Topic: Color negative film vs color positive film

[Indofunk]

I always cross process positive film in C41. And I always process negative film in C41. I guess what I'm saying is that I always process color film in C41 😂

I've often noticed that positive film developed in C41 has a much darker base than negative film developed in C41. Is the same true if positive film is developed in E6? Or is this dark base an inherent quality of positive film? One reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if lightening the base of my positive film will improve or otherwise affect the scanning.

[Pete_R]

Think I got a bit lost there, but...

Positive film (aka transparency) is, you guessed it, transparent. So should have no significant base density.

[Francois]

Is the slide film expired?
That is a big question...

[Indofunk]

Think I got a bit lost there, but...

Positive film (aka transparency) is, you guessed it, transparent. So should have no significant base density.

That is true! When developed in E6. So I guess that itself may explain it ... positive/transparent = negative/opaque 😁 so when I develop it as negative, the transparent parts come out completely black! Makes sense (if that is indeed the explanation 😉)

Is the slide film expired?
That is a big question...

You know me 😁 always expired, sometimes desert fresh 😂

[Indofunk]

Here's an example. Top: Cinestill, bottom: Ektachrome EPP100, both developed simultaneously in C41.

[Francois]

That's probably fog.
Slides in E6 get the black border. In C41, since it's missing the reversal bath, you get clear borders.
You should see the color of the borders on the negatives I develop 😆
For me, as long as it scans OK, I just don't care. Now that's what I call having a professional attitude 🤣

[Indofunk]

You're right that it's probably fog. As surprising as it may seem (even to me), I actually have shot in-date reversal film and developed in C41 ... I should dig up those negatives and see what they look like.

[Francois]

I know I've shot some Lomo Xpro film before and the borders were clear. So it should pretty much be the same.

[Indofunk]

Ok, I went back and checked the roll of new Ektachrome that I xpro'd in C41 and yes, it has nice clear borders 😊 So all my other xpro's have been fogged/expired. Sorry to waste everyone's time! 😁

[Francois]

Bah, not a problem as it gives me something other than the important stuff to think about.

Now, if you want to get negatives with black borders, just process that color negative film in E6 chemistry!
Or do like I did once and process in paper developer, rince, open the tank and really fog the heck out of the film (keeping it under water really helps even-out the exposure), close the tank and proceed to developing. You'll get some pseudo slide film with plenty of wonky colors.

[Indofunk]

Or do like I did once and process in paper developer, rince, open the tank and really fog the heck out of the film (keeping it under water really helps even-out the exposure), close the tank and proceed to developing. You'll get some pseudo slide film with plenty of wonky colors.

This sounds amazing! Do you have any examples? And does the first dev have to be in paper developer or can it be in regular color developer? And finally, what do you mean by "proceed to developing" (ie, E6, C41, other)?

[Francois]

The first bath has to be a B&W developer. I used PQ Universal as it's really fast and contrasty.
Once the silver image is developed, it creates an exposure mask which blocks the light. When you expose the crap out of the film, you expose the other parts. You develop in C41 like normal. The silver image will bleach and the resulting image will be a weird positive that is really hard to scan with correct colors.
I have one roll somewhere, I just can't remember where I stuck the scans. I tried it on a pre-exposed roll of found film that was in a camera, so it's possible I threw it out.

[Indofunk]

Ok, I'm totally gonna do this, thanks!! 😁 Since I have tons of HC110, that's the B&W dev that I'll use, then fog, then develop C41 😊

[Indofunk]

I just realized that I have done this before ... I think I was calling it accelerated development or something. Mostly on reversal film or super expired film, but I found this one roll of Agfa XRG that I developed that way. Here are 2 examples, they all came out either yellow-green shifted or purple-magenta shifted.

[Francois]

OK!
I just found the scans.
The massive drops on it are because I took the film out of the water to re-expose it.
But here are the negatives anyways. Feel free to play with them to see what you can do with them

Accelerated development is similar in a way, but it skips the re-exposure part and uses slide film; so it's a whole different beast.

[Indofunk]

You're right! I did not re-expose/fog the film between B&W dev & CD. Sweeeet, now I have a new dev scheme to try!!! 😁

You scanned those as negatives, right? Or positives?

[Indofunk]

Also, I'm very glad that this thread went from just words about developing (blah blah blah) to actual photos 😁 Narrowly avoided a flower foul from @jharr 😂😂😂

[Francois]

I was expecting it to be coming anytime soon...