Author Topic: Vintage 6x6 rf folders (Read 14382 times)

LT · « **on:** November 14, 2010, 09:44:53 AM »

There's been some tantalising talk of 6x6 folders here recently. So much so that I'm in the Market for one. Must be:

* 6x6 only - size is issue, 6x9 is too large for me
* rangefinder focusing.
* good quality optics with reasonably fast lens.
* less 'popular' so I can get myself a bargain.

I'm watching a couple of 1940s Mamiya 6 -which look great, but I have a feeling they will go too high for my very tight budget (less than £50).

Any recomendations from the FWs? Let's get a good comprehensive list going.

Andrea. · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2010, 10:11:58 AM »

Voigtlander Perkeo III

Paul Mitchell · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:11:41 AM »

One of the Agfa Isolettes

http://www.ph.utexas.edu/~yue/misc/AnscAgfa.html#SuprIso

Urban Hafner · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:50:40 AM »

In my search for a 6x6 folder I also came across the Super Baldax (http://www.certo6.com/cameras/balda-super-baldax-baldalux-baldafix ) which isn't as expensive as other cameras (like the Super Ikontas) and apparently is quite well built.

Urban

Francois · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2010, 02:44:34 PM »

I did go to a French collector's site. The guy has over 6000 cameras and they are all cataloged on his website with a powerful search engine.

I did a search for 6x6 folders with a fixed lens that take 120 film. Checking the page results might be interesting.

Collection Appareils

LT · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2010, 03:08:30 PM »

In my usual head-long rush kind of a way, I've just got one of these on the auction site:

photo courtesy of Skagman on Flickr.

3 things attracted me:

* It was only £8

* It is british made (so it should fall apart within a few days of receiving it then

)

* It has a reasonably sharp lens with some interesting swirl-tastic bokeh when focused close at full aperture.

This is, of course, all relying on the fact that it is in working order.

I'll write up a review once I've used it a bit.

Keep them coming though. If we can get a good list, I'll transfer it to the articles or resources section.

Diane Peterson · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2010, 03:16:43 PM »

I have two of the agfa Isolettes from the Late 1950's ..both completely restored..one finished in red leather and one in green leather..they are so beautiful that I hate to take them out..always worried I will "break"one..they take wonderful images..they feel like wonderful little treasures in my hands...I got them both from a guy in the U.S. that restores them but his name escapes me right now..ah...found it! really nice stuff...http://www.certo6.com/

Paul Mitchell · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2010, 03:36:08 PM »

Quote from: Diane Peterson on November 14, 2010, 03:16:43 PM

I have two of the agfa Isolettes from the Late 1950's ..both completely restored..one finished in red leather and one in green leather..they are so beautiful that I hate to take them out..always worried I will "break"one..they take wonderful images..they feel like wonderful little treasures in my hands...I got them both from a guy in the U.S. that restores them but his name escapes me right now..ah...found it! really nice stuff...http://www.certo6.com/

Yes, Jurgen is the God of vintage folders and have never known him sell one that isn't A++

Photo_Utopia · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2010, 05:52:00 PM »

Looks great! can't wait to see your review. I have seen some Ensign 6x6 on the bay-I'm tempted...
Regards
Mark Antony

Miles · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2010, 06:04:51 PM »

Wow Leon that is very cool, and for £8 too.

I love my £10 Isolette II but the lack of RF I think is a real drawback.

edthened · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2010, 07:13:42 PM »

Och hoo aboota wee Hapo66e ( http://tinyurl.com/2w48dd5 ). Compact an awfie cheep (if ye can find wun), so ther

PS. Av got wun an it's nae bad, so ther, so ther

Diane Peterson · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2010, 07:23:43 PM »

I like this Ed. very nice indeed!

Skorj · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:31:57 PM »

The Perkeo looks neat!

This Makina (2.9) is cheap too:

A 500 yen Mihama:

Konica Pearl:

Have fun! Skj.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2010, 02:08:01 PM »

good idea for a thread, leon. and congrats on the find. hope it serves you well

I shall keep an eye on this thread, as I keep an eye on second hand shops where I'm at for something like this. Folders are easy to find, but folders with rangefinders? Alas, woe is to the failed seeker

Francois · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2010, 03:10:34 PM »

The hard thing I find with folders is that it seems all I can find are 6x9 models. I have a few of them yet only one shoots 6x6...

And those that shoot 120 without any serious mod are also quite rare around here... almost all I can find are Kodak models that shoot 620 (I hate re-spooling).

gregor · « **Reply #15 on:** November 15, 2010, 03:38:19 PM »

I have a lovely Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta (523/16). It's a zone focus model but it's not too hard to wrap one's head around after years of toy cam shooting... It does have a Tessar lens which is a bit unusual for this model. Most have the Nettar lens.

The Zeiss folders are a bit pricey on auction sites. I was lucky to get mine from an antique shop here, where I was able to talk the seller down to a little over 100 USD from 250 USD.

