Topic: Looking to buy a view camera

[Mojave]

and I have some questions.

I would really like a Speed Graphic and from what I can tell, I can get a decent working one off eBay for around 500 USD. Some are less, some are more, depending on the condition and accessories, but the average going rate is around 500.

My main question is, what benefits, other than a larger neg, do I get from getting a 4x5 vs the smaller, I think 2x3 camera? The smaller cameras are cheaper and seem to have all the same functions but I just dont know if the film is as accessible for the smaller cams or if they create the same kind of tilt shift images.

Also, are there other view cameras out there that are better than the Speed Graphic but pretty close to the same price in general?

And one last thing. Are the Polaroid backs for the Speed Graphic cameras easy to get or are they easier to get for other view camera models?

Thanks all. I appreciate any help anybody can offer. I've been eyeballing these cameras for close to a year now and Im pretty certain I want to take the plunge and get one, but I've been putting it off because of these issues.

[Dave Elden]

...other than a larger neg, do I get from getting a 4x5 vs the smaller, I think 2x3 camera?
...And one last thing. Are the Polaroid backs for the Speed Graphic cameras easy to get

2x3 film is not so readily available as 4x5 and you may have less choice of emulsions.
Polaroid backs are not camera specific are they?  I would think they would be pretty cheap and available now with the limited availability of film to go in them.

[Blaxton]

A 4x5 Graphic should be about the same price as a 2x3.  4x5 would be a much more flexible option.  It would have a longer bellows, a wider range of movements, a larger focusing glass, and, with its international back,  would accommodate film sizes 6x6cm, 6x7cm, 6x9cm roll film (with roll film back), 4x5inch sheet film as well as Polaroid.

Another question is why a Speed Graphic instead of a Crown Graphic?  To me the extra weight and bulk of the Speed Graphic's focal plane shutter isn't worth whatever possible gain one might get from the second shutter.

I love using my Crown Graphic with 90mm Super Angulon, 150mm G-Claron, 210mm Sironar lenses, 6x7, 6x9 roll film backs and, of course, 4x5 sheet film.  (These things I have accumulated, used, over time.  At $350, only the 210mm Sironar was expensive.)  I removed the rangefinder so that I could make the camera and all the lenses and accessories fit in a small backpack.  A very nice detail is that the 150mm G-Claron is small enough to remain on the folded camera.  This makes for very quick set up. The outfit is so convenient that, despite having also a metal field camera and a monorail view camera, I use the Graphic most often.  

[sapata]

Not really an expert on large format but I love shooting with my Toyo 4x5 camera, I wouldn't bother with the 2x3 format, as someone already mentioned you can use a film roll which is convenient as well.

[Francois]

The 2x3 format is only useful if you can find a rollfilm back for it.
I too can vouch for the 4x5 format if you want to be able to find film easily in sheet form.
It also gives you more choice when it comes to lenses, especially in the wide angles. Don't forget that if a 90mm is pretty much a fisheye on a sheet of 4x5, the same lens will be pretty close to the normal lens on a 2x3.

The model you choose will also depend on the amount of movement you want. A studio type view camera has lots of movement. A field camera has quite a bit less. And a press camera is even more limited.

I too have a Crown Graphic and can vouch for its robustness (the previous owner essentially did everything to "kill" it! ).

But price wise, you might want to also take a look at other brands like Burke & James. They were Graflex's main competitor.

Also, the graphic type cameras usually need you to rotate the camera to shoot vertical frames. This also means a lot less available movement.

[Mojave]

Awesome info so far everybody! Thank you! So at least I am going to rule out the smaller cam because of the film options. The Toyo is nice but out of my price range I think. I did some quick checking and the min price seems to be 1000 USD and several were at least 2k. The Crown Graphic looks good and is about the same price and the Speed Graphic and both are by Graflex, I think.

Im not sure how to tell the difference between a studio, field or press camera though. Can anybody help me with that? I will google it too.

Thanks again all!

[gothamtomato]

I was recently talking to a photographer about this. He is a street photographer who has been using a Speed Graphic since 1959. I said I was thinking about getting one on eBay and he said that wasn't a good idea because you can't inspect the bellows. He says that you have to take care to inspect the bellows because to repair them can cost as much as $800. He said you're better off waiting til you can find one at a dealer you can trust. I have no idea if that's the right advice, but that's what he said & I tend to believe him.

[Mojave]

Im sure that is very good advice and I thank you very much for offering it. I just dont have a dealer out here that I know of that sells these cameras, let alone a dealer I trust. Im very jealous of these used camera shops the UK FW's talk about. 

I wont buy an untested camera on eBay, though I know that just because they say they are tested doesnt mean they actually have been. So far I havent had a problem but then I havent ever bought a camera with bellows of eBay either. Ah, its a risk, I know, but one I will most likely have to make since I want one of these cameras very badly and I dont have a place to get them otherwise.

[sapata]

Im not sure how to tell the difference between a studio, field or press camera though. Can anybody help me with that? I will google it too.

Thanks again all!

As far as I know the view cameras have more possibilities with the movements and is better for architectural subjects, I don't know how big is the difference though. With the view cameras you won't be able to hand held and requires a sturdy and good tripod with a decent head so you have always loads to carry, reason why I don't shoot too much with mine. The press cameras seems to be lighter and faster to shoot.

[astrobeck]

Hey Mojave,
You might try KEH.

I think they have a return policy if the camera is not what you expected.

I've bought cams from them and have been very pleased so far, and their ratings are in line so if they say it's excellent, it really means excellent.

