Author Topic: The need for NEW 120 Cameras  (Read 8483 times)

tlmester

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The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« on: January 19, 2009, 11:04:42 AM »
Does anyone know any of the important executives at Canon or Nikon?  There is a need for a limited production of NEW 120 Film Cameras to be manufactured.  The camera companies are probably unsure about what demand there would be, and are therefore reluctant to produce them.  I have thought of a simple way around this problem.  Either Canon or Nikon can take "requests" for Orders for one of their past 120 Models.  (They can do this via their Website.)  Once the number of those requests reaches the minimum number of Camera Orders they need to profitably run off the production, they can then solicit "down payments" (perhaps 50% of the price) on the Orders.  They would then produce the Cameras, and charge the remaining payment once the Cameras are produced.  This process guarantees profitability for Canon and Nikon.  Does anyone know who I would propose this to?
Sincerely,
Mr. Terry Mester
Welland, Ontario, Canada
Film and Digital Info Website - www.geocities.com/filmanddigitalinfo

sausage100uk

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 11:08:38 AM »
isn't fuji releasing a new 120 folder this year? in europe it will be a wearing a voigtlander badge.
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Skorj

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 11:50:59 AM »
Google Fuji GF670, or search here for same! Skj.

LT

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 12:00:48 PM »
you can ask as much as you want - just email from their websites.  I dont think you;ll have any success though.  the major companies stopped worrying about analogue cameras ages ago.  As far as I am aware, Canon and Nikon never made any mf cameras anyway - Nikon certainly didnt.
L.

Ailsa

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 12:08:44 PM »
As far as I am aware, Canon and Nikon never made any mf cameras anyway - Nikon certainly didnt.

I was just thinking the same thing. You'd be better off contacting Mamiya.

LT

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 12:23:12 PM »
sorry - I didnt notice this was your first post ...  welcome to filmwasters :)
L.

david b

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 12:27:00 PM »
There is a need for a limited production of NEW 120 Film Cameras to be manufactured.

Why?  And, as has been said, Nikon and Canon were never in the MF business, and are very unlikely to jump in now when the format has been abandoned by almost all professionals.

Nigel

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 01:33:03 PM »
I hadn't seen the Voigtlander before, I like that a lot!  :)

http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_fdih7jzkae.html

Does anyone know how much it's expected to cost?
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gothamtomato

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 02:13:20 PM »
Doesn't Mamiya still make the 7 rangefinder? That a 6x7 format, and I'd buy one in a flash if I could afford one.

beck

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 02:56:31 PM »
Retired Renegade Plastic Film Liberator Super Heroine

Francois

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 03:55:29 PM »
Nikon and Canon never made any 120 cameras. Professionals have stopped using 120 largely because the cost of using the cameras isn't justifiable in today's economy (a.k.a. the client is cheap).
There are still a few companies that produce 120 cameras. Out of the top of my mind comes Pentax (Pentax 67 and Pentax 645), Mamiya (645, RZ67, Mamiya 7), Hasselblad (V system, H1), Fuji (up and coming folder), the Kiev derivatives (arax and hartblei come to mind), Rollei (Rolleiflex, System 6000, System 6008, Hy6)... I could be forgetting a few.
Francois

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Nigel

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009, 08:27:20 PM »
I've just seen a Voitlander Bessa II on ebay  and it's very nice  :o I think I need to log off now in case I do something I shouldn't.  :(

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Voigtlander-Bessa-II-6x9-Folder-Color-Heliar-105-3-5_W0QQitemZ260349189325QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item260349189325&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1301%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1308

I didn't know they existed before I read this post.

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tlmester

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2009, 06:26:47 AM »
... the format has been abandoned by almost all professionals.
David, the 120 format has not been abandoned by ALL professionals.  My local national award-winning Photographer Thies Bogner has always used 120 (6x7), but he is now worried about finding Film Cameras and equipment.  Pros who used 135 went Digital, but I'd like to know how many pros who used 120 would claim that Digital is better?  Maybe those with bad eyesight.

There are still a few companies that produce 120 cameras. Out of the top of my mind comes Pentax (Pentax 67 and Pentax 645), Mamiya (645, RZ67, Mamiya 7), Hasselblad (V system, H1), Fuji (up and coming folder), the Kiev derivatives (arax and hartblei come to mind), Rollei (Rolleiflex, System 6000, System 6008, Hy6)... I could be forgetting a few.
Thanks very much Francois for all these Links.  I'm delighted to see all these new Film Cameras still available.  :)  Someone gave me incorrect information that you couldn't get 120.  I'm glad that's wrong.  Here are full Links:

http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_fdih7jzkae.html
http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4dxm.html
http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_asan6m4dxp.html

http://www.pentax.ca/film/index.php
http://www.pentax.ca/film/mf/index.php
http://www.pentax.ca/film/mf/645NII/index.php
http://www.pentax.ca/film/mf/67II/index.php