A friend takes absolutely gorgeous shots using a 532/16 (built in rangefinder instead of zone focusing on hers):

http://www.marialevitsky.com/

Mike (happyforest) · « **Reply #16 on:** November 15, 2010, 07:33:06 PM »

Leon

I have an Agifold, inherited from my father who got it from his cousin. Which I recently rediscovered.

The range finder is not coupled to the lens so distances have to be transferred to the lens. It also has an 'extinguished' (not sure if this is the correct term here,)light meter in it.

On my camera the focusing ring is extremely tight and if I push to hard on the lens when I am adjusting focus the lens tends to collapse back into the body. There doesn't appear to be any dent\damage that caused this but it is really frustrating as slows down the process of picture taking and has stopped me using it more.

The shutter release is linked to the wind on, so you have to wind on to be able to use the top plate release. However you still have to cock the shutter manually.

I put a film through this at the beginning of the year to test it. Subject matter is not spectacular and probably not the best to show the cameras capabilities but with a little care then I am sure it has great promise.

Mike

LT · « **Reply #17 on:** November 15, 2010, 07:58:09 PM »

thanks Mike - I was aware of the uncoupled RF, but do you find it difficult to use the RF then to set the lens (stiffness of the focus aside)? Your focusing problem may be due to thickening grease?

Mike (happyforest) · « **Reply #18 on:** November 15, 2010, 08:16:00 PM »

Leon

The RF is easy enough to use and transferring this to the lens would not be an issue apart from the stiffness. Does mean a loss of spontaneity.

The camera is in good condition mine has a leather case which almost looks like new. I did wonder if the lube had thicken up. The speed and aperture dials are smooth an easy to move if this could be the same with the focussing then this would be delight to use. At the moment I in danger of ripping the skin of my fingers trying to adjust it.

I may pluck up the courage to try and get this apart sometime and see if I can free it up\re-lubricate it.

Mike

Francois · « **Reply #19 on:** November 15, 2010, 11:19:33 PM »

On those cameras, removing the lens is usually quite simple since they most likely are held with visible screws. Just using a Q-tip to remove the old grease, a good clean with lighter fluid if there is grime and overall crap on the threads and re-lubing with moly grease should bring it back into order.

As for the extinction meter... the only place I've ever seen them is in books!
They went out of favor simply because people don't all have the same eye sensitivity... this made them as unreliable as can be.

LT · « **Reply #20 on:** November 17, 2010, 01:48:24 PM »

gah - the camera is a dud - shutter not working properly. I think I can sort it out though.

Francois · « **Reply #21 on:** November 17, 2010, 02:33:17 PM »

Your camera is the Agifold III
http://www.collection-appareils.fr/agilux/html/agilux_agifold.php

I don't know if there are any exploded views of it anywhere though...

Photo_Utopia · « **Reply #22 on:** November 17, 2010, 02:58:38 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on November 17, 2010, 01:48:24 PM

gah - the camera is a dud - shutter not working properly. I think I can sort it out though.

Ah that's bad, you could try putting it in a warm place like an airing cuboard, I know this sounds strange but i was told this by a camera repair guy and it worked with an old Rolleicord.
Aside from that you'll have to dismantle and clean. Most of those old shutters are copies of German ones from before the war, you might find it is similar to a compur.
Should find out how to do that with google
here is one page:
http://www.skgrimes.com/repair/repshut/index.htm

Francois · « **Reply #23 on:** November 17, 2010, 10:08:12 PM »

When taking it apart, just make sure you make a digital snap of the insides for every single thing you remove. That makes it easier to put back together.

Also, make sure you work on a bath towel (I think it's called terry cloth???). The loops in the fabric will catch the little springs and screws I know you will drop (because I've already dropped so many... and spending hours under the desk with a flashlight is not a fun prospect... I know from experience)

Nigel · « **Reply #24 on:** November 18, 2010, 08:28:10 PM »

Quote

Also, make sure you work on a bath towel (I think it's called terry cloth???).

That's a really good tip Francois, I've also done the played the flashlight game and it's not fun. It's a bath towel for me next time!

Late Developer · « **Reply #25 on:** November 18, 2010, 09:22:10 PM »

Interesting thread.....I've been wondering about getting a folding RF for a while.

A local pro friend of mine (who runs a camera store / processing / framing shop and from whom I buy most of my kit) has a real beauty up for grabs at the moment. It's a Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 533/16 with a Tessar 80mm F2.8 lens. It's in near mint condition, everything works like it should (including the self timer) - even the meter works. The downside is he's asking £350 ($560 US) so it's way out of my league right now.

I'm also after a 6x6 format as I like "the square" - so I'm keeping an eye on what's posted here. I used to have a Nettar but the bellows were leaky and the front element of the lens rattled around something chronic. I binned it as I couldn't find anyone confident of being able to fix it.

Isn't this photography thing addictive......you'd have thought I'd have learned after the first 30 years or so, eh?

