Author Topic: I'm Getting Angry  (Read 8261 times)

Ed Wenn

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I'm Getting Angry
« on: August 27, 2011, 10:36:56 AM »
I've been monitoring prices of expired film on evilBay for a few months now and am constantly amazed by how much people are trying to sell expired, bargain bucket stuff for compared to the prices that real dealers sell film off for at photo fairs (like Photographica).

At Photographica we had Silverprint selling packs of 35mm APX for £1, and other dealers were marking all their film at £1.50 a roll (max).

Compare that to this pretty typical listing, where someone's trying to sell a roll of Tri-X from 1987 for £6.99 + £1.99 shipping!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160642264518&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123

Every so often I watch an item which I think is priced too high and they nearly never sell....and in pretty much every case you'll find a vendor like 7 Day Shop is selling brand new, in-date stock of the same, or similar film for less money than the idiots on eBay are charging for their knackered old stuff. The Fujifilm 100 instant film is a classic case of this. I've not seen anyone on eBay selling their expired FP100-C for less than 7 Day have it brand new...and now that 7 Day have reduced their prices even further for their short-dated stock the eBay prices are looking even more ridiculous.

eBay? Good for cameras. Rubbish for film.

Me, I'm off to a Boot Fair tomorrow morning in search of some proper cheap film  ;)

This-is-damion

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 11:02:38 AM »
does this mean the next Big Ray album will sound more like SSD?


moominsean

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 11:14:43 AM »
People seem to think that old = valuable, regardless of what it is actually worth.
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Francois

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 03:20:02 PM »
And for that, I blame the Antiques Roadshow...

It's the same thing around here for anything photographic. I've recently seen a Nikon F401 with a 50mm lens being advertised as a professional camera for 700$  >:(

Old stock film gets thrown in the trash instead of being sold at a rebate. It's not like the stuff is yogurt that is awaiting for the expiry date to start an all out bacterial attack on our bowels... it's film...

Lucky I stocked the freezer with stuff from the old grocery store lab when they were closing it down...
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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 03:49:42 PM »
Agreed!
It's a crazy thing to watch on the auction sites.

I've seen what Ed is talking about with the Fuji instant films.  Are people that woozy over prices?
Sheesh!

And actually I hope they just keep buying it at inflated prices so we can keep buying it for cheap at places like 7 Day, Adorama and B& H.

Besides with Adormana and B&H your chances are high for returning or exchanging if the film is bad.  I've never had a problem with Adorama.

choppert

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2011, 05:40:32 PM »

It's not like the stuff is yogurt that is awaiting for the expiry date to start an all out bacterial attack on our bowels... it's film...

Lucky I stocked the freezer with stuff from the old grocery store

Is it ok to freeze yoghurt?  :D :D
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Miller

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2011, 06:48:13 PM »
Ed

It's only going to get worse,  a few years from now you'll only wish for these times... LOL

We directly/indirectly are the victims of our own 'success'... Well this site is... More peeps fighting for finite film/gear.

Also, times be hard and for some selling and dabbling on the Bay is now a source of needed income... My mate buys photography gear/film from boot fairs etc constantly... Knows just enough about cameras to get by and has probably not taken a film image since the early 90's... He knows key word 'Lomo' 'expired' etc to attract the flock and bingo... If it doesn't sell so what says he, its 'stock' to him that will rise... I'm actually out with him this Tuesday at gulp 6.00 a.m.

Some people wouldn't know 7 Day if it bit them on the a55 and some are just addicted to auction bidding... Also globally my guess is some peeps just have a PayPal account and read limited or no English and don't want to drop credit card info etc to sundry internet vendors...

Unfortunately I've seen this all before with vinyl records...

In vintage audio prices have doubled and trebled for the legendary stuff as hardcore hobbyist/collectors have realised cash is worth nothing in terms of its return... Have you seen the price of a Polaroid 180 lately, only a ponzi scheme could get me a better return... LOL again...

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« Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 06:54:08 PM by Miller »
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Jack Johnson

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2011, 06:49:08 PM »
People seem to think that old = valuable, regardless of what it is actually worth.

And there's even some weird dynamics within that. For antique collectors, it hardly matters whether the camera works or not, just how it looks or how old it is. And occasionally you'll find something (camera or otherwise) that I think is undervalued, because even though few people want it at double the price you still couldn't find one if you wanted one, so it's you and one guy from Turkey battling it out for the only Graflex XLSW listed on evilBay in the last decade.

So poor Ed with his film is battling not just the remaining value of the remaining film, but the guy with his trunkload bootload of film hoping that he will encounter Ed and his nemesis simultaneously.

sapata

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2011, 09:12:31 PM »
I've given up with Polaroid ages ago and I'm about to do the same with films... I have to say I've found a few good "bargains" on very expired large format and some glass plates that I'm yet to try.

