Author Topic: Touching up Prints, spotting (Read 4444 times)

tinm@n · « **on:** November 10, 2009, 12:01:28 AM »

Hi Folks,

I haven't done any exhibition stuff before but I am hoping to get some prints together to contribute to a small local one in 2 weeks. I know my negs have some marks/spots on them and was wondering what people use to get rid of these when they are printed, i.e. specific kits etc. UK-based and pretty urgent.

Have only come across a couple of things in the past online and I've lost track of them now. Thought I'd toss it into the ring here as it might be a useful topic. Can't see any previous thread having had a quick search.

Hoping to contribute more stuff here soon, been a tad busy. Loving lots of the weekend stuff I've seen :-)

Tim

wavebeat · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2009, 12:18:03 AM »

hello Tim... yeah, miss seeing your work on the weekend stuff. As to the re-touching thing, not my area at all; tho' I know that Silverprint sell all the stuff you'll need.http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=671

tinm@n · « **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2009, 12:36:12 AM »

Thanks very much wavebeat, looks like a decent choice. Can't work out which would be the best. Reckon I'll have to get something ordered pronto though.

LT · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2009, 07:39:13 AM »

I use the equivalent of the Diaphoto range and find the basic neutral/warm/cool kit covers most situations.

It is quite a skill to do it well though. I'd try some intense practising on old prints before you start on your exhibition ones. The key is an ultra fine brush, have the brush virtually dry before it touches the print and build up from light to dark to prevent going too far. I keep a wad of toilet tissue next to the print and once I've loaded the brush, I let most of it get absorbed by the tissue then use the brush on the print - it wastes most of the ink, but helps to prevent getting blobs of ink over spilling the edges of the spot.

If you are using gloss paper, once you have spotting the print, if any of the surface reflectance is affected, boil a kettle, and wave the print surface over the steam , it will come back to a gloss (and possibly even a greater gloss throughout) almost immediately. the only problem is the print will curl like mad, so it really need to be mounted to some board before you do this.

there you go - several hundred more words than you wanted.

L

tinm@n · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2009, 09:40:50 AM »

Leon, thank you so much for taking the time to type in that advice, it will be very useful. I've been into painting quite a bit so kind of understand some of the things you're saying there about the application. Should have some suitable brushes as well. I'll go for that set you mention - if it works for you then that's good enough a recommendation. Cheers again

snewbery · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2009, 08:54:03 PM »

What leon said. Also, use an adjustable lamp, with a head that swivels easily, keep a little distilled water at hand to moisten the brush when necessary. I use an old ice tray to mix colors, keep the various splotches separate. The splotches can be reused if you keep the tray free of dust. Also, use a good strong pair of magnifiers (glasses). Makes one's eyes feel a bit wonky, but absolutely indispensable. I use fingerless cotton gloves on one hand, and a full cotton glove on the other: I can handle ice tray and colors this way and yet keep print free of unwanted fingerprints.

I keep a reject print at close hand and usually daub that one first with the brush freshly loaded with pigment---it's the equivalent of Leon's tissue; but this way I can see and track the reduction of the ink with each daub, and so work it down to a level that I need for the spotting of the actual print.

As for brushes: I use a variety; one of them has only one hair---no kidding... Good luck! ---Sheila

tinm@n · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2009, 09:39:12 PM »

Thank you very much for your advice Sheila. Absolutely invaluable and all makes sense even though I haven't yet tried. Hoping to get some done this weekend. Cheers

tinm@n · « **Reply #7 on:** November 16, 2009, 01:52:19 PM »

Well I got that kit suggested and am in the process of practising this. It is far more difficult than I imagined. So hard to get just the right tone and then when I apply it, say to a white spot it seems to stain the bit around it dark but the speck still remains visible. I'm using the finest rigger watercolour brush I have. Clearly a technique that is going to take some time to get right and I have to get these in by Thurs eve, argh ! Good job it's only a local small thing of not much importance.

Also, this kit caters for cleaning up the usual light spots but how do folks deal with dark spots ?

LT · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:12:08 PM »

dark spots are much more troubling.

the best way to deal is prevention ... rap your tank well and avoid using acid stop baths when developing. I just use a plain water stop to avoid the nasty acid pinholes. But I guess this isn't very helpful to you right now!

So, there are 3 things you can do ... both of which have their drawbacks and need a bit of practising before you get proficient at them:

1. Spotting the neg before printing. As the pinhole is clear in the neg, you can spot the neg using your spotting inks to turn it into a white spot on the print, which can then be re-touched to the correct tones

2. Knifing the print. The black spots are actually slightly raised in the emulsion. With great care, these can be removed with a fine scalpel blade, leaving a white spot which can then be re-touched using the spotting inks. It is really hard to do this well invisibly.

