Topic: kiev 60 or pentacon six?

[aboot]

i am currently getting into medium format i find myself going back and forth between the kiev 60 and the pentacon six... reading facts for and against them both online and i'm finding it hard to make a solid choice.  i am doing it mainly because of their cheapness... but also because of the quality lenses they can use.  i am willing to tinker with them if they need fixing (i would actually enjoy that).  i'm just curious if anyone here has owned either of these and what they thought of them.  thanks in advance...

[outofcontxt]

I've had experience with the Pentacon 6. It's a nice medium format SLR. My only reservation is the unreliability of the film transport mechanism. It normally doesn't have a red window to check the frame counter and has a tendency to overlap frames. I bought several on eBay and had one customized a hole machine drilled through the rear door and the pressure plate. I piece of red film was then glued on to cover the window from the inside of the back. You can do it yourself. You'll need to remove the back door and waste a roll to measure exactly where the frame number shows. Mark the spot on both the back door and the pressure plate and then carefully drill a hole through the door and the pressure plate individually, being sure to remove any burrs. Or you can have a machine shop do it for you. It sure saved me a lot of overlapped frames. Good luck!

[Francois]

There's a site that is often forgotten (except for hardcore camera fans...):
http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/
It is a goldmine of information on everything medium format... but what an ugly web site design.

There, you will certainly find all the pros and cons of the Kiev and Pentacon.
Do like I did, draw up a list of the pros and cons for each one, assign them a score for convenience/inconvenience and calculate the total. You will certainly find a clear winner.

Or do like I did and get a cheap YashicaMat They're well built, cheap, solid, have excellent optics... Just ask around the forum and you will be convinced.

[Andrea.]

I have a Kiev 60 and the lens' are just great. The camera is junk - although i still use it. Difficult to load film, film transport issues, shutter bounce, holes in shutter, lens diaphram not working. Other than that it's a great camera - since i was given it by a non-photog chum who wa working in Kazachistan

[Susan B.]

Hey Aaron,
Good to see you.

I had the same modified Pentacon 6 that Bill has.
Honestly, I hated that thing.
The advance stunk even with a modified window in the back.
Sure I could see when the film number aligned--but that didn't mean my advance would line up correctly since I'd have to use these tiny advance strokes to assure it lined right. Sometimes it did. Sometimes it didn't. Big pain in the arse.

Sorry--but my vote is for almost anything but a Pentacon 6.

Best of luck with whatever you get.

[aboot]

thanks every one for all of your comments...

i don't think i'm going to purchase either of those cameras (i've heard the same horror stories about the kiev 60 having problems with the overlapping of frames also).  thanks to agent orange for sending me to that site... loads of information there that i'm sure i'll be using in the future.  i believe now that i am going to make a choice between the bronica ETRs, rolliecord V, or the yashica mat 124.

thanks again... i do appreciate it!

[Francois]

Hi aboot!

Read the comments on the YashicaMat on the medfmt site.
You will need to take note of the lens name, Yashica produced the same model with 2 different lenses. If I remember, one is 3 elements, the other one 4. One of them is so-so, the other one is fantastic. At least as good as any Rolleiflex they say.
I have the good one. No meter in it (it's not the 125G). I got it about 10 years ago, paid 70$can... a great deal. Recently, I passed up a 124G (and still regret it) for 60$can... a steal.

[This-is-damion]

own a kiev,  great thing!   few minor issues  but if you enjoy tinkering  then its no real issue at all!

if you want no problems  buy from araxfoto.   

[FrankB]

Not sure if this fits the bill or whether you've already considered and discounted it, but... Have you thought of a Mamiya C330 interchangeable lens TLR (or one of its predecessors)?

Lenses (especially the black ones) are top notch, build quality is "hockey puck", handling is good on a tripod, otherwise okay, weight is erm... best thought of in geological terms(!), TLR so no DoF preview...

Not for everyone, but I love it ('cept for the weight halfway up a Munro...)

[Francois]

You're right FrankB

Mamiya's C330 (and even C220) are real sherman tanks. Their only weak point is the bellows (watch out for pinholes, they probably cost an arm and a leg to replace).

The C330 (if I remember) has parallax correction. They're whisper quiet. I have a cousin who, years ago, was using them for wedding photography. You couldn't even hear the click of the shutter with all the emotional parents in Church

One of the only drawbacks is that they're HUGE (much much bigger than a Yashicamat), thus giving them an odd balance point when handheld.

[FrankB]

Quick note on the C330 bellows - with prices so low on ebay these days you could probably cheaply acquire a second body in shabby condition (but with good bellows (ask!)) and cannibalise it for parts.

The C330 does have parallax correction (and Mamiya also do a 'paramender' so they can be used for macro work) and the balance point is a bit odd for hand-holding (I use a 'pod near enough all the time so it doesn't bother me). It's a big ol' tank and heavy with it. Now, if Mamiya would bring out a carbon-fibre one... ...but it ain't gonna happen! 

They were for a long time the staple diet of wedding photographers. It's also worth talking to Dave Miller on this forum about their use with IR film (with it being a TLR the deep red filter on the taking lens doesn't affect the image in the 'finder).

[aboot]

it's funny that you mention the C330... i was actually watching the C33 for awhile but i went with the bronica etrs instead.  hopefully i made a good decision.  i still really want some type of TLR though... so i'll keep everything that was talked about here in mind for the near future.   

i've read that if you drop a C33 (or any of those... C220, C330) on the sidewalk it'll put a crack in the sidewalk (that's my kind of camera).  i dropped my canon a-1 from about chest height and it did put a small dent on it but it still works fine... i'm sure if it was some kind of digital camera it would have been a different story (i guess if i wasn't a damn klutz none of this would really matter  ). 

thanks again for all the good info...

[Francois]

You're welcome.

[FrankB]

I've used a borrowed etrs and had good results from it. Its owner was very happy with it too, so I'm sure you've made a good choice.

All the best (and have fun!),

Frank