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/film_camera/clear_shot/index.html
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/film_camera/zoom_date/index.html
http://www.fujifilm.com/products/film_camera/clear_shot/clear_shot_s/index.html

http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/v-system/film-magazines.aspx
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/h-system/h2f.aspx
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/h-system/film-magazines.aspx
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products.aspx

http://www.payworxx.de/minox/product_info.php?info=p339_MINOX-DCC-Rolleiflex-AF-5-0--rot-.html&language=en
http://www.minox.com/index.php?id=1996&L=1

http://www.mamiya.com/645afd-iii.html
http://www.mamiya.com/645afd-ii.html

http://www.franke-heidecke.net/
 
Sincerely,
Mr. Terry Mester
Welland, Ontario, Canada
Film and Digital Info Website - www.geocities.com/filmanddigitalinfo

LT

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2009, 08:16:12 AM »
Hi terry

There are LOADS of pros who have foregone their medium format film equipment for digital. And those that stick with their camera bodies are often using the larger sensor sizes offered by the supplementary medium format digi backs.  That's why a decent mf set costs so little these days ... The Market is saturated with the things being sold by long time professional photographers. I can't remember the last time I saw a mall-type portrait photographer who didn't use a high end digi-slr or the same for wedding photogs.  And their reasons for change are most likely to be about ease of use, speed of access for clients, greater and easier control over image editing than they are about the niggly quality issues (resolution etc).

That said, filmwasters isn't the place for digi bashing. We're about a positive celebration of the creaitve use of film in photography, not an endless trawl of threads discussing which is better. 
L.

gothamtomato

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2009, 01:45:17 PM »
... the format has been abandoned by almost all professionals.
David, the 120 format has not been abandoned by ALL professionals. 



I agree. I'm a professional and I still shoot film only (including medium format).

I've also had conversations recently with shops that cater to pros and have been told that there are an increasing number of pros, who had sold off all their film equipment, coming back in to buy back medium format film equipment, both for personal use, and also because some clients are asking for film (and the film 'look') again.


Ed Wenn

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2009, 01:50:19 PM »
Interesting perspective.

I bought one of my Bronicas from an intern working at The Guardian newspaper in London 2 years ago and she was telling me that almost all of their regular photographers (staff or freelance) preferred to shoot using MF film at that time, but that the paper had recently changed its back office workflow in order to handle digital more easily and was - as a result - trying to 'encourage' their photographers to make the switch as well; to the extent that they were about to buy some digi MF Hassys and insist that staff used them for Guardian work. Now, this may be slightly inaccurate details-wise, but it's still a useful look behind the scenes of why photographers end up using the equipment that they do.

Francois

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2009, 03:32:35 PM »
I think there's never been a better time to get the medium format gear you always dreamed about. Companies have to drop the prices so that people can still have some money left to buy the digital back that goes with the camera ;)
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

david b

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2009, 04:25:08 PM »
... the format has been abandoned by almost all professionals.
David, the 120 format has not been abandoned by ALL professionals. 



I agree. I'm a professional and I still shoot film only (including medium format).

I did say "almost all", and I think that's fairly accurate.  I do commercial work, and use film wherever possible, but that's a choice often viewed with bewilderment by clients and other photogs.  The days of the majority - or even sizable minority - of fashion, editorial and wedding photographers shooting thousands of rolls of 120 a year have gone.

Francois

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2009, 09:44:55 PM »
One thing I must applaud is the manufacturers like Rollei that still make film backs for their newest cameras. If they did go completely digital, they could do without the entire shutter assembly but decided that part would stay.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

tlmester

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2009, 06:19:50 AM »
...  I do commercial work, and use film wherever possible, but that's a choice often viewed with bewilderment by clients and other photogs.  The days of the majority - or even sizable minority - of fashion, editorial and wedding photographers shooting thousands of rolls of 120 a year have gone.

This is a good observation David.  My leading local Photographer I mentioned above told me a few years ago about how he was feeling the pressure to go Digital.  I asked Thies if this pressure was coming from "commercial" clients.  He said it was not, but it was coming from other photographers!  I advised him to ignore their advice because they simply wanted to see him lower his quality standards to their own.  Thies is a super Photographer who has mastered the "art" of Film.  While not all Photographers will appreciate the art of Film Photography, and taking thousands of Pictures is very expensive with Film for those not skilled, I'm very glad that I was able to help convince Thies Bogner to stick with this art.


