Author Topic: Harman Polaroid Survey (Read 7649 times)

seekingfocus · « **on:** June 10, 2008, 03:57:03 PM »

Got this in the inbox today... looks like there's finally a Polaroid survey that may make a bit of a difference. Strange, since I had throught that Harman/Ilford had already announced they had no intentions of producing polaroid films... seems it's still on their minds though.

-Jason

--------------------

Dear Polaroid user

My name is Judy Wong and I am the Marketing Manager for ILFORD PHOTO.

Thank you for contacting HARMAN/ILFORD PHOTO regarding the 'Save Polaroid' campaign.

ILFORD PHOTO is very interested in your views on Polaroid.

To that end I have compiled a short questionnaire (below) to try and gain a better understanding of what it is about Polaroid that users particularly love and I should be very grateful if you could spare the time to complete it.

Please rate your responses to statements 1 to 7a (I love Polaroid because.......) on a scale of 1-10 (where 1 is high and 10 is low) and complete questions 7(b) and 8, number 9 is optional. If answering number 9, please be as precise as possible.
Question
1. ... it allows the capture of spontaneous and instant images
2. ... I like the feel, smell and tactile nature of a Polaroid print
3. ... I prefer analogue to digital technology
4. ... I use it as a proofing tool
5. ... I like the size of the image it creates
6. ... it allows me to print real b&w silver halide images from the negatives
7.(a) ... I like the quality and look of a Polaroid image*

(b)* (Please describe what it is that appeals to you about the look of
Polaroid, eg its use as an artistic tool for expression)
8. What would you use to replace your current way of working when the
supply of Polaroid film eventually runs out?
9. Any other comments (please be brief and explicit)

Please reply to this email address (ie Jane.crossen@harmantechnology.com)

Many thanks for your time, it is much appreciated.

Regards

Judy Wong

LT · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2008, 04:07:57 PM »

pure speculation .... but I wonder if this is Harman/Ilford looking to see if there is a viable market for an alternative TO polaroid rather than continuing the production OF polaroid which is what I understood they said they could not do?

gothamtomato · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2008, 04:16:14 PM »

I got one as well & I'm hoping it means something. Maybe it was just too expensive to bring the Polaroid machinery and baggage over to the UK. I spoke with someone at Polaroid who said that people did come through touring the facility, but she said that there are 'miles of machinery' required to make Type 55 film, and she wondered if anything would come of it.

Maybe they want to develop their own Type 55. I don't care what they call it as long as it gets me that goegeous, creamy look. I love the funky edges too, but I could live without them if I could get that creamy look.

BTW, I currently have stocked up on Type 55 & have 23 boxes (that's 460 sheets), but I'm finding myself creatively blocked thinking that these are the last sheets I'll ever get. I don't want to waste a single one, and that is affecting my thought process. They all expire by January.

beck · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2008, 04:23:57 PM »

Nnnn. I've already looked the other way and gotten over it. After seeing my photo lab with a new $49.99 price tag on a twin pack of Spectra, I'm just going to pass on it all for now. It is breaking the bank and I would rather spend the money on 120 film and processing instead. Sigh...

After reading a pals blog stating Kodak is on the same path....things look...well.

Due to significantly declining sales volume, Kodak is preannouncing the discontinuance of READYLOAD Single-Sheet Packets for four films.

The items listed below will be discontinued by year-end 2008. However, inventories may run out before then, depending on demand.

Please note: This preannounced discontinuance applies to Readyload format only. Other cut sheet sizes, such as 4?5 and 8?10, are not affected.

READYLOAD Discontinuances:

KODAK PROFESSIONAL T-MAX 100 Film
KODAK PROFESSIONAL PORTRA 160VC Film
KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Film E100G
KODAK PROFESSIONAL EKTACHROME Film E100VS
KODAK PROFESSIONAL READYLOAD Packet Film Holder

Heather · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2008, 04:25:42 PM »

I seriously doubt this is real. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money(or means or space). Why is it Jane Crossen's email address but it is "signed" Judy Wong? It just doesn't sound like something they'd do. If it was officially on their website, I'd trust it but internet rumour emails seem suspicious.

(above is in respect to the original post, not the Kodak press statement which is true as far as I'm aware. Not that I'd ever use expensive Readyloads)

LT · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2008, 04:53:15 PM »

Heather - Judy Wong is Harman Technology's Marketing Manager. I suspect she put the questionnaire together. Jane Crossen works in the admin side so it makes sense for her to be collating the responses prior to analysis.

I see no reason for this to be false in anyway. Just a bit of Market Research.

Heather · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:30:08 PM »

If that is the case, I still don't see how it'll help the polaroid problem. People will say one thing but only have enough money to buy small amounts of product usually. I'd love to buy more polaroid but I just can't - I'd like to eat too. I don't think there will be enough support out there for Harman/Ilford to justify the cost of moving equipment over and running it.

al · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:32:00 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on June 10, 2008, 04:07:57 PM

pure speculation .... but I wonder if this is Harman/Ilford looking to see if there is a viable market for an alternative TO polaroid rather than continuing the production OF polaroid which is what I understood they said they could not do?