Francois · « **Reply #26 on:** November 18, 2010, 09:31:25 PM »

I'm pretty sure you could make a new set of bellows for that Nettar. They're not the easiest thing to fold but not the most complex either. It's probably more the redundant part that kills (this and the added swearing required by the first few folds

)

Here's a link on Instructables on how to make them out of Bristol board and hockey tape
http://www.instructables.com/id/bellows-for-large-format-camera/

DS · « **Reply #27 on:** November 19, 2010, 12:16:47 PM »

Quote from: Francois on November 17, 2010, 10:08:12 PM

When taking it apart, just make sure you make a digital snap of the insides for every single thing you remove. That makes it easier to put back together.

Also, make sure you work on a bath towel (I think it's called terry cloth???). The loops in the fabric will catch the little springs and screws I know you will drop (because I've already dropped so many... and spending hours under the desk with a flashlight is not a fun prospect... I know from experience)

I agree on the towel front and having the digi-cam set up to take pics of each part in-situ. It's a life-saver. Also, I use small ziploc baggies to contain and label parts from each assemby and then hold the bags together in-sequence with a binder clip. egg-boxes are quite good for this too. This all makes camera repair remarkably simlilar to my day-job as an archaeologist...

As for folders- I'm intriuged by the soviet Iskra: http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Iskra. Coupled rangefinder, unit focusing and sell for about 1/2-1/3 what the super-isolettes they're copied from go for.
Also- there's the seagull 203-1: http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Seagull_203

Diane Peterson · « **Reply #28 on:** November 19, 2010, 11:22:23 PM »

DS...just had a look at your blog/website! Wow..some great photos and very interesting camera mods..thanks for sharing....wish I had known you were looking for a Pen...just sold one in perfect condition very cheap judging by what you mentioned..too bad I hadn't seen this earlier...

Miller · « **Reply #29 on:** November 21, 2010, 08:08:58 PM »

Firstly I must stop frequenting camera fairs... Was at Potters Bar today and picked up an Agifold for cashew nuts... It was a little sticky at about 1 sec but with a little switch cleaner in the gap where the cable release is located all is good...

I like it and will soon work out the very strange metering which can only be seen under strong light...

LT · « **Reply #30 on:** November 21, 2010, 09:21:40 PM »

you're just rubbing salt into my wounds Mr M.

Skorj · « **Reply #31 on:** November 21, 2010, 10:30:10 PM »

Quote from: Miller on November 21, 2010, 08:08:58 PM

I like it and will soon work out the very strange metering which can only be seen under strong light...

Does that mean it is hard to see, or only operates under strong light? The latter might suggest worn selenium cell... Skj.

Francois · « **Reply #32 on:** November 22, 2010, 03:43:19 PM »

Quote from: Skorj on November 21, 2010, 10:30:10 PM

Quote from: Miller on November 21, 2010, 08:08:58 PM
I like it and will soon work out the very strange metering which can only be seen under strong light...

Does that mean it is hard to see, or only operates under strong light? The latter might suggest worn selenium cell... Skj.

Actually, I don't think it's a selenium cell either!
If it's an extinction meter, it most likely uses a graduated filter and a scale. When you start seeing numbers on the scale, you're supposed to have a hint at what exposure to use. It actually uses an optical trick to put the scale into a progressive shadow. Your eye's sensitivity is what is supposed to make it work. But at the time, people didn't realize that as the pupil dilates, the exposure changes... not good.

Miller · « **Reply #33 on:** November 22, 2010, 05:16:27 PM »

Leon.... If not for your thread it'd still be on the sellers stall methinks... Anyway, the lil tyke was sticking this morning. Time for the airing cupboard... $:-\$

Yep, Francois has the ticket... Under good light I can see the numbers and depending on what shows up I'm guessing this must be associated with the scale on the top plate of the camera...

Anyway, I'll have some fun weekend and see if it calibrates or not...

Rgds

Mlr

Paul H · « **Reply #34 on:** December 10, 2010, 09:38:12 AM »

Hi

They're actually not too bad for the prices they go for. Reasonably well made, and easy to work on. The shutter cocking lever is in an odd place though.

The extinction meter is somewhat less accurate than a sunny-16 guess......

As you intimated in you description of the camera, the lens is interesting wide open - here's an example from mine:

img598

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #35 on:** December 11, 2010, 08:27:41 AM »

I don't think anyone in the UK ever made or even designed a decent camera shutter. Those I've seen have all been flaky. If only the Brits had learned how to copy and develop foreign (German) ideas in the same way that Japanese industry did.

Bang for buck you probably can't do better than the Agfa Isolette - any model. The lenses have good coatings, pc flash sync on the shutter, and the bellows are easy to replace. This last point is a curious one - many cameras (Zeiss, for example) mounted their bellows at an early stage in the assembly of the camera body meaning that it's impossible to do an authentic (and 100% secure) replacement. Fortunately Zeiss bellows are invariably still sound even after 60 or more years. This is also true of the early Jsolette and Isolette models but not the later ones. Isolettes I, II, and III have crappo bellows but they are held in place under a screw-in plate and therefore very get-at-able.