Topic: Unloading/reloading a bulk loader

[Indofunk]

Is it as easy as I'm thinking?

I have 2 bulk loaders, both full of film at differing degrees of use. My loaders don't have a way for me to tell how much is left, so for the moment let's assume half of it. I now have another bulk roll of film that I'd like to swap into one of the loaders. Is it as easy as opening the loader up in the dark, pulling out the film that's in there, putting it in some sort of light-tight container (more on that later), and then loading the new roll of film? I don't see why it would be any harder, but I just wanted to idiot-check myself 😁

For the light-tight storage solution, I can probably use the foil bag that the new roll comes in, right? Put it in there and tape it up really well? Luckily, the new roll of film in new in box/bag 😁 Now, *IF* I didn't have that built-in solution, what else would i have lying around the house that could work?

[Francois]

That's pretty much all there is to it.
The bulks pretty much all come in a metal box that contains a black plastic bag. That is enough provided that the bag is not perforated in some way.
If it is, then you definitely need to find another one. You could wrap it in aluminum foil (that is a lightproof material), but you have to be extra careful if you do that.
I would also tape the metal can around the seam with some electrical tape... better be safe than sorry.

If you have enough empty cassettes, it might be worth spooling as much as you can before proceeding (keeping some for the new film).

[Bryan]

The roll that is in the loader will probably be loosely wound since it's been bouncing around in there for a while.  Be careful you don't make a tangled up mess.  If it's on a core try to wind it tighter while it's still in the loader then put a rubber band on it.  Don't roll it super tight, that can scratch the film from rubbing up against itself. 

[Indofunk]

Excellent advice, guys, thanks. Especially the warning about not making a huge mess, that is exactly the type of thing I am prone to do 😂

[Francois]

At least I'm sure you wouldn't do like some guy I got a bulk loader from at a garage sale.
In his box of random photo stuff, there was a brand new 50 foot spool of what looked like Ektachrome... in a torn bag exposed to the full summer sun...
I was so sad to see this as I would have had a ball with the stuff.

Too bad shipping is now so horribly expensive as I could have sent you one of my spares.

[astrobeck]

You probably already know this, but just in case...
Make sure you keep the internal core that sits on the little spindle in the bulk loader with the loader.
Bulk rolls right out of the new box don't usually have that core.

The empty roll on the left is usually what a new roll of bulk film comes on.
The empty on the right is the roll with the needed core that slips over the spindle inside the  bulk loader.

the finicky part to me is getting the beginning of the film fed through the opening just right so when you twist the loader to make it light tight, it catches just right.

[Francois]

Geez... they're even skimping on the spindles now...
Feels like the 45rpm story all over again!

[Indofunk]

You probably already know this, but just in case...
Make sure you keep the internal core that sits on the little spindle in the bulk loader with the loader.
Bulk rolls right out of the new box don't usually have that core.

The empty roll on the left is usually what a new roll of bulk film comes on.
The empty on the right is the roll with the needed core that slips over the spindle inside the  bulk loader.

the finicky part to me is getting the beginning of the film fed through the opening just right so when you twist the loader to make it light tight, it catches just right.

You know what they say about assuming, don't you? 🤣 As it turns out, I probably would not have thought of this, and then I'd be wondering why the new roll doesn't fit onto the spindle 😁 So that core just slips off like a 45RPM adapter? (And Francois, you are definitely older than me with that comment of yours!! 🤣🤣🤣 I don't ever remember 45's fitting directly onto a turntable without an adapter!! 😂😂😂)

[Bryan]

I have some of the 45rpm record adapters if you need one. 

[astrobeck]

here's the core all by its lonesome....
I think some are a little different for different loaders, so check that too.
But yeah, basically you need this piece.

[Francois]

(And Francois, you are definitely older than me with that comment of yours!! 🤣🤣🤣 I don't ever remember 45's fitting directly onto a turntable without an adapter!! 😂😂😂)

I actually thought the same until the 90's when I used to go shop in the HMV import section.
There, I saw that the 45's didn't require a spindle, so I was quite puzzled by the whole thing.
It turns out that the singles in America used to be like the LP's, but at some point record executives had the idea of punching the holes bigger and selling little adapters for 0.25$ each in order to significantly increasing profits on those records...
But in Europe, they never did that.
It also was a time that I could differentiate German made CD's from US made ones... they were slightly different.
Also, CD singles required an external adapter on some CD players...

[Bryan]

(And Francois, you are definitely older than me with that comment of yours!! 🤣🤣🤣 I don't ever remember 45's fitting directly onto a turntable without an adapter!! 😂😂😂)

I actually thought the same until the 90's when I used to go shop in the HMV import section.
There, I saw that the 45's didn't require a spindle, so I was quite puzzled by the whole thing.
It turns out that the singles in America used to be like the LP's, but at some point record executives had the idea of punching the holes bigger and selling little adapters for 0.25$ each in order to significantly increasing profits on those records...
But in Europe, they never did that.
It also was a time that I could differentiate German made CD's from US made ones... they were slightly different.
Also, CD singles required an external adapter on some CD players...

