Author Topic: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey  (Read 14780 times)

imagesfrugales

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The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« on: October 05, 2013, 08:55:21 PM »
Hello Filmwasters,

point-and-shoot cameras are a matter of delicacy imho. Derided by many because there are so much better cameras with full control for the creative minded, but they are simply conveniant. Do you want to like them but hate them at the same time as I do? It's easy to hate many of them and let's begin with one representant who easyly can be hated.

Samsung Slim Zoom 290G, also known as Rollei Prego 90 from the time, when Rollei was owned by Samsung.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10103863755/#in/photostream

Not really compact but packed full of features, a rare 28(!)-90 mm lens with a good reputation and named Schneider-Kreuznach Variogon on the Rollei with a max apertures of 3.6 - 9.8. That's quite fast for a p+s zoom. Usual flash modes, backlight compensation +1.5, exposure compensation +- 3.0, bulb exposure up to 60 sec, infinity lock, macro mode down to 45 cm, multiple exposures and much more. Wow! All in a neat package of 320g. Of course you have to push the flash button several times to deactivate it every time you switch the camera on. But that's a peanut compared to what I experianced.

When it arrived last week, the first view through the finder was a shock. U n u s a b l e ! A tiny little peephole, r i d i c u l o u s. I shot some pics at regular conditions outside. Again: the finder is unusable. No need to talk any single more word. It's really unbelievable. Additionally the lens produces no distortion at all at the wide end, but "breaks up" in backlight situations. I hope the constructors nude ass was spanked highnoon on the market place every day. Period.

To be continued. Next time we will enjoy a really great p+s camera.

Cheers - Reinhold

« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 09:05:44 PM by imagesfrugales »


imagesfrugales

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2013, 09:55:36 PM »
We all know that there are some good p+s cameras like the Ricoh GR-1, Yashica T4/T5/super, the Fuji Natura and Klasse, the Contax T models and other comparable and expensive cameras with mostly prime lenses, and of course the Mju II. But they are all rather expensive and rare. But what about the trizillions of "regular" p+s cams? To be honest, most are crap.

So here I want to introduce a really crappy camera and many of us might love this unnamed swanwhite beauty.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10102437815/#in/photostream

73 gramms of the most basic p+s cam you can imagine. Film transport wheel, shutter release button and rewind crank plus a 28 mm one element plastic lens in a plastic housing. 1 shutter speed, 1 aperture, fixed focus, and ..... full format film, hahaha. That's it. Always ready to shoot with no delay at all. Point - and shoot. Use a fast film, overexposure doesn't hurt and some underexposure doesn't either. No need to adjust anything. Just fire. I love this camera.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10102566196/#in/photostream


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10102628956/#in/photostream


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10102651606/#in/photostream


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10103325473/#in/photostream


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10103327346/#in/photostream


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10103304205/#in/photostream

During a 1 hour walk I shot the whole film, the cheap relabeled Fuji film was developed via a drugstore, these are scans from the equally cheap 10x15 cm prints. So about 1 Eur for the film and 4 Eur lab processing (prints included) makes 5 Eur for the full show. What a fun.

To be continued. Cheers - Reinhold
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 10:01:25 PM by imagesfrugales »

tkmedia

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 01:34:41 AM »
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imagesfrugales

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 09:17:52 AM »
Yes, they look the same. I also have a waterproof case but no further accessories.

AJShepherd

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 11:37:22 AM »
Thought that was one of the Vivitar Ultra Wide and Slim clones that are about, but the focal length printed by the lens is different to the one on this:

Vivitar Ultra Wide and Slim by Antony J  Shepherd, on Flickr

I do quite like the Viv, flares like a monster if the sun is even vaguely in shot, you have to be careful how you hold it to prevent fingertips showing up, but even with a roll of Agfaphoto Vista Plus from Poundland gives nice results.