 

[gothamtomato]

I second that emotion (KEH). They have a great reputation and they tend to under evaluate the equipment they sell (meaning it's in better than advertised condition). But if there is a problem, they make good on it.

[Mojave]

I've never heard of KEH. I'll check them out now. Thank you both!!

[Mojave]

I couldnt find any large format cameras in my price range the site. I might just email them to see what they have.

[gregor]

In the States there's Badger Graphics - a large format specialist with used gear - based in Wisconsin as well as Blue Moon Photo in Portland Oregon.  Both are exceptionally honest, don't bump prices unfairly and are enthusiastic about photography and photographers... 

I've dealt with Blue Moon a fair amount and have always come away with a good experience.  If you talk to them try to see if you can talk with Zeb (although they are all very knowledgeable).  I just recently picked up the Zero Image 45 deluxe from them. A friend picked it up for me and said they were so thrilled to tell him all about the camera that he himself, not a camera buff by any means, was inspired to try out the roll film model..

You may want to consider other camera models.  For the price of an excellent speed graphic you should also be able to pick up a used toyo 45cf or a very lightweight monorail, a Cambo  ($300 - 400 tops with a lens).... The Cambo is an excellent route into large format.

[Mojave]

Thank you so much Gregor!!! I will check them out. I found some more Toyos for less than what I found when I first looked so that is promising. I havent heard of the Cambo but will start looking for them now.

[Mojave]

Holy cow, that Blue Moon place has a ton of used equipment for sale. Wow!!!

[gregor]

here's a quick pdf on getting started with large format from View Camera magazine.  It rightly states you're 1st consideration should be the lens and then pick the camera that works with the lens that is best suited for you:

http://www.viewcamera.com/documents/VC_Getting_Started.pdf

Nothing's more frustrating than spending a fair amount of cash to find out the results from the lens is less than desirable.

On the Speed (or Crown) Graphic, matching it with an Ektar lens is awesome (ask Ann!) as well as a few other lenses. The commonly found speed graphics matched with Wollensak lenses may leave you less than satisfied moving from MF to LF....

[Francois]

I havent heard of the Cambo but will start looking for them now.

Damion had a Cambo. They're well made and have parts readily available for replacement or upgrade.

Also, look into the older lenses. Most of them are just as good as the more recent ones.

You might also want to read this
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

[Mojave]

Wow, this is all very intimidating but Im not going to give up! It might take me a while to gather all the equipment I need and it might require wasting a bunch of film, but Im determined to do this.

Im going to read those articles, thank you both. I understand how different lenses can give different results. Is the Ektar lens a much better lens than the Wollensak lenses?

And it was Ann's beach pictures that caused me to make up my mind and buy a large format. I have found lots of cameras that have the Ektar lens so that is good.

[Francois]

Don't look at lens make. The 4x5 lenses are mostly excellent. Wollensak shutters are very reliable.
Just make sure you have a retaining ring to go with it.

A long time ago, I got at a company junk sale a big box of photo gear. Everything was in fairly bad shape. There was a Crown graphic which needed a bit of patching on the bellows... not too hard to do. I used it until I ran out of Polaroid film for the back I had.

[original_ann]

I went with a Speed Graphic because I only use the focal plane shutter and also wanted the option to attach funky old barrel type shutter-less lenses if I ever decided to play around with that.

I would say if you decide to go with an Graflex camera, try to get a graflok back instead of the spring back so that you can use a 405 type polaroid back and shoot medium format pack film, which is far more economical (and, as far as Fuji is concerned, readily available)    

The graflok backs let you use a Polaroid's 550 back as well which fits Fuji's 4x5 instant film

Happy shopping!  

[Mojave]

Thank you both! I will keep it all in mind. Im finding that the Ektar lenses below 4.7 are very pricey items indeed. That lens just might have to wait awhile. 

[gregor]

I beg to differ on lens choice. It's quite relevant if you're investing money as opposed to getting a freebie from a friend (as in the case of my Speed Graphic with a Wollensak, which was handed down to me by the original owner) or otherwise. The lens just didn't do it for me - but popping a friend's Ektar on it did.

If you're investing good money in a kit, just like a pro TLR, a hassy or leica you want a lens you like and camera body compatibility is a factor in that.  

To contrast, in the MF arena, I chose a mamiya c330 (giving up my hassy) as I prefer the Mamiya Sector 80mm lens over the Zeiss Planar t* 80mm.  

All lenses are not created equal ;-)

[Mojave]

Gregor, what was the min fstop on that Ektar you got?

[gregor]

it was a friends and it was an Aero Ektar 178mm/f-2.5. Sweet lens but I would guess pricey. I know the 305mm usually goes for 500+ USD.

You can always get a starter lens and move up the ladder later on.  I would suggest **not** looking at other people's photos but look at your work and say this is where I want to go with a 4x5 and then talk to Blue Moon about that for suggestions.

[Mojave]

Thank you again! I will start with what I can afford and go from there. EEEEE!!! Im so excited. 

[Jack Johnson]

To contrast, in the MF arena, I chose a mamiya c330 (giving up my hassy) as I prefer the Mamiya Sector 80mm lens over the Zeiss Planar t* 80mm.  

Just out of curiosity, what didn't you like about the Planar? I have a 35mm Planar with no body (yet) that I've been dying to use.

[gregor]

The planar, it's precision. I prefer a softer lens. The Mamiya Sekor, Blue dot 80mm is crisp enough that I can diffuse a shot for further softness in darkroom, or some are just right out the can.

The hassy as a camera, the mirror slap. never was much of an SLR person....  it's just a matter of taste and personal aesthetic.  TLRs or rangefinders are my personal preferences for roll film cameras.