Topic: Great Old Portrait

[Ed Wenn]

I was talking to a friend at work who is interested in his family tree and has loads of old photos from back in the day. We were trawling through some of them when I came across this one of his wife's great grandfather (George Bryanton 1846-1937. Agricultural Labourer & Gamekeeper - Bramfield, Suffolk). I was immediately struck (as I'm sure are you) by the fact that it's an informal, outdoor, relatively unposed photo...one might almost say it's a snapshot . Which considering it was taken in the very early 1900's has got to be a bit of a rarity surely (I know, "Don't call me....")?

Anyway, I think it's a great photo. Thought I'd share it.

Ed

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[db]

cracker

And you know, for me it's all about the girl in the background. I wonder if the family got their prints made  and were disappointed to find  her peeking around from the background, but now it just says so much. There's him doing the familiar 'stand like this for the camera' -even in 1900 it must have already been a formula- but she is kinda excited about the whole camera thing and can't help shyly slide in to see what's going on.

The scenario reminds us all of the (causality?) effect that the camera invariably has. Hmm.. my philosophy terminology is deserting me tonight, but I'm talking about the fact that act of observing something in order to record the real or 'normal', itself creates an unnatural situation and you end up recording something that wouldn't normally happen in that way.

The reportage purists in this world would like to say that doesn't happen, but here we see it in it's plainest, most innocent form.

(If anyone can help me with the correct term for this effect I'd appreciate it!)

[david b]

It's called 'Observer Effect' in philosophy (or Epistemology) - I've also heard the term used in Physics.

A great photograph in any case - love his cardigan!

[db]

It's called 'Observer Effect' in philosophy (or Epistemology) - I've also heard the term used in Physics.

A great photograph in any case - love his cardigan!

Thanks David.
I'd only heard it described in Physics (which explains why I was so fuzzy on it ) but it's always seemed such a basic psychological/human thing to me.

[david b]

Yeah, I think psychologically it's a fairly universal trait - people behave differently when being observed, and doubly so when being photographed!  I was interviewed for TV earlier this year, and that was far worse actually, like I could feel a physical weight bearing down on me.

In philosophy and epistemology it's a bit more complex, getting into questions about whether human tools of perception are good enough for examining reality, or even if there is a reality seperate from our observation of it.  All grist for the mill of the thinking photographer!

[LT]

A great photograph in any case - love his cardigan!

and a splendid walrus moustache too

[TonyP]

I agree a great portrait and the girl does add interest. I'm intrigued by the pin through his collar. This is the kind of picture that probably got many of us hooked on photography. It's fascinating looking at pictures like this on the walls in old country pubs, wondering what their lives were like.

[db]

In philosophy and epistemology it's a bit more complex, getting into questions about whether human tools of perception are good enough for examining reality, or even if there is a reality seperate from our observation of it.  All grist for the mill of the thinking photographer!

To be sure- but the day we start discussing Shrödinger's Cat on this board will be the day good sensible non-geeks kick our asses outa here!

[Ed Wenn]

I'm pleased you picked up on the girl (Don, it's my fave part of the photo too and her reaction increases the informal aspect of the snap), the pin and the cardigan; three things that really drew me to it. Two other things I liked were the location (my family hails from that part of the country-ish and I spent my teenage years pretty close by) and the rounded, sunburnt features of George.

Much like Leon's family snaps from back in the day (go on, Druid, show them to us again....please) this isn't the protrait of a rich or even relatively comfortable man. The guy was pretty hard up....so why the camera and why him?

I like this the more I look at it.

[gary m]

I would definately grab this shot up if I came across it when looking for found photos. Brilliant shot!

http://www.flickr.com/groups/found-photos/

[LT]

(go on, Druid, show them to us again....please)

oh, ok then - if you insist ....

here's a few.  These were taken by my great grandfather - a general labourer working int eh Chatham navy dockyards about 1913 ish (I think).  THey were a very poor family living in the now demolished slum area of the town - so how could he afford a#to use a camera?  any way,
I printed these from half plate glass negs.

 

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[TonyP]

Those are wonderful Leon. Looks like they really took it seriously as well. A background blanket in every shot, except the first one where they went posh and used what looks like a table cloth