Author Topic: I suck at developing.. Help please?  (Read 4409 times)

Steven.

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I suck at developing.. Help please?
« on: April 07, 2012, 07:05:37 AM »
so I've been developing my own film for about 4 months give or take and everything has been pretty good up until recently. this ONLY happens when I develop 2 rolls of film at a time (I have a patterson tank). I either get images that are overexposed or that have uneven development.

some info: i normally shoot tri-x and develop in arista premium (1:9). the developer is starting to yellow but its nowhere near brown colored. i develop at 20C for 6mins (got that from the mass dev chart) and i agitate slowly continuously for first 30 seconds and then for 10 seconds every minute (yes, i do rotate the tank during agitation). my tank recommends i use 20ml but i make enough chem for 22ml so that shouldnt be a problem.

i've gotten results that look like this:





and this ONLY happens when I develop two rolls at a time. when i develop one roll my results look a little contrasty (probably due to over agitation) but i never get the uneven development.

can anyone offer any advice?

EDIT****** its oz not ml for the measurements sorry!
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 08:24:46 AM by Steven. »

DaveMiller

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2012, 08:17:15 AM »
How much fluid are you putting in the tank, the quantity required is shown on the bottom of the tank. I suspect that the film is not being covered so part of it is immersed and the remainder only gets splashed during inversions. Also make sure that the reel(s) are pushed to the bottom and remain there during development; Paterson supply a circular clip that pushes over the central tube on top of the reel for this purpose, if you don't have one use a rolled elastic band.

LT

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 08:20:52 AM »
this one is easy. You are not using enough developer.  :) Use more.

This is nothing to do with the films exposure, just not enough developer to fully cover the top reel.

L.

Steven.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 09:35:55 AM »
hmm you guys are probably right there.. my tank says to use 20ml and i put in 22ml but maybe i should add more next time to be safe. thanks!

Paul Mitchell

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2012, 09:56:33 AM »
Steven, I think it's meant to be 20ml per reel i.e. 40ml for two reels. This is probably why it only happens when developing two films.
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DaveMiller

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 10:01:19 AM »
My Paterson tanks instruct that 350ml of developer is required for each 35mm reel and 500ml for each 120 reel. The latter amount still applies if two 120 format films are loaded on one reel. 

LT

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 10:07:36 AM »
we're not talking about the amount of developer concentrate you mix with water, but the amount of mixed developer liquid that you add to the tank.  I always use more than the tank suggests ...
L.

DaveMiller

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 11:18:10 AM »
we're not talking about the amount of developer concentrate you mix with water, but the amount of mixed developer liquid that you add to the tank.  I always use more than the tank suggests ...

Good point Leon.

To clarify my earlier comment I've checked my Paterson reels and they all instruct fluid quantities as:
35mm or 126 - 290ml
127 - 370ml
120/220 - 500ml

Andrea.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 11:25:33 AM »
 I use 400 for 35mm to be sure - and with one empty reel on top  of bottom reel you are using so you can be sure it doesn't ride up out of the developer. Done that too!

Francois

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2012, 03:21:15 PM »
If you want to be sure, just take the empty reels and put them in the tank. Add water until you reach a level you feel would give you the most even development and use a beaker to measure the volume (just pour it in).
Francois

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Ordinal

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2012, 08:00:53 PM »
I always use 300ml per reel for 35mm in my Paterson (i.e. 600ml for two rolls). I've not had any problems like the above-mentioned.
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Mike (happyforest)

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2012, 08:16:05 PM »
Steven

I assume that only one of the rolls exhibits this issue, if so then I would agree with the others that you haven't got enough liquid in total.  If you are using 20 mls per film at 1+9 then this would suggest the total volume for 2 films would be 400 mls, given that the paterson tanks take 580 mls for 2 films then you definitely haven't got enough in.

You wouldn't be misreading the measurement units on the base of the tank by any chance? As 290 mls is 10 fluid ounces or 580 mls is 20 fluid ounces.

If both exhibit this issue then something else must be going on, but I wouldn't know what to suggest.

If it helps you can find a manual for the older system 4 tanks here.

http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Paterson/Developing_Tanks/Instructions/System4.pdf

You could always stop developing two rolls at once, on important films until you resolve this problem.

Mike
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 08:42:36 PM by Mike (happyforest) »

Steven.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2012, 06:47:40 AM »
whoops sorry guys i put the wrong unit of measurement!

my tank clearly reads 11 oz for 1 roll of 35mm and 20 oz for 2 rolls of 35mm (not mL.. stupid me).

i guess i will just use more liquid though next time as everyone seems to agree thats the problem.

here's an example from the actual roll i developed last night (the white squiggly line is a dog hair btw)

« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 06:49:55 AM by Steven. »

Mike (happyforest)

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2012, 11:12:26 PM »
Steven

The tide line (for want of a better description) is approximately across the centre of the frame, which to me suggests that even at 22 oz (from your first post)  which according to the tank engraving, should be more than ample to cover the 2 film is not sufficient.  Even allowing for the difference between US oz and UK oz. As the tank is Paterson, UK designed so is more likely to use the UK fluid measurements.

