Topic: Troubleshooting advice for my C41 Development?

[original_ann]

Did my 2nd batch last night and first time developing 6 sheets of 160S (all from Quickloads) in a Jobo Tank with the sheets on reels.

A few have left me wondering what I did to them.  I simply don't have the experience to know (so I'm hoping perhaps others may be able to give their thoughts): 

1. Odd streaks on the farm house on the sides, at the tops... almost look like light leaks, but are light leaks with quickloads common?

2. Fall pics - both taken moments apart, same exposure settings... yet one is so much more green than the other

3. The self portrait in a mirror - hmmm, not really seeing a green cast.  But what is that line across the top as if part was developed longer than than the other portion?

I'm trying to picture this on the reel, in the tank, spinning... and can't figure out what that line could be.  I just went in my dressing room and checked the mirror to see if it does some weird ghosting, possibly making a line appear.  I'm staring but without the bright daylight under incandescent it's hard to tell... it's possible....

I'm confused why the problems weren't consistent across all sheets - ie. all the same amount of green cast (what the heck does that indicate, by the way?) all with the same amount of streaking etc...   

Overall, however, I'm quite relieved that I didn't do as much damage as I worried I might (but certainly wanting to improve). 

Thanks in advance for passing a critical eye over the lot

EDIT: I didn't know my pics would come out so small.  sorry about that.

[moominsean]

yeah i never really get consistent results with home color developing. too many variables that are normally controlled by a computer, i guess. the band on the bottom looks like a bubble, maybe there was a slight wobble on the film and some air got caught for part of the development. i get that with 4x5 bw developing sometimes. 4x5 is probably tougher in general to gain consistent results, and color just compounds the problems. streaks and such are common. maybe try a bit more developer in the canister. so there is less air space and more fluid? but i guess you don't want it all the way full or the circulation of chemicals isn't happening.

home kits probably have variables in the chemicals, as well, with sediment, etc. affecting development. color negs are always "off" and usually require correction, anyway. i doubt you will ever get really even results with a home kit.

i've been shooting 4x5 color slide film but having it developed at a lab ($1.70 a shot, so not too bad). the film types are incredibly variable in terms of color cast, as well.

lovely pictures, though!

[original_ann]

 I suppose I could live with color correction but hope I don't get a lot of the streaking and banding - too difficult to rectify.  1.70 per sheet - oh my word, that's awesome Sean!  I had been paying 6 for slide.

[astrobeck]

1.70 a sheet??!!!

Where?  I need to use that lab too.

Ann_ I like the pix.  I've never used quickloads, so have no idea about them leaking, etc.

[gregor]

a green cast may mean the developing temperature was too cool - however that would then affect all sheets so that theory doesn't hold well.  Potentially the temperature where it was shot may have played into it if it was really cold outside.

The leak I would guess was in camera rather than in developing. try developing film all shot in the same lighting & temperature conditions and see what happens.

[moominsean]

1.70 a sheet??!!!

Where?  I need to use that lab too.

Ann_ I like the pix.  I've never used quickloads, so have no idea about them leaking, etc.

http://www.colormark.com/

i've experienced leaky quickloads. i like that they are easy, but leaks are a bit of a bummer...

[Skorj]

These look pretty good to me! I love artifacts... Skj.

[original_ann]

That colormark's prices are amazing!!!

[original_ann]

Gregor - green could mean temperatures too cool - - okay I will be mindful of that.  The thermometer was reading 100.2 the entire time in the bath, (chems in the bath, too) but of course I take the tank out of the bath to drain and it's possible it didn't average out warm enough.  I'll go a tiny bit higher and see how that goes. 

The first film I developed (same temps) was a roll of 160NC and 400NC - they both came out fine - just minor color correction.

I see that the instructions for my chems said 39C/102F for manual/inversion type development, but 38C/100F for auto-rotation.  Maybe I should have gone with 39C/102F, particularly given how cold my basement has been.

[LT]

Ann - the 2 160S-fall-pkglot-untouched shot is amazing - really intense colours.

I'm really struggling with even development with 5x4 sheetfilm  - and I'm only doing black and white! I cant imagine how frustrating it must be with all the added complexities of the colour process.  But please keep it up - your use of that Aero-Ektar is stupendous.  I want to see much more please

[Francois]

Somehow, when thinking about the uneven colors from sheet to sheet, the first thing that comes to mind is conservation. If they came from different batches or were kept in different environments, it could affect the degradation of the pigments to quite some degree.

