Topic: Choosing between similar images - part two

[Ailsa]

Sorry for splitting the subject over two threads, but I've been stymied by the five-picture limit...

Now we have a picture taken from the window of my sister's flat. She lives on a Peabody estate in south London. (Hmmm, scans are rather contrasty at this end - hopefully you get the idea though.)

Both pics are brought to life (to my mind anyway!  ) as  much by the pigeon in the bottom right corner as the kids playing in the background. Pic 1 I really like, as it's clean and, well, 'factual', if that makes sense. Pic 2 I love for the way several of the kids are hanging off the bar in the playground, but I'm not sure whether it's spoiled by the out-of-focus lavender plant in the foreground. Cropping wouldn't be much good, as you'd lose the '15' parking space, which - to my mind - is a crucial part of the picture. Whaddya reckon?

Finally, we have a grab shot from the sea front at Whitstable. For me, pic 1 is all about the man in the wheelchair's outstretched arm, but the pose of the couple on the sea wall is less interesting. By pic 2, the man's arm is no longer outstretched, but the couple on the left are more engaged, and the line of the chain-linked fence is more dynamic. With slightly heavy heart, it's pic 2 for me. Perhaps I should just Photoshop the man from pic 1 into the composition of pic 2! 



[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

[choppert]

Peabody - With you on that one.  The second one is a great image with the kids larking around but the foreground really ruins it.  Cracking photo though!

Whitstablle - With you on the PS work required!    That crane in the background is a bit distracting too.  Would a tighter crop help?

Chops

[db]

Whitstable
I know it's not fair to stick the knife into what is after all a quickly spotted, candid shot, but I'll make my suggestions anyway because for me grab shots are all about seeing the possibilities of a decisive moment and positioning yourself ahead of time in anticipation of something playing out. And there is always next time.

I'd love to have seen the image from a camera position over to the right- tucked in by the steel fence. Then we would have a scene without the boat mast and without the crane  absolutely dead centre of frame. Also our young couple are so overlapped that at first glance I read them as one person. A shooting position looking 45 degrees across the wharf makes more of the sea as background and separates them into two shapes.

Also the chain divider would become a barrier separating the joys of youth from the infirmities of age. Young, in love, living life on the edge. Older guy alone, cut off from those adventures and forced to stick to the road more traveled.

Poses- I don't mind that they are ignoring his gesture. That's youth for you and his cry is unheard... I think the shot needs the narrative of the outstretched arm..  Oh, and it needs an orange filter to pull in the sky a bit more..

But well done for spotting moments like this. To me these are the hardest shots to make work well. My own always seem so ''almost'' and ''if only'' which is very frustrating. We know why people like Winogrand shot so much film.

Oh, and the playground- love it, without the bush.

[MarkBurley]

I would go with number one by a long way - I find the out of focus bush very distracting. Both shots great though.

Second set I would crop in closer on the out-stretched arm image - love the way he is being ignored. Very strong for me that - a lovely piece of social interaction and history (or should that be non-interaction...).

Mark

[Pete_R]

Whitstable

The first one is more dynamic and I don't read it as the couple ignoring the old guy, I see it that he is indicating to something out of shot and they are looking at it. The couple tend to separate better with a larger image. I do think it needs cropping though. Like this maybe...



Playground

I missed the kids in the first one until I'd read the post. Second one definitely better in that respect, shame about the foliage.

[Andrea.]

Love the first image; reminds of someone important in the photog field. But for the life of me can't think who it might be. Anyway, the first image has a lovely feel to it. Not too sure of the second actually. Seems to have a feel of Crone ism with people :-)

[SuzanneR]

Love the second with the kids.  Again... not sure about the second set of pictures. Good to see your work.

[Stu]

It'd have to be the first of each, AKA 'no bush' and 'arm out.'

Just feel that the arm out has more of a narrative. Nice.

[Ed Wenn]

Sister?s Flat: 1st one does it for me. The echoing angles (number 15 and the corner of the flat roof above it) are more pronounced, there?s no plant in evidence and I actually prefer the kids not swinging on the pole.

Seafront: Hate to agree slavishly with Don again, but my immediate reaction these shots after reading your comment was, "Quick, step to the right, crouch down and take a few more". Neither is super strong taken from your vantage point, but as with the country fair photo in the other thread they both point very strongly at the possibilities that existed for the scene and the fact that you spotted the moment is good news. Like Don said, there's always the next time. Also I'm a bit of a railings freak and so would - I hope - instinctively position myself at around 30 degrees to the right of the railings before I took a photo.

But hey, I'm starting to feel weird proclaiming from on high about the work of such an accomplished photographer as yourself, so I'll get my coat. Congrats on getting all of the films processed and good luck sorting out the winners and going back over all of the moments you captured.

[Ailsa]

Thanks everybody - a lot of interesting views, and I really appreciate you taking the time to look at the pics and write down your thoughts. At first I was a little despondent, as I was seeing the collective response as a resounding 'could do better'  -  but, having read back through the comments again, I see there's an awful lot of constructive advice there. Don, in particular, you make some really interesting points, and I love your crop of the Faversham picture.

I should probably add that I'm rather terrified of taking pictures of people, and would like to push myself to do a lot more of it in order to overcome that fear, so pics like the Whitstable shot are very much a starting point for me. It's interesting that a couple of you mentioned giving that picture a bit more time, and moving to a different position. I don't need to remember actually taking the shot to know that I would have fired off the two frames in a state of high anxiety, and then run away, screaming inwardly. The fact that I even managed two frames, rather than just one, is a massive breakthrough!  But that's excellent advice, and I'll definitely try next time I'm in such a situation to take a deep breath, slow down, and see what unfolds. And then run away, screaming inwardly...

[SuzanneR]

I realized that I wasn't very helpful in my criticism. The picture of the couple by the water and the man in the wheelchair is to my eyes, a little far away. I'm not drawn to any particular place to focus, and thought the one with his arm gesturing (the last) comes closest... I think you need to be closer to make that picture work better.

The picture with the kids is so nicely seen and organized, and has just the right spontaneity and light.

I hope that's a bit more helpful... I was writing earlier before my coffee kicked in!! 

[Ed Wenn]

I should probably add that I'm rather terrified of taking pictures of people, and would like to push myself to do a lot more of it in order to overcome that fear, so pics like the Whitstable shot are very much a starting point for me. It's interesting that a couple of you mentioned giving that picture a bit more time, and moving to a different position. I don't need to remember actually taking the shot to know that I would have fired off the two frames in a state of high anxiety, and then run away, screaming inwardly. The fact that I even managed two frames, rather than just one, is a massive breakthrough!  But that's excellent advice, and I'll definitely try next time I'm in such a situation to take a deep breath, slow down, and see what unfolds. And then run away, screaming inwardly...

Hey, I talk a good game, but I do find that my bravery in these situations is in direct proportion to how close I am to the subject(s) and how load my shutter release is. With a super loud MF SLR like a Kiev 60, a Bronny or a Great Wall I tend to be less brave than I am when wielding a nice, quiet RF (or a toycam)...so at least you have the right camera for the job.

I rarely rush it though. I always wait for the right moment and will often walk away and not take any photo if a person who I was trying to snap unobserved turns towards me. I lose shots that way for sure though. It's the opposite end of the same problem that you describe above. We both need to take some bravery pills.

Anyone out there shoot whilst drunk to boost confidence?