Therefore, I would strongly suggest that you do as francois recommends and physically check how much liquid you do need to cover the two spirals. Rather than just estimate the correct volume.

Again all this assumes that one film (the bottom one) is fine and it is the top film which has the issues.

Regards

Mike

Steven.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2012, 10:27:08 AM »
i tried and need approx 25-27 oz for me to feel comfortable developing 2 rolls... wow.

i've been having problems in general with my tank+reels so im just going to buy a replacement.

thanks for the help everyone!

Francois

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2012, 03:14:15 PM »
Any other problems we don't know about with those tanks and reels?

You know we're the go-to people when it comes to fixing stuff  ;D
Francois

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Steven.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2012, 10:47:23 PM »
the tank itself has a slight leak (maybe thats why i get uneven developing) but only a few drops come out so i dont worry about it too much.

also the reels seem to work great with 24 exposure film but once i try and develop 36 exposure film, it will just "give up" 2/3 of the way in. i dont know how to explain it but i can just feel the reels stop working if that makes sense haha.. like i can feel it stop taking up the film for no apparent reason.

Photo_Utopia

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2012, 07:59:46 AM »
Sounds like the reel is sticky, if it's a Patterson one you can separate it in two halves and clean it with a cotton bud and distilled water.
Also before you load the film make sure everything is dry, cut the end of the film so it's rounded and feed the first 2-3" before you get into the dark.
like here:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/developing-your-first-b-film.html

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Steven.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2012, 09:32:08 AM »
Sounds like the reel is sticky, if it's a Patterson one you can separate it in two halves and clean it with a cotton bud and distilled water.
Also before you load the film make sure everything is dry, cut the end of the film so it's rounded and feed the first 2-3" before you get into the dark.
like here:
http://photo-utopia.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/developing-your-first-b-film.html

Mark Antony

ah i didnt even realize they got sticky.. i just assumed the final rinse with dishwashing fluid would somehow sort everything out   :P i'll go clean it.

i normally do cut the edges but my reels also don't line up properly (compared to my friends at least) so sometimes its hard to get in correctly.

i think a big problem is that i lack patience.. i remember when i first started i think everything went smoothly because i took things a step at a time rather than rushing through things.

LT

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2012, 09:37:38 AM »
ah i didnt even realize they got sticky.. i just assumed the final rinse with dishwashing fluid would somehow sort everything out   :P i'll go clean it.

Arghhh!  Big Mistake :) NEVER allow any wetting agent or washing up liquid etc near your reels.  It forms residues and stickiness that is next to impossible to remove.

I had a similar thing happen - soon learned my lesson! I had to wash the reels in the dishwasher several times, with no luck, then finally, I decided to boil them as a last ditch attempt to get them clean.  It worked thankfully, so I didn't have to spend out on new ones.  The only fluids that touch my reels now are processing chemicals and Reverse Osmosis filtered water.  The wetting agent is dealt with off the reel.
L.

Francois

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2012, 03:09:42 PM »
Using hot water and a toothbrush should do the trick for cleaning the reels.

The thing with sticky reels is that friction gradually increases as you spool the film.
The chemicals all dissolve perfectly in water, so there's no need to soap-up the reels and tanks. Besides, after the final rinse, don't you think enough water has flowed in the equipment to get it clean?

As for the drying agent, I started doing what one of us once posted about (it could be Peter's trick, I don't remember). I dilute ,in a spray bottle, the photo-flo with distilled water. To make sure there's no bacteria left, I rinsed-out the bottle first with alcohol and let it dry a bit. So far, no bacteria seems to have grown in the mix.

When I'm finished washing the film, I take the reel out of the water, give it a little tap to remove the excess and put the film on the clips. Then, I drizzle the film with photo-flo. I use my fingers to squeegee out the excess. So far, not a scratch to be seen.

As for the tank, you can seal it with black silicone. You could also use a piece of aluminum duct tape. This stuff is pretty much indestructible!
Francois

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Steven.

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2012, 06:55:32 PM »
Leon- I didn't know that thank for telling me! Hopefully there's not a lot of gunk built up in them already.
Francois- thanks for the advice I'll try using a tooth brush and cleaning it and running a roll of junk film through it to make sure it works first. I'll look into the silicone too.

reuben

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Re: I suck at developing.. Help please?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2012, 10:09:31 AM »
points already made - check the amount of chemistry needed using the empty reels method and water + 1 for wetting agent and reels - NEVER!

If you need to clean i off - dishwasher first then if still needed (use a bit of duff film to try ) toothbrush and  a bicarb based toothpaste works well

I have done this as a matter of course with the secondhand ones I bought before even trying to load them