Topic: Film wasting in France

[Urban Hafner]

I turns out I'll be wasting film in France (Grenoble specifically) from September on for about two years as my wife got a post-doc position there. I'm quite excited and I'm just starting to figure things out (after all it's still a few months), but any tips would be appreciated. Where to buy film (i.e. French only stores to save on shipping), where to get it developed (do drug store chains do that in France, especially just develop the film without any prints or scans). Also, what are the laws (in theory and practice)? In Germany for example you're not allowed to take pictures of people without asking them beforehand. (!) And anything else you can think of (even if it's not related to film).

Thanks in advance,

    Urban

[Miles]

It's beautiful there, you're very lucky 

Have friends in Voiron nearby that teach at the Uni in Grenoble.

Not overly "urban" though 

[Urban Hafner]

Not overly "urban" though 

True. And that's a good thing Like my wife said: "We're moving from one beautiful city (Heidelberg) to another".

Urban

[Francois]

The French laws are a real pain in the a** when it comes to photography.
I have a magazine with a long article about the subject that was published a few years ago.
Do you read French? If you do, I'll scan and post it on the site. It's pretty lengthy so it would be easier to just read the thing than it would be for me to try and get all the details here.

[Urban Hafner]

That would be great Francois! My French isn't that good anymore, but it will certainly improve until September

Urban

[LT]

I should imagine the French privacy laws will be much the same as the German, Urban. AFAIK, the UK is the only EU member without its own formal privacy law - hence the judiciary trying to force the government's hand with all these ridiculous super-injunctions.

I think it all depends on the intentions of the photographer though.  I should think you would be ok provided you didn't intend to sell or publish your pics.

You will no doubt want to verify this though.

[Francois]

Believe me Leon, in France, it's much worse than anywhere in the world!
Thing is they have both photographer's rights and image ownership rights.

For instance, you can take a picture of the Eiffel tower in the daytime but not at nighttime. Thing is since it was built so long ago, it's now public domain. But at night it's a whole other story. Thing is the guy who designed the lighting scheme for it has rights on his creation. So, taking a photo at night would simply equal copying his concept and thus is copyright infringement...

[LT]

good point F - I was thinking only about privacy, not public spaces/ buildings ....

[Francois]

I just scanned and OCR the text (I didn't bother spellchecking it but at least it's easier to paste the text into google translate )
Here's the link on my Imageshack drive
http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4575/imagesmall.pdf

I know it's pretty lengthy but if anyone needs help, I'll gladly translate and explain it.

Actually Leon, there's a big difference between the UK and France. They use the French Civil Code while the UK uses Common Law (correct me if I'm wrong here). This leads to a whole bunch of problems for photographers in France.

We have the same problems here but Quebec photographers have come to the point where they just don't give a d*** about the laws in place and just go the "I'll pay if I get caught" route.

Since my article goes back to 2003, things might have changed a bit over there... but on the legal side, things are still the same.

[LT]

That's exactly what I said Francois

The traditional rule under the English legal system is the common law principle of confidence. But since the Human Rights Act was enacted in 2000, our courts have had to consider the European convention on human rights and precedent from the European court, which includes a right to a private life. But in general, the HRA only applies to cases against the state/ public bodies and claims between private individuals were not available until a recent judgment on a case involving press intrusion where it was ruled that article 8 rights apply to private individuals also.

So we have an odd position here where we have no home-grown statutory or common law rule that covers privacy, but we have to harmonise our confidence cases with the Strasbourg court rulings on article 8 rights to privacy.

The overrarching nature of the Euro Convention means that cases on privacy should in theory anyway, result in the same judgment, no matter which of the ratifying states it is heard in, and if not, we can still take it to Strasbourg anyway.    

[Francois]

I guess the House of Parliament and the House of Lords will have some fun with that...

[seekingfocus]

For instance, you can take a picture of the Eiffel tower in the daytime but not at nighttime. Thing is since it was built so long ago, it's now public domain. But at night it's a whole other story. Thing is the guy who designed the lighting scheme for it has rights on his creation. So, taking a photo at night would simply equal copying his concept and thus is copyright infringement...

Not exactly. You are certainly allowed to take a photo of the Eiffel Tower, any time of day or night, weather the lights are on or not... The complication comes when trying to sell the image. Uses for personal or editorial purposes hold no implied liability in either case. However, the copyright infringement comes in when an image taken during the light show (which is a copyrighted work of 'art' - call it what you will) is sold for commercial purposes (eg: advertisement, etc.) in which case a property release would be necessary. The Sydney Opera House is a similar example: fine for editorial or personal use, art, etc., but no commercial sales.

Urban- I live back and forth between Germany and France when I am on the continent, and have never had any problems taking photos in public in either place. In France, I do tend to do a lot of urban exploration, and at worst the Gendarmes will simply ask you to leave if you happen to be on private property (only in urban areas) and they feel like 'working', but I have never been asked questions as to my activities when they see the camera in my hand. On the contrary, it's usually a great conversation starter, especially when they realize they are dealing with a foreigner with a funny accent who has a camera older than they are.

I'm from the States, so French police are quite cheery and friendly in comparison!

As for developing film, most large supermarchés will have film developing services. Can't vouch for the quality, but they are usually cheap. In Grenoble you will certainly find many higher quality possibilites as well, and even very small towns will usually have at least one dedicated 'camera shop' which is more of a place where you can develop, print, buy (sometimes) 35mm film, and cheap digital gear. More professional services are harder to come by (I live in a tiny village in Limousin, if that gives you an idea!) and I save up my film and bring it back to Germany or the States when I go and develop there.

Have fun,
Jason

[Urban Hafner]

Thanks Jason. That's good to know. I don't care too much for the quality of processing (I develop B/W myself and C41 is standardized anyway), but maybe I'll use it as an excuse to do my color neg at home, too.

Urban

[mark, fourstarfilm.com]

On the practical side, the main chain here I suppose is Phox, sort of like Jessops in that it has no soul and the staff tend to be only rudimentarily trained.

I get my films dev only for around 6 euros and wouldn't pay more than that, and all of my slides take atleast a week, looking more at 2, which are all sent off, I can't find anywhere to do it on site in Aix-en-Provence, (where I'm living), or Marseille, so I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if you find better in Grenoble.

For someone who's used to getting his dev done at ASDA for £2 this is a blow, and not even necessarily with better service. Also la poste being more expensive than Royal Mail, ebay seems to be a lot less active over here.

I'm sorry to be so pessimistic, but atleast when I was living in Germany I could go to Schlecker or Rossman, the former existing also in France, but being not cheap and taking an ice age to return.

So stock up and be patient is my advice, remembering that you are being rewarded with the beauty of France, which I have to say for an Englishman is still incredible for me. AND, if you are ever around Aix-en-Provence or Marseille and the Calanques and need a little showing around, I'd be more than happy to help.

Mark

[Urban Hafner]

Thanks Mark. Those 6EUR are just for development or do you get prints with it, too? If it's just the development then doing it at home seems even more interesting.

And thanks for the offer! Maybe we'll manage to do more trips in France than we did here in Germany.

Urban