I guess because sellers can't use the Lomo name on those items the prices aren't that bad comparing to 120 or 35mm.
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Ed Wenn

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2011, 01:25:28 AM »
So poor Ed with his film is battling not just the remaining value of the remaining film, but the guy with his trunkload bootload of film hoping that he will encounter Ed and his nemesis simultaneously.

Well, yes and no...you see I'm not paying those prices, so I don't bid on film generally. Also, I never get into bidding wars. I bid what I'm prepared to pay and then forget about the auction until I either win or am outbid....but your point is well taken.

Abdul Hye

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2011, 02:39:06 AM »
I regret not buying more of the film. I bought 5 rolls since I hadn’t used it before. It’s an ok film. Sliverprint are selling them for £2 a roll now.

I hate it when people stick RARE in the title of description. Usually when they don’t know what it is and most of the time it’s not rare.

Ebay is the worst place to buy FP-100C.

I don’t like to use 7day because they are based in Guernsey. I prefer to shop locally and even pay VAT on it then shop from these off shore companies. They are not only cheating the tax man, and in us, but they are also putting local shops out of business.


sapata

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rpmdrd

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2011, 12:45:57 PM »
on a local forum I am a part of, they do get angry of people selling expired films like it was gold. so i think we share the same sentiments on this kind of people.

they target local lomographers in which who are gullible enough that expired film yields better results. to each is own, i guess.

Chalky

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 09:20:01 AM »
hi all,
I'm just about to put 3 rolls of expired Tmax p3200 in the for sale forum if anyone is interested... low prices ;-)


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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2011, 09:26:32 PM »
The prices I've seen for Fuji and TIP film on ebay are so stupid and I cant believe anybody would pay them. They are higher than they are buying from a real store or direct from the mfr. And the prices being charged for T55 film are beyond belief. The greed just astounds me. I am really rooting for the New 55. I hope they have something marketable soon so the people on eBay charging nearly 400 dollars for 1 pack of T55 lose a bunch of money on listing and not selling.
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admiral.asthma

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2011, 09:51:16 PM »
Quote from: ed.wenn
eBay? Good for cameras. Rubbish for film.

I have lost the count of the times that I have been ripped of by camera sellers. Things that have been listed as 'perfect' or 'pristine' has arrive at my house broken or in poor condition. Camera sellers are definitely a dishonest breed as well.

Alan

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2011, 10:06:04 PM »
I totally agree with Ed - some of the prices of expired film is totally crazy
and crazier still in that you can but fresh rolls cheaper ???

on the other hand there are good deals to be had in the expired department,
my last purchase was 20 rolls of Neopan SS, 40 rolls of Kodak Gold 100 and
20 rolls of Superia 100 - all 35mm and expired - delivered the price per roll
worked out @ €1.36 - happy days!

Here is another nice deal - price per roll works out @ €1.15 delivered or £1
in the UK >

http://www.ebay.ie/itm/160639347015?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


moominsean

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 01:02:41 AM »
Though I do find that cameras are generally cheaper and in better condition than those found in shops. There is a local place that has various Graflex cameras listed as 9+ condition online. Went to check them out and most were in fair condition and the viewfinder only worked in two of them. And they are $200+ more than near mint cameras with extras on eBay. Most online shops are more expensive as well. In Japan, store prices on cameras were generally outrageous compared to eBay, or even yahoo.jp...

Heck, just look at buy it now prices versus winning bids and you see sellers are mostly clueless all around.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 01:04:18 AM by moominsean »
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samantha

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 10:00:09 AM »

I just sold my last couple of packs of FP100C45 on the Bay for 5 quid each - they cost me a lot more to buy. I tried selling them at the same price as 7Day buy no-one bit. I think 5 quid was pretty fair, don't you? Essentially, I think ebay prices are shaped by market forces, plus a mixture of greed and ignorance. Greed from sellers and ignorance from buyers. This makes me really mad.
Most vintage cameras are overpriced on the bay, and most films. Blame the Lomo trend for this.


vicky slater

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #19 on: August 30, 2011, 10:33:44 AM »
Oh noes! This is making me feel anxious.
I have way less money than I had say 3 years ago to spend on film and it seems like the times on ebay where i could buy 100 rolls of 120 at an equivalent of 60p a roll have long gone, especially for those that are now discontinued too like the 800z and the astia.
Just sad :(

LeonY

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #20 on: August 30, 2011, 12:41:08 PM »
Yeah there is this one guy on ebay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290600974964&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123


Bulk roll of t-max400, expired 10/2010 for $44.95+$7usd shipping per pack. I can get fresh film in Melbourne for the same price. When i contacted him, his response was:
"The price is fair where it is; I have sold most of my stock already. Thanks for your interest."

what rubbish! Fair enough, free world and all, but i am not buying it. On the other hand, there were a bunch of people in Australia who were selling their entire stock of Kodak Hawkeye and Rollie Surveillance film(i think it was rollei?...) They were selling it as low as $20 per bulk reel(100ft), I bought up 5 of each, its great stuff, even though it expired 01/11(which is pretty much still good!) And these 2 sellers still have heaps(if anyone is interested i can put you in touch)

al

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2011, 05:40:37 PM »
I can get fresh film in Melbourne for the same price. When i contacted him, his response was:
"The price is fair where it is; I have sold most of my stock already. Thanks for your interest."

what rubbish! Fair enough, free world and all, but i am not buying it.

