Topic: water as paper stop bath?

[formica]

are there alternatives to using stop bath for paper development? can a tray of straight water be used? or dilluted vinegar be used?

           william

[LT]

water can be used, but you have to be very careful to stop the development before you go to the fixer otherwise you may experience dichroic fog - a sort of foggy-sheen across the surface of the paper.  If you do use water, probably best to either change water a couple of times for each print, or have several trays filled with water to place the prints in for a while in each, but this will also need changing regularly.

Personally, i never use stop with film, but I always do with paper.  A bit of fog on a neg can be printed through, but it will ruin a print.

You could use some citric acid in powder form if you can find it - about 15g per litre of water.

I suppose vinegar can be used, but I would be concerned about how the other chemicals in the vinegar would affect the print.

Hope that helps

L

[Heather]

Sometimes in certain ethnic food shops you can find "nonbrewed condiment" or just plain acetic acid. That's similar to vinegar, though be very careful and read labels and handle appropriately. Recently I found in a local deli they sell 30% acetic acid  I assume there's a food purpose for it and due to the fact it's non-brewed it'll be alcohol free but still, it's a little scary. I think that's basically glacial acetic acid levels, isn't it 

I think you're generally looking for about 2% acidity with stop bath so normal vinegar is 5% acidity so you can do 1:1 dilution with water and get to 2.5% (though if you have hard water like I do, it probably is closer to 2% due to the dissolved calcium carbonate in the tap water).

[formica]

thanks for the response heather and leon. i'm nearly out of stop and was mainly wondering if anyone used alternatives for stop. i'm getting low on the stop i have so i'll probably just go ahead and buy some more when this is gone.

         william

[Francois]

Just use plain white vinegar diluted 50-50 with water.
It's very cheap and I read at quite a few places that it works very well.

[astrobeck]

I also use plain white distilled vinegar diluted 50-50 with water for stop when I am developing paper.

Good luck!   

[Diane Peterson]

soo......I am confused..(which is not unusual)...Can plain white vinegar that has been diluted be used as a stop for film?  I have stopped using "stop" bath some time ago replacing with water but curious about the vinegar....

[Heather]

I would say it is okay if it's "white" vinegar. The problem here is most people think of vinegar in the UK as malt vinegar which is coloured brown with caramel usually. That'd be less than optimal for prints probably.
White vinegar in the UK is known as Distilled Malt Vinegar... which I guess it is to a point. Not sure how it's made but it is crystal clear. 

[Diane Peterson]

Thank you Heather..yes I would definitely be using the "white " vinegar....

[LT]

The problem here is most people think of vinegar in the UK as malt vinegar which is coloured brown with caramel usually.

Only the working and underclasses Heather.  Us nouveau lower middle classes can only think of a good quality balsamic reduction or maybe a vinagre de Jerez.

I'm not sure what effect a good Aceto Balsamico di Modena would have on my prints - maybe it will add a nice tone?

[LT]

Proper malt vinegar is made from a beer type process (hence the malt). White vinegar is this distilled.  Simples.

[formica]

ah, this clears things up quite a bit. i'll have to see if vinegar is actually cheaper than the stop solution here. the bottle we have in the house is quite small.

             william

[Francois]

It probably is. I got a 4 liter jug of the no-name stuff for something like 3$.
It's clear (that's how you'll know if it's the right stuff), cheap and gives the place the slight smell of a french fries stand (or the inside of a bag of vinegar flavored chips)

White vinegar is essentially acetic acid in a dilute form.

Besides, you can use it with baking soda to clean almost anything.

[moominsean]

i stopped using stop bath awhile ago because it kept eating little holes in my emulsions. I just use water now, fogging hasn't been an issue (for film).

[Roger Thoms]

I use running water for my stop bath for both film and paper. This is done in conjunction with Photographers Formulary TF-4 Archival Fixer. TF-4 is an alkaline fixer so an acid stop bath is not necessary. Developer is alkaline and regular fixer is acid. One of the purposes of an acid stop bath is to neutralize the developer on the print before it goes it the fixer thus extending the life of the fixer.

The main reason I changed to TF-4 was to eliminate the acid stop bath which would occasionally cause pinholes in my negative. Haven't had any pinholes with the water stopbath. Other advantages include shorter wash times, no HCA needed, greater capacity than acid fixers

There is a good explanation on alkaline fixers in The Darkroom Cookbook by Steve Anchell. A book that I highly recommend for anyone doing darkroom work.

Roger