Author Topic: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?  (Read 14578 times)

Chalky

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medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« on: January 23, 2012, 11:10:45 PM »
hello all,
I am looking to branch out into the world of 6x6 medium format cameras.

My budget is very limited (and my obsession with buying polaroid film isn't helping). I have seen lots of good information here on bronica and other cameras of this type, but has anyone used a Kiev 88?

They seem to be on the cheaper end of the scale, but most things I have read seem to class them as temperamental at best.

If anyone had any suggestions or thoughts on the kiev or other medium format SLRs I would love to hear them.

Seems like some of the 645 ones go for a little cheaper too...

I'm a novice in this area so don't want to rush out and buy something cheap that isn't up to par, but also don't want to wait 5 years to save £500+ for a hasselblad!

thank you in advance,
Matt

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2012, 11:31:39 PM »
Hiya Matt.

I have no idea how good or bad a Kiev 88 is or what glass you can get for them. You can pick up some bargain Mamiya 645 cameras and even the likes of Mamiya C220 / C330 TLR cameras with interchangeable lenses. Bronica SQ-A / Bronica SQ-B cameras are superb and as cheap as they've ever been. (Peter R has a Mamiya 645 and produces beautiful photos with it.)

Alternatively, you could even go down the Voigtlander Perkeo (or similar) route and pick up a very neat and pocketable 120 folder with a cracking fixed lens / shutter for less that £100.

It just depends what you want - interchangeable system or portable fixed lens.

Hope I've not confused you - but there's a load of options out there and not necessarily expensive ones.

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Chalky

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2012, 11:37:16 PM »
Hi,
Thanks for info  :)

should have mentioned I have a lubitel TLR and a 120 folder so don't think I need another one of that style... can't really justify doubling up on an already too large collection!

I'd like interchangeable lenses if possible, from what I have read here I will keep my eye out for a kowa 6 or a great wall as well as keeping my eye on the bronica's and keep on saving the pennies.

keen for anyone else's input though.

thank you,
Matt

moominsean

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 01:28:45 AM »
i've thought about grabbing a kiev, mostly for the fisheye though i know it is something i would get bored with. if you do get one, read up on them because some are modded and some aren't, and there seems to be some differences between which lenses will fit. i found it all very confusing. i've read mixed things about build quality as well...but there is a big fan base for them.

you really only need one slr, as they are pretty similar. ends up being about build quality, lens selection and how it feels in your hands. i was a kowa six user for four years or so, but i like my bronica s2a better. it feels better to hold and shoot, and the lenses are very good and not as expensive as the kowa lenses. the 35mm lens i had for the kowa six was worth so much and it was so huge, i didn't want to carry it in my bag while walking around, so it wasn't much fun. the bronicas have a wide selection of lenses, as well.

great walls don't have interchangeable lenses. the lens comes off, but they only ever made one lens for it. you can tape other things on it though, but i don't find myself using mine all that much.

if you don't like what you get initially, you will probably go through a couple different cameras until something fits.

a couple shots from the S2A... you can see more in the review section. following up on leon's comments below about the sqa and the batteries, that is exactly why i went with the s2a. all manual (plus it looks a lot cooler).
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 04:29:24 PM by moominsean »
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Abdul Hye

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 03:01:56 AM »
My beloved Kiev 88.


After describing it as “an eBay success to counter my many eBay failures” and buying another lens and a waist level view finder for it, it died on me. The shutter broke and then the mirror jammed. I paid £142 for it with that lens in the picture, 30mm f/3.5 Arsat.

I won’t recommend buying an unmodified one or an old one. The one I owned was an old model and you might find it hard finding info on it. To remove the TTL I had to remove the leatherette and unscrew the screws that were holding it down. Most versions it just slid out. If I Google “Kiev 88 remove the TTL” then a link to the flickr discussion were I instruct someone how to do it is the 5th link (it might be just on my computer). Other people are saying it should slide out. If you buy an old model then it might be hard to find help if you encounter any problems with it like it did.