3. Bleaching the print. Using something like farmers reducer, or iodine tincture, you can apply a small drop, onto a wet but squeegeed print, using a fine brush or cocktail stick and leave it to take the black spot back to white. - wash (+ fix+wash again if using iodine) then treat it like any other white spot on the print.

tinm@n · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:46:18 PM »

Thanks once again Leon, good to know these choices. I only use water to stop/rinse so that hasn't been a problem. Dark spots are very rare on my prints but one I want to show has one. Looks like it's going to have to be the scalpel solution for this one as time is short. Once again thanks for responding so quickly. I'd love to see you more experienced printmakers doing this stuff in action.

LT · « **Reply #10 on:** November 16, 2009, 02:55:24 PM »

I think that, often it's more about taking attention away from the retouched area, rather than a seamless cover-up. If I've been spotting an area that I dont think is going well, I'll walk away from it for a while, then return after about 10 minutes. If I dont find the spotted place immediately, then I dont do anything more to it as if it takes me a while to notice it, then it will be invisible to anyone else.

that said, I hate doing it and am not very good at it. I'm ok with fine highlights or really dark areas, but I'm terrible at matching mid-grey tones for some reason.

good luck with it.

salvo · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:37:28 PM »

re the touching topic, has anybody experience of using spotpen (e.g. the ones made by Tetenal)? Just a different tool or worse/better? I see them in website/catalogues but I never see any comments on them.

PS. Tim, apologies if this adds confusion and for hijacking this (not my intention)

Francois · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:39:04 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on November 16, 2009, 02:55:24 PM

that said, I hate doing it and am not very good at it. I'm ok with fine highlights or really dark areas, but I'm terrible at matching mid-grey tones for some reason.

Normal, the ink used is shiny when liquid (well... that's seems obvious). This is just like looking at a wet print vs. dry print... much different.

LT · « **Reply #13 on:** November 16, 2009, 03:56:17 PM »

francois - I'm not sure I'm catching your drift there ....

Salvo - I havent used the pens, but I've spoken to a few who have and they haven't liked them at all. I've always wondered how you thin them out - I rarely use the inks without watering them down to get the tonal match, not sure how you'd do that with the pens ...

Andrea. · « **Reply #14 on:** November 16, 2009, 04:38:38 PM »

This is going to sound stupid; how much spotting would one normally expect to have to do?

mikeg · « **Reply #15 on:** November 16, 2009, 05:02:56 PM »

Quote from: salvo on November 16, 2009, 03:37:28 PM

re the touching topic, has anybody experience of using spotpen (e.g. the ones made by Tetenal)?

I started out using them, but found them very difficult to control. They have a very fine tip, but often not fine enough. I was always putting too much ink on the print. I've switched to a very fine 000 brush and and an old set of Spotone inks. This gives me much greater control.

Mike

LT · « **Reply #16 on:** November 16, 2009, 05:35:24 PM »

Andrea - that all depends on how dusty your darkroom is.

I use a condensor enlarger because I love that extra edge of sharpness but I REALLY pay for it when it comes to dust marks etc. Even the smallest of marks on the condensor lenses leaves a fuzzy mark on the neg - that's 4 surfaces. Then there's the two sides of the neg, so that's 6 and finally, just to be a glutton for punishment, I have some AN glass above the neg to hold it as flat as possible - so now we're up to 8 surfaces to keep dust free. It's a impossible job - so I do the best I can then spot the rest.
I cant bear dust marks on my prints so I just have to do it.

Francois · « **Reply #17 on:** November 16, 2009, 10:14:08 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on November 16, 2009, 03:56:17 PM

francois - I'm not sure I'm catching your drift there ....

Simple... always had the same problem too. When you work (I have an architect's lamp on my desk), if you put the small mixing palette under the light, it looks glossy because the liquid ink reflects. On the other hand, the print is matte (no reflection). If the ink is mixed too dark, it's easy to "over do it"... but you don't know until it's absorbed in the paper...

On the other hand, very pale or total black is easy to gauge.

Hope the drift is a bit more clear than originally...

LT · « **Reply #18 on:** November 16, 2009, 10:54:23 PM »

not sure that's the problem Francois. I use glossy papers almost exclusively. plus, I gauge the ink tone when it is soaked into the white tissue, not from the white pallette that I use (actually a porcelain plate). I think it's more to do with the way the eye judges mid tones.

CamerAsian · « **Reply #19 on:** November 17, 2009, 08:13:02 AM »

Leon,

Excellent information. I particularly like the idea of using the steam from a kettle to regloss the spotted area. It would be a good idea if such invaluable information on FW could be categorized somewhere for future easy access.

snewbery · « **Reply #20 on:** November 18, 2009, 10:21:27 PM »

Andrea, I'm with mikeg---the pens are a pain. Too big, too little control---too damp & oozy.

tinm@n · « **Reply #21 on:** November 19, 2009, 05:04:54 PM »

All very useful info, thanks folks.

I have now put the word "spotting" in the thread so hopefully it should be easily found in searches.

Andrea. · « **Reply #22 on:** November 19, 2009, 07:19:15 PM »

Yep, thanks for all the info. i usually just mix up half a gallon of spotone at time for each print. Perhaps I'll go and use the other enlarger. Dust is endemic in my darkroom!

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