RCA invented the 45 in 1949, there were competing formats for singles that didn't take off.  The larger hole was for stability and hole ware.  This was important for the juke box industry at the time.  They did sell 45's with the smaller hole, some had a break out to use it with the larger hole.  There are also 7" 33rpm records with the small hole, I have a few of those.  The first RCA record players that were designed specifically for this format only took the larger hole.  I have an RCA 45-EY-2 that I recently did a partial restoration on that is one of their very early 45 record changers.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpQz1DiOEgA

[astrobeck]

that is so interesting.
I remember the first 45 I ever bought with allowance money was Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots are Made for Walking".
It drove my mom crazy to hear it over and over.

Back to the center piece for records and for the bulk film loader....I wonder if the diameter is the same for both?
That would be kind of cool, but I think the core of the film is smaller at one inch in diameter.

[Bryan]

that is so interesting.
I remember the first 45 I ever bought with allowance money was Nancy Sinatra's "These Boots are Made for Walking".
It drove my mom crazy to hear it over and over.

Back to the center piece for records and for the bulk film loader....I wonder if the diameter is the same for both?
That would be kind of cool, but I think the core of the film is smaller at one inch in diameter.

The 45 hole is 1.5 inches.  I have Nancy's Boot LP and a 45 (Like I do/To Know Him is to Love Him). 

[Francois]

Nancy Sinatra was too old for me... I did have the Bee Gees on 45... I think I even still have it!
But the first 45's I begged mom to get me were Our House by Madness and Electric Avenue by Eddie Grant. They were playing those at a local amusement park on one of the rides and I just had to get them. And I went back about 10 years later and they were still playing the same ones!

[astrobeck]

....and Nancy might say that you were "too young" for her. 

[Francois]

Definitely...
But I was such a lovable baby 😁
I'm sure she wouldn't have been able to resist my adorableness.

[jharr]

So the purpose of the core is what? It keeps the film tight in the loader? How does it do that? I'm certain I have at least one loader with a spool of film and no core. The film just sits in there and unwinds. I guess if I had to take it out I would just use a spare bag from some 8x10 film to store it in. Getting it back in the original can is more of a convenience. The rubber band is a good tip to avoid the hilarious "sproiiinnnggggg" unwinding of the entire spool.
I have also been known to load film in the dark without a daylight loader. I have a piece of string that is the length of a 24 exp roll. I use that to measure the film, cut the piece and spool it onto the inner core of a reusable canister. It's a little bit of a sweaty operation, but once you get a groove going, it's not too bad. I have more bulk rolls than I have loaders and just can't be bothered to switch them out every time I want to roll up some film.

Good luck with the unload/reload Satish.

[jharr]

Oh, and I do feel obligated to "flower foul" this discussion for blatant lack of film photos. This was taken on an altogether dreary day on Harman Phoenix. That film is really unforgiving of the slightest underexposure.


F2-Phoenix-042 by James Harr, on Flickr

[Francois]

Yay! The flower fouls are back 😁

[Bryan]

So the purpose of the core is what? It keeps the film tight in the loader? How does it do that? I'm certain I have at least one loader with a spool of film and no core. The film just sits in there and unwinds. I guess if I had to take it out I would just use a spare bag from some 8x10 film to store it in. Getting it back in the original can is more of a convenience. The rubber band is a good tip to avoid the hilarious "sproiiinnnggggg" unwinding of the entire spool.
I have also been known to load film in the dark without a daylight loader. I have a piece of string that is the length of a 24 exp roll. I use that to measure the film, cut the piece and spool it onto the inner core of a reusable canister. It's a little bit of a sweaty operation, but once you get a groove going, it's not too bad. I have more bulk rolls than I have loaders and just can't be bothered to switch them out every time I want to roll up some film.

Good luck with the unload/reload Satish.

The core is not really that important in a bulk loader.  I like the string method, may have to try that. 

[Francois]

Or you can just make a simple measuring jig for the darkroom using a piece of wood and some sort of spool holder.

[jharr]

Or you can just make a simple measuring jig for the darkroom using a piece of wood and some sort of spool holder.

You lost me at "jig". The piece of string is about as complicated a bit of machinery as I can make.  I did tie knots in the ends to make it easier to feel in the dark. Do I get points for difficulty?

[Francois]

I think you do.

My jig would consist of a piece of wood a bit longer than a roll of film with a binder clip screwed to one end. Pinch the film in the clip, find the edge of the board and cut there. That simple.