I loved it when it worked. I sold all the lenses and listed the body for spares/repair.
There is a 88 on ebay.co.uk and someone asks the question

Quote
Is this a basic 88, 88CM or one of the aftermarket 'reworked' ones?

I have since bought a SQ-A for around £120. It had seen better days. Works perfectly and I am happy with the results.

A shoot from the Kiev. I don't have any shots from the SQ-A uploaded.

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Pete_R

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 08:17:40 AM »
I can recommend the Mamiya 645 if you can put up with the format. A prism and side grip make them usable like an overgrown 35mm SLR. If you shop around you can buy the kit very cheaply.
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LT

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2012, 08:36:29 AM »
I'm a fan of the bronica also.  I have sqai and sqa bodies. I'd recommend the sqai as it has a bulb setting, whereas with the sqa, you have to do some wrist-twisting gymnastics on the lens to lock the shutter open.

I'm always a bit perturbed by the battery situation though ... it would be nicer not to have to rely on it really. I hear good things from Skj and Sean about the older Bronies  - S2 etc?

A few SQA and 80mm shots for you:

« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 09:22:45 AM by leon taylor »
L.

Matt Davis

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2012, 08:59:57 AM »
I had a Kiev 88CM for a year, it was a nice camera and my entry into Medium Format, but alas the shutter failed after less than a year.

My advice would be to get something more reliable.



Oh & Hi every one, thought it was about time I made myself known, been lurking here for quite a while.


Matt



 

Paul Mitchell

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2012, 09:17:45 AM »
Another heads up for the Bronica SQA. A fraction of the price of a Hassy but just as reliable, lenses are plentiful and reasonably priced too! And has Leon has mentioned the S2 is a great camera and the older Nikkor lenses are legendary.

I wouldn't dismiss the Mamiya C220 or C330's either as they're on a different level to the Lubitel. You can often buy a good quality body + lenses for about £200

Paul
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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2012, 09:37:04 AM »
I used to have a Mamiya c330 and it was a great camera.  What about the Kiev 60?

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 12:04:42 PM »
as you mentioned 645 I'm with Peter R in recommending the mamiya 645 series. if I buy a mf slr I'll go square but if you like the 645 then I can tell you that atleast I think that the feel of quality in those cameras are impressive.

hi matt :)
PS, introductions! ;)
/jonas

Terry

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 01:20:30 PM »
Matt,

The thing about Russian cameras (with the sole exception in my experience of the Kinor 35 movie cameras) is that mechanically they were inconsistent.  But much of the Russian glass is excellent, so people put up with the temperamental mechanics.  The Kievs are no exception--although the Salyuts (early version of K88) were often finished to a higher strandard, the last few years of Kiev production runs were awful.  A few clever people like Gevorg Vartanyan bought up the stocks of bodies before the Arsenal camera factory shut down and have re-manufactured them to a high standard.  If you can get get one of his Arax bodies you'll have a reliable camera and the good (and cheap) Russian lenses.  I had a Salyut that never gave me a problem and a K88 that didn't either (except that the slow speeds were a little off) and I loved the range of lenses that I could get for very little money.  I gave the K88 to a friend in Leeds who has shot some wonderful stuff with it. 

They were made with two different lens mounts: K88 and Pentacon 6.  The later versions all used the P6 mount, which taps into yet another pool of good lenses. 

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 01:23:32 PM »
Terry beat me to it.

I was going to say I've not used one, but everything I read on line seemed to indicate it was worth paying the extra for an Arax rebuilt model.

http://araxfoto.com/cameras/

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sapata

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 02:04:42 PM »
as you mentioned 645 I'm with Peter R in recommending the mamiya 645 series. if I buy a mf slr I'll go square but if you like the 645 then I can tell you that atleast I think that the feel of quality in those cameras are impressive.

So true jojonas... I've got one of those beauties... it's a fantastic camera indeed even without the prism...

Matt,

The thing about Russian cameras (with the sole exception in my experience of the Kinor 35 movie cameras) is that mechanically they were inconsistent.  But much of the Russian glass is excellent, so people put up with the temperamental mechanics.