Sounds quite likely. With the first option (taking over production) crossed off the list Ilford would be daft not to at least invest in a little research into other ways of capitalising on Polaroid's departure. Even if the output from the survey just means they tweak their conventional film/chemistry range, it would still be a worthwhile exercise for them to further understand the market

LT · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2008, 05:35:20 PM »

Quote from: Heather on June 10, 2008, 05:30:08 PM

If that is the case, I still don't see how it'll help the polaroid problem.

It wont help with the loss of polaroid, but it might encourage Harman to come up with a viable alternative.

gothamtomato · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2008, 07:02:40 PM »

Heather- I think it is real. And it goes to a legitimate address at Ilford.

I know that yesterday, they were compiling their email address list from all the letters they've gotten over the last few months. Obviously this is what they were doing it for.

seekingfocus · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:03:34 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on June 10, 2008, 04:07:57 PM

pure speculation .... but I wonder if this is Harman/Ilford looking to see if there is a viable market for an alternative TO polaroid rather than continuing the production OF polaroid which is what I understood they said they could not do?

That's precisely what I am thinking... I think they alluded to it (albeit indirectly) in their original statement that they would not continue the production of Polaroid films... but, whatever they're called if we can get some similar products out of them that would be a success.

Quote from: gothamtomato on June 10, 2008, 04:16:14 PM

BTW, I currently have stocked up on Type 55 & have 23 boxes (that's 460 sheets), but I'm finding myself creatively blocked thinking that these are the last sheets I'll ever get. I don't want to waste a single one, and that is affecting my thought process. They all expire by January.

Man! I've been feeling the same thing! It's seriously bumming me out, but knowing that supplies are suddenly limited even with the fridge fully stocked I can't bare to snap a single photo. Now that's serious film wastage! I keep telling myself I will find a serious project so that the reserves can go to good use- but that's just the opposite of at least one reason I love the polaroid films in the first place- spontaneity... It's just such a bummer, got to get over it eventually. Don't know if I would ever be able to open that last box though when it comes.

-Jason

kuru · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2008, 08:33:13 PM »

Quote from: seekingfocus on June 10, 2008, 08:03:34 PM

Quote from: gothamtomato on June 10, 2008, 04:16:14 PM
BTW, I currently have stocked up on Type 55 & have 23 boxes (that's 460 sheets), but I'm finding myself creatively blocked thinking that these are the last sheets I'll ever get. I don't want to waste a single one, and that is affecting my thought process. They all expire by January.
Man! I've been feeling the same thing! It's seriously bumming me out, but knowing that supplies are suddenly limited even with the fridge fully stocked I can't bare to snap a single photo. Now that's serious film wastage! I keep telling myself I will find a serious project so that the reserves can go to good use- but that's just the opposite of at least one reason I love the polaroid films in the first place- spontaneity... It's just such a bummer, got to get over it eventually. Don't know if I would ever be able to open that last box though when it comes.

-Jason

I'm in the same state. I've got two boxes of 55, 59, 665, and 85 that I just don't want to open.

db · « **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2008, 12:38:07 AM »

Quote from: gothamtomato on June 10, 2008, 04:16:14 PM

BTW, I currently have stocked up on Type 55 & have 23 boxes (that's 460 sheets), but I'm finding myself creatively blocked thinking that these are the last sheets I'll ever get. I don't want to waste a single one, and that is affecting my thought process. They all expire by January.

I also know what you mean. But if you feel blocked now, wait till you are down to 4 (my remainders). Lots of us would like to be in your shoes. $:-\$

Maybe we need to contribute suggestions for the subject and style of your massive last Type 55 project?
I vote for the symbolic: Death or perhaps Extinction where you tour the world making portraits of endangered species..

Francois · « **Reply #13 on:** June 12, 2008, 03:41:35 PM »

I strangely have the feeling it would be cheaper for Harman to develop their own instant process film. Not that moving the production equipment from Polaroid to the UK would be more expensive... it's more likely that Petters Group wants to sell worn out equipment for twice the price of new (which is more like their business style).

Since Kodak, Fuji and Polaroid have each developed instant film at one point, it shouldn't be that hard for Ilford to do the same. Especially if we keep in mind that the patents must be close to expired by now...

Ilford have tremendous knowledge in the film manufacturing world. It would be easy for them to make a gel based monobath and some direct positive paper.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #14 on:** June 12, 2008, 04:10:18 PM »

Quote from: Francois on June 12, 2008, 03:41:35 PM

Ilford have tremendous knowledge in the film manufacturing world. It would be easy for them to make a gel based monobath and some direct positive paper.