Foden steam lorry by Antony J  Shepherd, on Flickr

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2013, 11:47:25 AM »
I`m working my way trough the list of compacts I for one reason or the other believe can do me good.
Always in my pocket wherever I go, ready to snap. I tend not to bring any other camera with me unless my reason to leave the hose is picture taking, and I´m to cheap to trash something expensive around.  Last addition; Espio 24ew - 24-105 lens, super light and compact. Hope it performs well  :)  Keepers so far, Mju II and Ultra vide & slim.
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imagesfrugales

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2013, 02:54:27 PM »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10116871174/#

Here we go with a prime lens. The Minolta Riva Mini aka Freedom Escort has a 3.5/35 4-element-3groups lens, so it's a Tessar type. The camera is almost the same as the Leica Mini. But other than the latter it has no long time exposure and no inifinity setting. No exposure compensation and no backlight compensation on both, what is a shame for a "serious" camera. Shutter speeds from 1/5 to 1/250 and DX settings from ISO 50 - 1000, we have seen more versatile features. The camera is slooooow and noisy. Bsssssssssssssssssss - and the the camera is on with the lens extended, bsssssssssssss  brrrrrrrt - and the focus is set and the picture taken, bsssssssssssssssss - and the camera is off.

Is this really a point-and-shoot? Or a wait-and-point?

Oops, wait again, of course you have to push the flash button several times to disable the flash. You need a bag, otherwise I always had dirt and fingerprints on the lens. Besides all these annoying drawbacks the pictures are sharp and contrasty. And the camera is small and lightweighted. Not much more positive to talk about........

Did all the p+s engineers switch off their brains when they left home and went to work?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10116976606/#
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 03:19:08 PM by imagesfrugales »

imagesfrugales

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2013, 03:03:36 PM »

Nice catch, but seems to be rare? Would like to find one but didn't at the bay, also no expired offers.

Fluminian

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2013, 04:27:49 PM »
I bought a dozen of these little buggers a couple of months ago, but the best one
(in my opinion) was the least compact and ugly as hell, typical for the time.

I present you the Fuji DL-350!

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Francois

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2013, 10:27:22 PM »

Nice catch, but seems to be rare? Would like to find one but didn't at the bay, also no expired offers.
Keep an eye out for the Superheadz Black Slim Devil instead. Same thing as the UW&S, just different colors
http://www.superheadz.com/widelenscamera/
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 10:29:17 PM by Francois »
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 08:19:05 AM »
I recently bought quite a few point and shoots myself and I'm now done with them. Too little control and too much automation (almost like a digital camera). I might keep the Minolta Riva Panorama though.

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 12:51:30 PM »
I have had a few p&s. I remember my first camera I bought for myself was a Kodak Star 235. because I took what I consider my first good photo with it. (I hope I find a print or the neg itself someday.) I also have an Olympus zoom model that I stopped using because the back film door had a broken hinge. I sent it out and was repaired many years ago but never tested. (It has film and a fresh battery inside.) another favorite was a kodak easyload 35 I bought for my father. he left it out in his car and broke it. Kodak should have promoted that camera better. The easyload system was fantastic. It would have silenced a lot of people who thought 35mm cameras were tough to load. Last one I like is the Dakota My-1 it is tiny and has a good lens.

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 01:31:02 PM »
The idea of a P&S is brilliant, but as has already been noted in several cases here, the execution is often lacking, leading to a product that promises a lot more than it can deliver. The ambition of the designers seemed to frequently overreach the capabilities of the availability of the technology. The complication of 1980-era electronics does not help either; the tiny push-button-operated LCD controls take forever to use and rarely remember settings, so you end up having to set them each time. The simplest ones are probably the best, but for the most part they just drive me nuts.

These days, my idea of point-and-shoot is to set for f/8 and zone focus.
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 02:40:21 PM »
I have quite a few Point and Shoot cameras, the Leica Z2X is good value for money I think as it can be picked up for between £30-50 used. I have an Olympus XA2 that I haven’t used yet and a mju ii, also haven’t used it yet. Olympus trip 35, super cheap and fabulous, Olympus Pen EE and EE2, very handy half frame cameras.

I had a Canon Sureshot 120 Classic, which I really liked but gave it to my sister to take with her to Peru, I replaced it with a Z135, which, again, I haven’t actually used as yet, but I will!



Here’s a couple from the Canon Classic.




« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 02:42:34 PM by Verian »
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The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2013, 07:53:31 PM »
I went through a phase of buying cheap P&S cameras on eBay - to ameliorate GAS by playing to the aspect of it that just wants a new toy every now and then.

Pentax Espios. I have a 105SW and also now a 24EW, the latter being better - these have ridiculously slow lenses (c. 5.6 to over 10) but they go nice and wide, particularly the 24EW, and have a lot of control, again particularly the 24EW which has stuff like exposure compensation. The lenses are pretty sharp too. The 24EW is really vignetty at 24mm but that looks pretty cool - I really only use it at 24. The 24EW would have been reasonably high end consumer kit at the time I suppose.

Also an Espio Mini which is nothing like the others, being a small sliding-case fixed lens pocket camera like the XA or the mju-ii. It has a wickedly sharp and contrasty 32mm lens on it and I really like it - the only problem being that it doesn't feel (and probably isn't) very durable, nothing like the two aforementioned.

The only trouble with the above, apart from the slow lenses which means you're stuck with 400 film and keeping it steady, is having to turn the damn flash off every time you turn it on. See also mju-ii and pretty much anything with integral flash. That's one reason I like the XA2 and 3, you never have to worry about that. The mju-ii is absurd - unless you actually point it into the sun it always wants to use flash.
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tkmedia

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2013, 12:45:25 AM »
the 24e is a very 'new' camera circa 2003, it went for approx $300 us, 220 euro. So expensive!

The Espio Mini is unusual as it does not have a zoom lens, almost every single espio has a zoom except the mini.

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Pentax_Espio_Mini/UC-1

I used to have a Nikon AF600 that I liked, but went missing.
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nikon_AF600/Lite%E2%80%A2Touch/MiniTouch_(QD)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 12:49:49 AM by tkmedia »
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KevinAllan

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2013, 08:20:59 PM »
We could also consider disposable cameras under the P&S category. Whilst I've seen some dreadful results from disposables without flash, we can now buy Fuji disposables with flash for £1.98 at my local Morrisons supermarket. Some family members use disposables and I've been pretty impressed with the results.


Ezzie

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2013, 07:58:44 AM »
And of course APS cameras. A myriad of these popped up over the ten year period Kodak promoted the doomed system. I do however count my IXUS (the very first one) as one of my favourite cameras. It never failed me. I looks like a million bucks and is well built (survived being lost on an alpine slope and being skiied over, kicked about on a tiled floor in a pub etc). The pictures were a bit meh, but not that bad when I look back at the prints.

And FPP have even been able to get hold of some APS film, if one were to consider taking these ill-fated cameras out of the closet.

http://filmphotographyproject.com/store/film/aps-film
« Last Edit: October 09, 2013, 08:01:17 AM by Ezzie »
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2013, 08:05:31 PM »
And here she is. My eldest daughter, all of nine yrs old almost ran off with it. She adored the looks. Maybe not so strange the Design Centre in London selected this as an example of good design.

Of course she is auto everything. No exposure compensation, no selectable AF points, no nothing. You can select three image modes, which are really just imprints in the rebate telling the processor how to crop the negative. You can always print whichever size you want later. The panoramic mode is of course enticing, until you find out it only uses half the negative. APS film was mostly ASA 200 and up. And even at 200 the prints were grainy, full frame, not to mention what happened when cropped.

Auto flash of course. which is not much use other than for close-ups, certainly not fill. The lens is a 24-48mm (equiv?) zoom. 1:4.5 to 6:2. Not particularly bright. Nor very sharp when I look at the prints in earnest. Not very happy being pointed in the general direction of the sun, nor in bright diffused light. Could have done with a lens hood. But for a camera that would fit into a 20 pack of cigs, It is not half bad. Mine saw more action in its day than any other camera I have used before or since. Been on travels across half the world, dropped on ski slopes, trodden on, bashed against rocks, used in the mountains at 20C below, and in deserts at 50C above, and underwater in the red sea in a plastic bag. Changed the CR2 battery, and found a cartridge still loaded with 5 shots left. Fired her up and she works. Even the wireless remote still sets the camera off, in either red-eye pre-flash mode or just instantly.

