Author Topic: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera  (Read 6426 times)

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« on: January 27, 2013, 12:39:38 PM »
I've been thinking about trying to build a 4x5 camera for a while as they look so good and like a tough but good project to try. However as I have never shot that size and have no way to easily develop it, alongside the chances of the project not working 100% right and the cost of lenses I have decided against.

But I've always wanted to try a camera with movements,and the evenings are long and dark so projects like this are fun for winter.

So I decided to try and make a polaroid land camera into a 'view' (?) camera with movements.  I had an old 105mm lens and shutter (with T setting) and an old polaroid 103 camera, so that was all I needed, other than some scrap wood and something to make a darkslide from. I used the tripod mount from a camera that had already had other bits scavenged from it and sunk that into the frame.

Darkslide was built from an old packfilm case and part of a reasonably stiff A4 document holder, works a treat.

Built a frame from some old wood. Used epoxy glue to mount the bolts to the camera where needed, and drilled a couple holes in the camera, one in the battery compartment, one below the bellows, to mount the rear of the camera to the frame.

The camera front can extend back and forth allowing for extremely close focussing, the frame is marked at the point where infinity is in focus so I can use it without ground glass if I wish.

Front standard has rise and fall, tilt and swing. This is more a proof of concept, if I use it a lot I will buy some nice wood and re make the frame, it is untidy at the moment.

The original design had full rear movements too, but that had to be changed mainly because it was too difficult to allow those movements whilst the back could easily open as required and the film could be pulled. 

I have some test shots and seems to work great. Can focus much closer than a normal pack camera as you use the glass rather than the view finder to focus and are not using the struts to hold the front lensboard anymore.

But, you do need a changing bag to use it, as the film has to be removed each shot to focus. Rough steps are:

- focus on GG
- lock movements
- close shutter - already made that mistake once!
- remove from tripod
- load film in bag (unless first shot in pack)
- replace camera without knocking tripod
- take shot!

same as large format I guess just bit more hassle using changing bag.

It's super windy here today so can't really take it out to try movements, and need to learn what they all do first!

Anyway, some pics of it below, any comments welcome!

(and if this is best placed in another thread, feel free to move it, and forgive poor phone photos) 

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2013, 01:14:08 PM »
here's a test shot which was shot at about 12 inches from the clock...

Terry

  • Guest
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2013, 03:25:45 PM »
Chalky,
I've got a hacked-together 4x5 reducing back that came with a 5x7 camera I bought.  It's total crap but it's built around a serviceable 4x5 back from an old press camera.  I'll bet you could adapt it to fit the back of your camera, if you want to be able to use conventional 4x5 holders.  Let me know if you want it.

Francois

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,003
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2013, 03:38:27 PM »
That's a pretty good start to something which is bound to work.
Rear movements only affect the image shape, so they're not absolutely necessary.
But if you still want them, the easiest would be to use base tilt like in some high-end cameras.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Diane Peterson

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,960
    • Diane Peterson Photography
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2013, 03:47:35 PM »
Very nice! I love doing things like this! Bravo!

LT

  • Global Moderator
  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,030
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2013, 03:53:30 PM »
Great stuff Chalkster.

Rear movements only affect the image shape ...

Dont forget focusing too.  Rear tilt is quite handy for scheimpflug control when you have coverage issues with the lens. I use it with my 75mm as even the slightest front movement takes it beyond the coverage area, but back tilt works fine. But, as you say, that does then introduce some perspective distortion.

also handy for parallel tilts to exaggerate falls and rises.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 03:55:54 PM by Leon »
L.

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2013, 05:10:31 PM »
Thanks for feedback everyone. fun building this stuff.

I'm going to get hold of some nicer wood and rebuild the frame when time allows. It originally had back movements, but as I had assumed
that they had to be from the middle of the camera, and I couldn't get that to work, I removed them. I didn't realise it could tilt from the base, I will look into that for the new frame.

The ground glass is not perhaps as good as I had hoped. Just tried a shot outside and although the sun was going, there was still plenty of light, but the glass was very dark. Will look for something brighter.

There is another test shot below, using some tilt. You can see that the 105mm lens is not quite big enough. Still like the shot though. Is there a lens bigger than the 105mm that is not the sought after and expensive 127mm?

Terry, thank you, that would be great. I have no idea how I would fit it but would be willing to give it a try! Do labs develop 4x5 film still? However the lens won't cover the entire frame but would be fun either way. Drop me a PM, maybe we could do a swop of some sort.

