Author Topic: Filmwasters Group on Facebook (Read 4341 times)

Ed Wenn · « **on:** January 16, 2009, 12:35:34 PM »

For those of you who have Facebook accounts, I just wanted to say that I've set up a Filmwasters Group. It'sopen to anyone so go join it and invite people who I've missed off if they'll be interested.

Am ambivalent about setting up the group because I don't want to do anything that will take people away from this forum, but so many Filmwasters seem to spend so much time on FB it makes sense to have a mechanism there to alert them about Filmwasters.com site content changes and collaboration events. It may also expose this site to a larger audience which might be a good thing (as long as it's not too large!).

Hopefully all the interesting talk will stay here...we'll see how it goes.

Heather · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2009, 04:55:57 PM »

With Facebook's photo policy of "you post, we own", I'll still come back here to post my images, even if i end up sending a few more little textual messages to people on facebook than i do here.

suckerpunch · « **Reply #2 on:** January 19, 2009, 12:06:46 AM »

Hey Heather,

That policy is not true. It may have been once, but it is not anymore. Facebook have officially refuted this here:

"Facebook does not assert any ownership over your User Content; rather, as between us and you, subject to the rights granted to us in these Terms, you retain full ownership of all of your User Content and any intellectual property rights or other proprietary rights associated with your User Content."

This is a direct quote lifted from http://www.facebook.com/terms.php

I would like to see more filmwasters stuff on FB, not necessarily the forum, but using it to organize events and the like... I spend much more time on FB, it's far more efficient

Heather · « **Reply #3 on:** January 19, 2009, 09:06:27 AM »

But I thought they could still use whatever you upload however they wish.

yeah they can, it still says this under user posted content

By posting User Content to any part of the Site, you automatically grant, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant, to the Company an irrevocable, perpetual, non-exclusive, transferable, fully paid, worldwide licence (with the right to sublicence) to use, copy, publicly perform, publicly display, reformat, translate, excerpt (in whole or in part) and distribute such User Content for any purpose, commercial, advertising, or otherwise, on or in connection with the Site or the promotion thereof, to prepare derivative works of, or incorporate into other works, such User Content, and to grant and authorise sublicences of the foregoing.

moominsean · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:53:22 AM »

i think most photo sites have clauses like that. flickr even. by using their services, they have the right to use your stuff to self-promote.

you can go into your options and at least turn off the 'use my photos in sidebar ads' option.

Heather · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2009, 11:41:40 AM »

Nope. Flickr has certain groups where that may be the policy but you do not have to add your photos to those pools/groups. There was a huge bitch about a few of flickr's contests (like teaming up with the lomographic society) where they would have the same policy as facebook, you posting your images in this group means we can use them as we like, where we like, forever and ever amen. They eventually changed it to "until this specific date" rather than the perpetual clause. Even the newish "allow getty images to contact you" option in flickr is merely that. Getty don't have the rights to your images but you can allow them to contact you and work out a deal on your own terms.

Facebook certainly hides that "appear in ads to your friends" thing...

flickr/yahoo terms and conditions regarding posted photos

"With respect to photos, graphics, audio or video you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services other than Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute, reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on the Yahoo! Services solely for the purpose for which such Content was submitted or made available. This license exists only for as long as you elect to continue to include such Content on the Yahoo! Services and will terminate at the time you remove or Yahoo! removes such Content from the Yahoo! Services."

That is a more proper wording if Facebook didn't want to use your photos to advertise itself. but it does. and it wants to do it for free without telling you. This is why I will continue using flickr and not posting anything i really care about as far as images being flung about for whatever purpose Facebook wants, on Facebook.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2009, 04:55:20 PM »

...this is all very interesting; not the legal part, but the part where you guys are having a discussion about what's important to you and what's not regarding this site, Flickr and FB. Please continue.

Having recently joined FB primarily so I could host the FW group there, now that I've taken a look around I have certain concerns re the future of this site given how easy it would be to do a lot of what we do here on FB instead. Personally, I'd hate for that to happen, but that's just because I'm a DIY kind of person (ethics-wise at least....don't expect me to put shelving up at home

), but if the FW regulars spend more and more time on FB, then it's going to get pretty unproductive and quiet here. Lots to weigh up.

Suckerpunch: my intention is absolutely to use the Filmwasters group on FB to make announcements, organise events etc. so I'm glad you think that will be useful, but the "it's far more efficient" comment has me worried because you're probably right. Filmwasters is half about photography and film and half about social interaction (hanging out with people online discussing stuff, making jokes, staring at Phil's naked body

, getting inspired by your peers, learning, teaching etc. etc.) and if people are already using FB to do some of that with most of the people here, why would they continue to come here when they can talk about film photography AND play Scrabble all night. Hmm. Tough one.

Nigel · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2009, 07:18:28 PM »

I joined Facebook basically to see what all the fuss was about and yes I've joined the Filmwasters group but even though I'm a newbie here I wouldn't see how FB would work as well as the forum for this sort of interaction.

Heather · « **Reply #8 on:** January 19, 2009, 10:32:14 PM »

To be totally honest, I'll stay here because I find groups on FB to be harder to follow too. Or keep track of... So don't worry too much, Ed. Plus I like admiring Phil's photograph and I'm actually more in awe of how awesome and beautiful the image is rather than OMG A BUTT!

