals in hours! Personally I am not sure where the line should be drawn regarding the fat cats using Kickstarter.

I was OK with what Lomo did when they introduced that rather silly Purple film of theirs — and I call it ‘silly’ despite the fact that you and I bought some, haha. Anyhow, they sort of "internally crowdfunded” that film by letting folks pre-order it, but Kickstarter wasn't involved in it. I have no probs with that concept for their projects but otherwise I likely line up with your opinion. Now, they have not put a project up on Kickstarter that really speaks to me, so my view might change if they put something up there I really wanted. Then I would probably throw my ethical views to the wind! 

[Francois]

The problem with Lomo is that it's a privately held company. Not that there's anything wrong with that but it also hides from the public what the actual income of the company is.

My feeling is that behind all the hype (and lets be honest, they're really good at that), the company might not be in such a great shape.
And high sales don't necessarily mean high profit. They have overhead costs that are possibly quite high.

Just as a comparison, my dad works at a store where he almost daily sells for anywhere between 2,000$ and 7,000$ of materials. It looks like it's a great thing yet one time they couldn't get their orders in because the owner's check bounced... This means that the overhead is much more important than we think.

On the Lomo front, I know some of their stuff is what some would call junk, expensive junk. But just look at how much their packaging costs... this is definitely the polar opposite of what Ikea does. Their products often use quite complex molds, that means that they're expensive to produce. They're selling to what is definitely a niche market, that means lower possible sales than we think. Using kickstarter can be a a definite saver for the company. It allows them to check the reception of a new product without actually committing to manufacturing right away and at the same time raise the cash to guarantee a minimal production and profitability of the project.

While the 100K they were looking for sounds high, it's probably not that much when we consider all that goes into starting the production.

[Hungry Mike]

I agree with Francois on this and I’d add that I'm not convinced that Lomography is all that healthy. They are essentially a lifestyle marketing company, a very niche one, and that’s a business with a clay foundation as far as I’m concerned. They recently closed many of their boutique stores around the world for example.  However, they have been releasing some product that is pretty niche and costly – the Petzval lens (earned 1.4million on Kickstarter!), those gimmicky micro 4/3 “art” lenses, that iPhone negative scanner, the re-release of that Russian lens. So who knows. Maybe getting rid of brick and mortar was just a way to stop the haemorrhaging of funds better spent elsewhere?

But yes using Kickstarter to essentially presell a gadget in order to gauge demand and hype your product? It makes sense to me especially if you’re dealing with something niche and looking for new ways to funnel people into your infrastructure.  Kickstarter is not a sacred space, free of the "taint" of commercialism. They might have been “indie” (whatever that means) at some point but I think that time has passed.  McDuff mentioned that Zac Braff movie but there are other examples – the Veronica Mars movie if we’re talking movies or in the gadget world the Pono (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1003614822/ponomusic-where-your-soul-rediscovers-music).

For what it’s worth, according to Kickstarter, Lomography supported the Type 55 project (https://www.kickstarter.com/profile/lomography.)

[moominsean]

Hell, the real money maker here is kickstarter with something like a 21% fee on the total...

[mcduff]

Hell, the real money maker here is kickstarter with something like a 21% fee on the total...

I thought it was more like 8-10% eg https://www.kickstarter.com/help/fees

[SLVR]

according to wiki amazon takes 5% and kickstarter takes 5% if I remember correctly