Thanks everyone, will upload some more test shots when I have the chance to shoot more outside.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 05:17:05 PM by Chalky »

Phil Bebbington

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,568
    • Phil Bebbington
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2013, 05:13:05 PM »
10/10 I say. I admire anyone who experiments in this way

I'm off to use and look up the word 'scheimpflug' I'll probably get a slap  ;D

Update: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheimpflug_principle fascinating stuff and I didn't get a slap!
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 05:15:40 PM by Phil Bebbington »

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2013, 05:18:39 PM »
thank you!

haha I tried to read that, and although I am generally Ok with maths, I didn't get very far!

I have been reading this for the basics of movements... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_camera

LT

  • Global Moderator
  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,030
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2013, 05:30:19 PM »
Yes - IGNORE the maths! It's stupidly complicated and you dont need it to use the 'flug method.  Just tilt, and see.

Were you using a darkcloth outside?

What is the max aperture on your lens? I can see my f7 reasonably well on my viewcam, but it does have a fresnel fitted. 

You're going to need enough coverage for movements really. You're going to want something that more than covers your image area - I dont really know the size of the instant film your using, but , to be safe, go for something with at least 150mm image circle.  This site gives some details:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF6x9cm.html

or

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/LF4x5in.html
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 05:35:42 PM by Leon »
L.

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2013, 05:35:51 PM »
thanks Leon

The lens is f4.5...

I assumed (perhaps wrongly) that I'd only need the cloth if the sun was bright? but maybe you always need it when outdoors?

 

LT

  • Global Moderator
  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,030
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2013, 05:37:27 PM »
yeah - always need the cloth.
L.

Phil Bebbington

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,568
    • Phil Bebbington
building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2013, 05:40:05 PM »
I use Leon's patented double tee shirt dark cloth. It works a treat.

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2013, 05:48:42 PM »
thanks both, next time I get the chance to take it out I'll take a cloth or t shirt!

Francois

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,003
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2013, 08:53:56 PM »
As for the fresnel, you can get large sheets at some dollar stores. You just put it in front of the groundglass. It will affect the focus plane so you will need to readjust. I know it's coarse but it should just work fine. What it does is make the light more even across the glass.

As for rear tilts, they are mostly useful when you want to correct some oddball distortion (like making a model look more slender) or when shooting tabletop still life. They can also be used when you want to shoot up but your tripod head is maxed-out. If you combine them with the opposite lens movement to keep everything parallel, they show no distortion.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Alan

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,142
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2013, 03:05:46 PM »
Brilliant!

lens change and some basic woodwork - well done.

Terry

  • Guest
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2013, 01:04:03 PM »
Chalky--I've gone up to the attic and dug out that 4x5 back.  It's in pretty rough shape (really hacked together and the gg is broken).  So I'm going to say you probably don't want it.  Thinking, however, that you might look at those baby speed graphic backs--you could mount a Graflex rollfilm back on there and use 120 film...

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2013, 05:14:42 PM »
no problem, thanks for letting me know and for the initial offer  :)

next project is to re-do the wooden frame but will keep an eye out for other backs and see what I can mate with it!


Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2013, 12:55:22 PM »
just stumbled across this... looks cool and a similar idea

http://www.flickr.com/groups/filmphotographypodcast/discuss/72157632652228549/

Terry

  • Guest
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2013, 01:36:51 PM »
Brilliant video.  Reinventing the wheel but it's a lot of fun!

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2013, 07:34:10 PM »
just revived this thread as I have now spent a bit more time remaking the frame so make it look better.

and added a rough focussing scale to the bottom so I can use it when I forget the ground glass like I did today...

now to build some kind of bespoke changing bag.

or, does anyone have any idea if you can get the paper darkslide back into a pack when only opening the door a little?

Francois

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,003
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2013, 11:02:52 PM »
I really have doubts about this... There's a lot of stuff in there to prevent this.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2013, 07:14:12 AM »
Hi francois, it works, you just need to use a changing bag  each time to take the film in and out which is a bit of a pain. But fun to build.

Francois

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,003
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2013, 02:56:20 PM »
I was talking about putting the darkslide back on the pack while it's inside the camera...

But, maybe it would be possible to make some sort of dark box to store the packs and take them out of the camera without a dark bag.... something a bit like the old plate cameras that had multi-plate holders...
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Chalky

  • Sheet Film
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
    • Instant surf
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2013, 03:17:21 PM »
Ahh yes, was thinking about a small pack sized bag that would Velcro on and allow you to just remove and store the film pack whilst you used the ground glass to compose the next shot. Was thinking about Velcro fixing of some sort. Need the wife's sowing skills!

Francois

  • Self-Coat
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,003
Re: building a new camera - my version of a packfilm view camera
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2013, 08:54:26 PM »
I was thinking more along the lines of some mechanical device... but I do love machines and stuff like that...
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.