Diane Peterson · « **Reply #9 on:** January 19, 2009, 11:56:57 PM »

I am in agreement with Heather...I joined up on FB but just to see what the hub bub was about..I find it extremely difficult to keep track of whats happening over there..and I particulairly enjoy FW because I think it is unique and sort of compartmentalized and not so big as to be out of control..the forum thingey really makes it easier to keep track of what is happening..and you people have great senses of humour...

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2009, 01:08:02 AM »

Good news. I'm encouraged by the last few comments (thanks!)...all we have to now is stop those people on FB from playing Scrabble and git on back over here.

moominsean · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2009, 05:42:06 AM »

yeah facebook is more a clusterfck of everything. it's fun to add stuff and communicate with other people, but this place, it's easier to focus on the photo thing.

Ailsa · « **Reply #12 on:** January 20, 2009, 09:57:50 AM »

Quote from: ed.wenn on January 20, 2009, 01:08:02 AM

all we have to now is stop those people on FB from playing Scrabble and git on back over here.

Some of us are capable of multi-tasking, and can do both!

LT · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2009, 11:32:55 AM »

I must admit to finding FB a bit like information overload these days. I pop over there occasionally but it's less often recently. When I do, I get sucked into tending other peoples green patches, or being hassled by people who I haven't seen for years - and for good reason. I don't really want them finding me again

.

Let's stick with this place.

CateM · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2009, 06:37:54 PM »

I regard myself as a facebook failure.

It would be a bit of a shame if this group went to facebook because I've only just found it really, but I only go there once every three months, to see if one or two people are still alive. Not that that's a reason for not doing it (sorry, double negatives)..

Pete_R · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2009, 05:15:05 PM »

It seems the Facebook use of photos issue is still going on.

This post made yesterday on Photo Attorney also points out that Facebook will hold YOU responsible for any costs or damages if anyone makes a claim against THEM for misuse of a picture.

Personally, I won't go near Facebook so if FW moves there, I won't be joining.

Francois · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2009, 07:43:42 PM »

Besides, anybody can register anyone on Facebook... even without their knowledge.

moominsean · « **Reply #17 on:** February 18, 2009, 08:22:36 PM »

facebook recently posted this:

1. You own your information. Facebook does not. This includes your photos and all other content.

2. Facebook doesn't claim rights to any of your photos or other content. We need a license in order to help you share information with your friends, but we don't claim to own your information.

3. We won't use the information you share on Facebook for anything you haven't asked us to. We realize our current terms are too broad here and they make it seem like we might share information in ways you don't want, but this isn't what we're doing.

4. We will not share your information with anyone if you deactivate your account. If you've already sent a friend a message, they'll still have that message. However, when you deactivate your account, all of your photos and other content are removed.

5. We apologize for the confusion around these issues. We never intended to claim ownership over people's content even though that's what it seems like to many people. This was a mistake and we apologize for the confusion.

i personally think it borders on paranoia to worry about shit like this. i doubt it is facebook's intent to get rich from the photos posted by users. i understand people wanting to maintain rights to personal property, but there are plenty of other easy ways to grab people's work from the internet and do with it as you please without that person probably ever finding out about it.
and it's certainly very common for anyplace you upload your photos to to claim the ability to use those items for self-promotion. same for submitting to magazines...

and i doubt a facebook group would ever be as popular as this forum! they aren't structured the same at all.

gothamtomato · « **Reply #18 on:** February 18, 2009, 10:01:47 PM »

Facebook has gotten a ton of bad, national publicity, in the last couple of days, over this terms change - including speculation from some commentators about court challenges.

I've never used Facebook because it always sounded like a teenage thing to me, and I've never understood the attraction. I guess I'm old school.

Skorj · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2009, 09:11:58 AM »

Quote from: gothamtomato on February 18, 2009, 10:01:47 PM

I've never used Facebook because it always sounded like a teenage thing to me, and I've never understood the attraction. I guess I'm old school.

I think there is a difference between 'old school' and 'prudence'... I decided against it:
o You cannot delete your account. Ever.
o You have to give them real details.
o They own everything you put there, forever.
o I already have too many damn spaces in the ether to manage.
o There is nothing worse than being poked by that bonehead from elementary school.

They have (supposedly) rescinded one of these in the last week (pity it wasn't the bonehead-pokers too), but I am sure it makes zero difference in the world of people that stole someone else's idea to make the place anyway.

Still - as others say - it does have some benefits, so those that can I am sure do. Not for me though. Signed, Negative Nancy.

LT · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2009, 10:21:33 AM »

talking of poking ... here is a Hilarious film about facebook that you may have seen (thanks to stu for the link)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrlSkU0TFLs

Skorj · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2009, 11:25:46 AM »

Quote from: leon taylor on February 19, 2009, 10:21:33 AM

talking of poking ... here is a Hilarious film about facebook that you may have seen (thanks to stu for the link)

Well. I larfed. Thanks for that!

gixerdude · « **Reply #22 on:** February 20, 2009, 02:50:07 AM »

Quote from: Heather on January 16, 2009, 04:55:57 PM

With Facebook's photo policy of "you post, we own"

Is that right? I didnt know that.