I second that as well....
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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 02:15:21 PM »
I have a Kiev 60 or maybe it's a 5c. Anyway, wonderful glass - and big - like an overgrown Zenit Slr. Great to use. But, they often have issues. Buy from Arax. Or get a folder Perkeo is fantastic]. My 'best' 6x6 is the kowa 6 - but you need to get a  good one or not at all.

Having said all that, I've taken some lovely snaps with the Ilford Sporti - cost me £4 and the glass is quite acceptable.

perkeo snaps http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=perkeo&w=30505166%40N00&s=int
KOWA snaps http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=KOWA&w=30505166%40N00&s=int
Sporti http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Ilford+sporti&w=30505166%40N00&s=int
Kiev http://www.flickr.com/search/?s=int&w=30505166%40N00&q=Kiev60&m=text


Chalky

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2012, 10:37:55 PM »
Thank you everyone for all the advice.

I think from what I have read and what people have said here, I am a little reluctant to risk a kiev 88, buying sounds like a bit of a minefield.

The mamiya TLRs sound great, my friend has one which I may try out, but to be honest it takes me so long to frame a pic with the lubitel I might stay away from another TLR.

I have also realised that the budget I had in my head was not realistic for one of these type of cameras!

Think I'll keep saving and investigate the bronica's more, as they seem like a good bet, and also keep my eye on the auctions and car boot sales for a lucky find.

thanks all for all the great advice, very much appreciated.

cheers,
Chalky

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2012, 11:14:57 PM »
I adore all the CCCP stuff but I'd not take pot luck on the 88. I bought a ropey 6c in Cuba, but only for peanuts. If you can hear a TLR the Mam C's are excellent.

So if it's SLR, not enough for a Hassy, and Mams are too heavy then Bronnie all the way, never heard them diss'd in the hood. (as it were).

DS

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2012, 12:36:43 AM »
I like the Pentacon 6. Cheap, and takes both the awesome Russian and Zeiss Jena lenses:


Terry

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2012, 01:18:23 AM »
I'm with you there, DS--if I'm shooting 6x6 it's either a Pentacon 6 or Ikoflex.  (Tip of the hat to Diane for selling me her P6.)

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2012, 04:46:52 AM »
Wow, Leon. That last shot is just heart-stopping. Amazing.

And DS, love the cake!

Chalky

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2012, 12:42:20 PM »
thanks everyone for continued info.

I'll investigate the pentacon 6 too.

Is it wrong to want one of those Bronica's because they just look so damn nice?!

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2012, 02:08:47 PM »
Wow, Leon. That last shot is just heart-stopping. Amazing.

Agreed a stunning photograph of the most awesome stretch of coastline in the UK in my opinion.
"An ounce of perception. A pound of obscure".

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 06:52:42 AM »
Is it wrong to want one of those Bronica's because they just look so damn nice?!

if it is then I don't want to be right! ;D
/jonas

LT

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2012, 08:42:30 AM »
Thanks Jack and Paul.
L.

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2012, 09:54:26 AM »
Haven't we been here before a few times on FW?

Chalky, run a search for some key phrases and I think you'll find two or three pretty extensive threads from the past few years about which budget MF cameras people recommend.

For the record, I owned and loved a Kiev 60, but sold it and its 3 lenses after a few years; bought 2 Bronicas (SQ-A and S2A) and haven't looked back.

Also, this may have been mentioned above (I haven't read all the posts), Skorj has written one of his fantastic articles about his recent Bronica purchases, so that might be a good point to start (it's on the Articles board http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=3856.0).
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 09:57:36 AM by ed.wenn »

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2012, 02:44:50 PM »
ed: since you have experience with both the SQ and older 6x6 bronnies, can you give a quick sum up on the pros and cons between them?
I've been checking avaliability on the older ones to and from but I've certanly seen more SQs, apparently they were popular in norway... mostly way expensive hassies here in sweden to be had :P
/jonas

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Re: medium format 6x6 SLR - Kiev 88?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2012, 09:26:09 PM »
There's a lovely Kiev 88 kit in the Canterbury Camera Centre ... Just Sayin'