As for the spots on the images, could be contamination from a previous job... but I don't really know.

The drag lines could be bromide drag... but I doubt it.

[gregor]

I don't think a degree or two would have a radical effect on color cast. +/- 4 or 5 degrees f or more could alter it. Timing may also be a factor.  Just like printing and the snatch point....  Under developing could be the variable causing the green cast. "Pull processing" c-41 usually results in a green cast.

But if your timing is on target, increasing the temp should bring out the red & yellow, which indicates those you posted may have been developed too cool in the temp.

[Photo_Utopia]

Here is a link to the Fuji C41 tech manual
http://www.fujihunt.com/fuji/testjb.nsf/d2fd339f5f8a85de80256880005be90d/0d31022bd9c64336c1256ee000531d78?OpenDocument
you need the top PDF then go to the trouble shooting section at the end
In most cases process variation in temperature affects the blue layer too high temperature blue cast, to low yellow highlights. Cyan casts can be due to exposure, although in my experience (250,000+ films) problems tend to be difficult to track down with prints/scans, a digi snap of the film will show me more.
Did you use a pre-wet? sometimes with certain types of processor you get a standing wave effect, others streaks can be local temp variations (I remember our dip and dunk was colder at the bottom of the tank than the top)
But generally these look OK, I process most of my own colour and have few problems. though sheets are harder IMHO
Mark

[original_ann]

Thanks for all the ideas everyone!  I've got so much to learn - I think I'll up the temp a degree and see how that goes (even though I agree with you Gregor - .5F degrees is almost negligible). 

Photo Utopia - thank you for finding this for me, I'd never have found it.  I see one problem listed on p.30 as "High values in D-Min, Green values highest" - I don't even know what this means in laymen's terms.  If it can be translated to mean 'green cast'? well then perhaps my problem is what is lists here. 
http://www.fujihunt.com/apps/fuji/fujifilmnv.nsf/files/technical%20bulletins%20C41/$file/TB%20C41%20E13%2009-10.pdf

[Photo_Utopia]

Ann "High values in D-Min, Green values highest" essentially means the clear part of the film looks darker sometimes quite red/brown rather than normal I hashed up something that might help.
The graphic below on the left would represent a good d-min (sometimes called base or stain) which is the clear part of the film (like between frames)
The centre portion could have been overdeveloped or have inactive or insufficient bleach, on the right would be a chemical contamination or fogging.
The only way to know is to look at the negs, scans prints etc can be a false witness.
But looking at them they look fine apart from some marks probably caused by agitation, the 3:15 dev time can be a hard thing to master, because its so short agitation is more critical.
One last thing-did you pre wash the film? I'd say you were less likely to get swirls and density irregularities if you pre-wet
Mark

[original_ann]

Interesting... there was one sheet (the farmhouse I posted above) that had a very, very dark negative - dark brown.  But the rest aren't like that.  I wish I knew its position in the tank/on the reel so that I could better try to understand why one but not the others.   The troubleshooting says this would indicate oxidized developer and/or bleach, or underactive developer.  This is my 2nd development using these chemicals (the 1st of which I did ~2-3 days prior... wonder if it oxidized that fast.

I didn't prewet because the jobo chemical instructions said only to preheat for auto-rotary development.

Do you know of a resource site where I could go to read up on understanding D-mins and these descriptions such as 'green values highest', 'blue values lowest' etc? I want to learn. 

[Photo_Utopia]

Ann
You're getting into the realms of densitometry, its a complex subject. I did several courses over the years. But basically you don't need to go there. If you do try and get hold of a process manual-Fuji do an excellent one with curves and images with % values for every different fault. I have the E6 one.
Really though these are for people who put on control test strips and replenish their chemistry, not hobby kits.

The darker sheet sounds like it is either overdeveloped or most likely under bleached. You can re-bleach to your hearts content, just put the bleach in a tray and give the sheet another 6 mins.
Bleach likes oxygen just before use (unlike developer) to 'condition' it I put mine in a bottle and shake for 1 min before I use it.
Commercial labs aerate the bleach during use, and check the ph to make sure its acidic (after 8 or so films it gets dev carry over that makes it less so)
EDIT:
I can still access the Fujitech site here is their page on bleach faults:

Mark