Might very well consider going over to FPP and ordering some APS film for her. I still have a shop that processes APS down the road.


IXUS by Eirik0304, on Flickr
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2013, 09:35:44 PM »
As mentioned, not the best in certain conditions. But when the light is good it can do quite well:

Fuji Nexia 200 (scanned from print - Kodak paper ;) )


Dead vldi by Eirik0304, on Flickr


Windhoek by Eirik0304, on Flickr


Chameleon #1 by Eirik0304, on Flickr

Kodak Advantix:


Grip by Eirik0304, on Flickr
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2013, 03:39:53 AM »
A few folks such as Ordinal & O2Pilot have summed up a lot of my feelings about the P&S stuff from the 80's -- the small buttons/bad UI, 'forgetful' electronics, and penchant for having the flash default to the 'on' position can all get in the way of enjoying cameras which can have some good qualities. OM fanbois (of which I am one) will rave about the Stylus series. I have the poorer cousin of the two - the Infinity. While I think it is a pretty competent shooter, I have only put a few rolls through it. Frankly I find my zone focus cameras (XA2/3, Balda CA35, etc) are usually faster, easier and more fun to use. It is the 'normally on' flash that is the main thing that drives me nuts. I probably should just put some tape over it  ;)


Science Centre 01 by dsmccrac, on Flickr

I have a roll in a friend's Olympus Pen EE, which could turn out to be a P&S that I can get behind. We will see, only about 60 more shots and this half-frame will be done its first roll, haha.
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tkmedia

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2013, 06:42:54 AM »
It is the 'normally on' flash that is the main thing that drives me nuts. I probably should just put some tape over it  ;)

With tape ;), for a lot of P&S cameras will underexpose, as they change the exposure levels so it's expecting flash for the proper exposure, but you cover the darn bits up and the flash is melting the tape. ;D
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imagesfrugales

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2013, 06:36:37 PM »
Thanks a lot for all contributions so far. The "flash-on by default" for sure is the most annoying thing on so many p+s.

Here's another disposable with a nice wide-angle plastic lens, and the flash only fires if you push the button before. I reloaded it a few times.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10229477413/#


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/4550485919/#


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/4550485933/#

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2013, 08:30:40 PM »
If anyone wants to further their collection for cheap, make sure you visit the share the love thread
http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=6583.0

In a few days, if I have no takers for my Minolta, I'll switch it for something else that's equally quirky.
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2013, 11:05:59 PM »
My most rubbish P&S has to be this: - a Chinon Auto GX. The sticker doesn't come with the original model. Basically a big heavy disposable camera that tries to look like a Yashica T3.
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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2013, 05:13:34 AM »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10116871174/#

Here we go with a prime lens. The Minolta Riva Mini aka Freedom Escort has a 3.5/35 4-element-3groups lens, so it's a Tessar type. The camera is almost the same as the Leica Mini. But other than the latter it has no long time exposure and no inifinity setting. No exposure compensation and no backlight compensation on both, what is a shame for a "serious" camera. Shutter speeds from 1/5 to 1/250 and DX settings from ISO 50 - 1000, we have seen more versatile features. The camera is slooooow and noisy. Bsssssssssssssssssss - and the the camera is on with the lens extended, bsssssssssssss  brrrrrrrt - and the focus is set and the picture taken, bsssssssssssssssss - and the camera is off.

Is this really a point-and-shoot? Or a wait-and-point?

Oops, wait again, of course you have to push the flash button several times to disable the flash. You need a bag, otherwise I always had dirt and fingerprints on the lens. Besides all these annoying drawbacks the pictures are sharp and contrasty. And the camera is small and lightweighted. Not much more positive to talk about........

Did all the p+s engineers switch off their brains when they left home and went to work?


http://www.flickr.com/photos/imagesfrugales/10116976606/#

i have the QD version and find it convenient and take good photos so far.

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Re: The Point-And-Shoot Odyssey
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2013, 01:28:39 PM »
From a Pentax Espio


Edinburgh 14/09/13 by windy_, on Flickr