I'll put my cards on the table here and say that a fair proportion of my income comes from online trading (cue boos hisses and rotten tomatoes) not film cameras or film though.  My response would have been the same as the seller.  If I'm shifting stock at a higher price why would I be interested in dropping my earnings?  It's always worth making an offer to a seller though, but if he rejects it then it's no good getting in a tizz.  As Miller says in his post, sellers who know their market don't mind holding on their stock to get maximum returns and there are way more than enough people out there with money burning holes in their pockets who aren't prepared to look further than the end of their noses to support what seem like crazy prices.  The sellers are obtaining the stuff cheaper, if you want bargains you have to work for it.... seek and ye shall find!!  :)

Wensleydale Blue

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2011, 10:15:51 AM »
I bought twelve rolls of 1980's Tri-x in four film packs from a private seller on Ebay about nine months ago to shoot in my half frame Olly Pen.  I only paid £17 for them and the first four films were great - very nice gritty grain which seemed a bit more pronounced and random than today's film and lovely contrast. Looks great on 10x8 prints from the small negs that the Pen produces. But I've just processed the first film from the second box and its seriously fogged - very dark and all of the rebates are a deep gray.  Shame - there's a few lovely images on there but that the risk you take I suppose.  I am not sure I'd want to pay more than £3-4 a roll for expired stuff but on the Pen it seems a nice thing to do even if the results are fitful.  I even get some pleasure just looking at the vintage film boxes.  Not sure the point I am trying to make other than there are some good deals out there.  Good rule of thumb seems to be if the seller mentions the word Lomo, stay well clear!

G

LeonY

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 01:17:46 AM »
This is classic! here is an example of film which is at good value!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Kodak-Tri-X-35mm-bulk-film-rolls-3-/160648096402?pt=AU_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories&hash=item25675f6a92#ht_500wt_1156

Friendly tip to everyone, use frost free refrigeration when storing film, or your canisters end up looking like this!

Ken B: eyes, I just do eyes.

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 12:19:53 PM »
Good rule of thumb seems to be if the seller mentions the word Lomo, stay well clear!

G

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Ed Wenn

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2011, 12:46:09 PM »
if you want bargains you have to work for it.... seek and ye shall find!!  :)

Yep, can't argue with that, Al. Getting up early for a Boot Sale is definitely more effort than trawling eBay.

I was primarily making a comment on a sneaking suspicion I have that some sellers may think they can/should charge MORE for film when it's out of date, in fact because it's out of date even when the same item is cheaper at a photo retailer and still in-date. I like expired film as much (possibly more than) the next person, but I don't buy it in order to tap into a prevailing aesthetic or with the expectation that my photos will look different. I buy it because it's cheap and because it generally gives the same results as in-date film.

If the film expired in 1974 then I might expect to find the unexpected upon processing, but if it expired in 2004 then the only reason I'd buy it is if it's cheaper than new stock. If it's really old, not made any more, collectible....whatever, then I'd expect to pay more than the going rate for an equivalent. But why would I buy a used football for £10 when I can get a new one for £5?

And this leads onto my other point. When I've watched the progress of a particularly expensive film on eBay, I find it rarely sells.

The irony in all of this however, is that since posting the original rant, I've had an amazing run of buying cheap Polaroid film on eBay. I'm getting lots of Type 100 film for very reasonable prices.

Francois

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2011, 03:57:10 PM »
When it comes to film (and pretty much everything in life), my motto is simply "Never pay full price"...
Francois

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2011, 04:03:10 PM »
When it comes to film (and pretty much everything in life), my motto is simply "Never pay full price"...

Unless its the loan shark come by to pick up payment  ;) ;D
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LT

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2011, 04:19:59 PM »
FWIW - my general attitude with film is to pay for quality and reliability.  Expired film does not fall into this bracket.
L.

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2011, 04:30:15 PM »
FWIW - my general attitude with film is to pay for quality and reliability.  Expired film does not fall into this bracket.

LT - International man of no mysteries  ;) ;) ;D

Leon don't you like the empty feeling in your gut as you take once in a life time shots with dodgy film.

Get out out on the edge man!
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sapata

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2011, 10:11:41 PM »
Good rule of thumb seems to be if the seller mentions the word Lomo, stay well clear!

G

Lomo = Lamo

I get so #*~% angry with people putting the name Lomo in EVERYTHING related to photography to the point of fighting over via email with the seller!! >:(
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Coveman

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Re: I'm Getting Angry
« Reply #31 on: September 07, 2011, 10:25:17 PM »
stick to the charity shops! thats where the good stuff is! got my koroll 24 this weekend for £6.50 :)