...and when you put it like that, Francois, it suddenly seems likie there might be something in this after all.

gothamtomato · « **Reply #15 on:** June 12, 2008, 06:08:29 PM »

Quote from: Francois on June 12, 2008, 03:41:35 PM

I strangely have the feeling it would be cheaper for Harman to develop their own instant process film. Not that moving the production equipment from Polaroid to the UK would be more expensive... it's more likely that Petters Group wants to sell worn out equipment for twice the price of new (which is more like their business style).

Since Kodak, Fuji and Polaroid have each developed instant film at one point, it shouldn't be that hard for Ilford to do the same. Especially if we keep in mind that the patents must be close to expired by now...

Ilford have tremendous knowledge in the film manufacturing world. It would be easy for them to make a gel based monobath and some direct positive paper.

Hmmm...I hope you're right. That does make sense. Who knows, maybe they'll come up with something even better.

I told them that what I love about the film is the creaminess of the look it gets (very hard to describe, but I think the word creamy is pretty close) and the funky edges. And the instantness of it is a plus as well.

If they manage to bring this back, I swear I will name my first born child 'Ilford'.

LT · « **Reply #16 on:** June 12, 2008, 06:16:53 PM »

ilford pan f dev'd in a catechol type developer comes pretty close to the polaroid creaminess

gothamtomato · « **Reply #17 on:** June 12, 2008, 10:36:05 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on June 12, 2008, 06:16:53 PM

ilford pan f dev'd in a catechol type developer comes pretty close to the polaroid creaminess

What is a catechol type developer?

traskblueribbon · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2008, 06:54:03 AM »

over at save polaroid we have heard whisperings, on more than one occasion, to the effect that one of polaroids biggest problems were the supply of chemical bases for their developers, were rising in cost quite significantly and drying up faster then the instant film market...

This and other reasons would lead me to agree with Leon. Perhaps they are interested in developing an alternative.

I would like an instant negative even, positive shm'osative

LT · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2008, 01:18:05 PM »

Quote from: gothamtomato on June 12, 2008, 10:36:05 PM

What is a catechol type developer?

commercially available ones are Pyrocat HD, Exactol Lux, DiXactol, Precyscol amongst others, but you can mix your own - there are some formulae published around and about online

Francois · « **Reply #20 on:** June 13, 2008, 06:51:38 PM »

Last night I got thinking about creativity, film supply, rarity, film wastage and how to make instant B&W film...

Kuru, Gotham and Seeking: Normal to feel blocked creativity. It has to do with rarity and waste. When a product is very common, you can afford to waste because you know that there will be more available tomorrow. But if something is scarce, you will want to save it because it has become precious due to rarity. With experimentation comes wastage. But from experimentation comes creativity. They both don't mix well... But to help a bit, I have a bunch of type 55 sheets with completely dried out pods. They don't last forever.

As for making some, I got thinking about the old Multigrade 3 RC rapid paper with the built in developer for activation type processing. So if anybody wants a start, this might be an interesting place to look

it's easier than the old portable darkrooms

[Sorry, image deleted during forum software upgrade. Please re-upload if so inclined.]

seekingfocus · « **Reply #21 on:** July 21, 2008, 05:49:16 PM »

An update:

Dear Polaroid User

Many thanks for returning the questionnaire in which we canvassed views and opinions on the Polaroid situation. All the questionnaires were read and analysed and it was of great interest to us to be able to confirm the high regard in which the Polaroid brand is held and also how passionate users feel about its possible demise.

HARMAN has issued the following statement.

"HARMAN technology Limited, through its monochrome brand ILFORD PHOTO, and Polaroid Worldwide have been in discussions about the possibility of ILFORD taking on production of Polaroid?s black and white professional instant sheet film. Despite the best efforts of both parties involved they have determined that there is not a commercially viable way forward.

HARMAN?s Chairman, Howard Hopwood said: ?The processes involved in the manufacture and assembly of professional instant sheet film products are very demanding and it would require substantial investment to re-establish them at HARMAN technology?s site in Cheshire, England. When compared with current and projected sales for the products, it was clear that such an investment could not be justified?

Howard Hopwood continues: ?While we had hoped to work together on continuing the production of instant sheet film, it is cost prohibitive to meet the declining demand. As a company we are saddened that such an inspirational form of expression will disappear, but we will always remain staunchly committed to the long-term future of monochrome photography in all its facets and we will continue to do everything we can to support it.?

----------

So, I guess that's pretty final then. Sounds about what we had expected, and I'm betting if Harman/Ilford can't do it no one can.

-Jason

gothamtomato · « **Reply #22 on:** July 21, 2008, 06:03:20 PM »

I got the same thing. Interesting though that they refer it its 'possible demise'.

I thought the demise was definite.

Maybe if more people filled in the questionere it would have helped. I got the feeling they were trying to guage how much demand there was.

Oh well. I got a 4x5 camera just to shoot type 55. I'm not sure if I'll shoot anything else. I hate loading the film holders.

Francois · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2008, 10:14:08 PM »

There's always Lucky Film...