Here are more Links for the few Canon and Nikon 135 Cameras, and Minox models.  (I'm not sure why the Canon Canada Website shows more models than Canon USA.)
http://www.canon.ca/english/index-products.asp?lng=en&gid=2&sgid=8
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=111

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/filmcamera/index.htm

http://www.payworxx.de/minox/index.php?cat=c71_Analog-Cameras.html&XTCsid=1ddd2cdcffef4275146ef6c564cb943f
http://www.payworxx.de/minox/index.php?cat=c10_35mm-Accessories.html
http://www.payworxx.de/minox/index.php?cat=c9_8x11-mm-Cameras.html
http://www.payworxx.de/minox/index.php?cat=c24_Accessories-8x11-cameras.html
http://www.payworxx.de/minox/index.php?cat=c34_Films.html
Sincerely,
Mr. Terry Mester
Welland, Ontario, Canada
Film and Digital Info Website - www.geocities.com/filmanddigitalinfo

synj00

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2009, 10:39:09 PM »
How about instead of these big companies making a new 120 camera that WILL cost several thousands of dollars what about a company that can make something MODULAR and build what you need out of it? Film magazines bodies / kits to build your own lenses and so on. Build it in pieces you know like the old analog modular synthesizers. W00t! What say you????

tlmester

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2009, 05:31:50 AM »
How about instead of these big companies making a new 120 camera that WILL cost several thousands of dollars what about a company that can make something MODULAR and build what you need out of it? Film magazines bodies / kits to build your own lenses and so on. Build it in pieces you know like the old analog modular synthesizers. W00t! What say you????

I agree that it would be desirable to have non-computerized 120 and 135 Film Cameras being manufactured.  Those old non-computerized Cameras not only cost a lot less, but they lasted for decades.  The computerized functions on modern Cameras may be convenient, but it costs a lot of money to design and manufacture these Computers and Chips.  It is also more expensive to replace a faulty Computer than to buy a brand new Camera.  (I once bought a new Pentax 35mm that refused to turn on because the Computer insisted the Battery was low -- which it wasn't.)  I would never again buy a Camera that doesn't have a manual power switch to force it on.  Since there are a few Models of new 120 Cameras being sold, I don't know if there would presently be enough demand for a new non-computerized Model.  There are many second-hand older Cameras available.  Here are a few Links:
http://www.apug.org/classifieds/index.php
http://photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=closing&category=Medium+Format+non-SLR
http://photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=closing&category=Medium+Format+SLR
http://photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=closing&category=Camera+Parts
http://photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=closing&category=Classic
http://photo.net/gc/domain-multi?sort_by=closing&category=Large+Format
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Here are a few more Links for NEW Cameras:
http://www.linhof.de/M679.html
http://www.linhof.de/technika.html
http://www.linhof.de/master_technika_3000.html
http://www.linhof.de/master_technika_classic.html

http://www.lg4mat.net/LFcamera.html

http://shop.lomography.com/shop/
Sincerely,
Mr. Terry Mester
Welland, Ontario, Canada
Film and Digital Info Website - www.geocities.com/filmanddigitalinfo

Heather

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2009, 06:29:24 AM »
oyvey, what's with all the links in this post? It's really not necessary, is it? Unless you're fishing for more linking and more traffic for these sites, of course.
Heather
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tlmester

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2009, 01:31:06 PM »
oyvey, what's with all the links in this post? It's really not necessary, is it? Unless you're fishing for more linking and more traffic for these sites, of course.

The purpose of this Thread is to help people find new Film Cameras.  I don't know what you're trying to imply, nor why you would take exception to this help being provided.
Sincerely,
Mr. Terry Mester
Welland, Ontario, Canada
Film and Digital Info Website - www.geocities.com/filmanddigitalinfo

LT

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2009, 01:44:28 PM »
Hi terry

It's very kind of you to cut and paste all the links you've provided - it must have taken some time to search and format your posts.  However, it really isn't necessary for you to do any more.  I think I'm not going too far by saying that the majority of us here are well versed in the art of seeking out used and new cameras on the 'net.  I think it would serve this thread best to say that there are plenty of options still available for those seeking new or used manual or automated film cameras. 
L.

tijeras

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2009, 02:41:39 PM »
Now, this may be slightly inaccurate details-wise, but it's still a useful look behind the scenes of why photographers end up using the equipment that they do.

The newspaper I freelance for hasn't had a wet darkroom for about 5 years now.  It does indeed reflect the reason some of us shoot digital.   Besides the deadlines, it's important to be able to just send images quickly to a remote office.

Must admit the office doesn't have the "smell" it used to though.......



synj00

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Re: The need for NEW 120 Cameras
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2009, 07:14:42 PM »
Digital has its place but can never give the same feeling as a big ole' metal film cam. If anyone wants to go into the modular business I can build wooden boxes and someone else can grind old coke bottles into lenses. We'd make a fortune  :D