Author Topic: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format  (Read 16353 times)

moominsean

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2012, 05:59:15 PM »
Mine hasn't shipped out yet.
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gary m

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2012, 06:02:29 PM »
I was told early December shipping.

DonkeyDave

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2012, 06:45:29 PM »
I got mine yesterday, put some pics up on flickr, but with 40mph winds and torrential rain it's been hard to test.

First impressions are good, but using it along side my Rollei today made it feel pretty flimsy. 58mm lens looks holga like, 90mm lens much sharper, but itsn't sharp enough to be decent, and not soft enough to be 'special'. Very early days, but seems to work ok, leaf shutter pretty good actually, very light and smaller than I expected. Will be 'fun' and give a very analogue look, and will eat 120 film in 612 mode (which is actually more like 5x10).

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2012, 06:47:45 PM »
Where are you located Dave?

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risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #54 on: November 25, 2012, 04:44:35 PM »
I had a play with one in a Lomo shop today. The control setup is a bit eccentric - everything is on the lens, including the shutter release - but I think usable. They are ridiculously light, very easily purse/pocket portable, assuming a largish pocket.

Staff in the Lomo shops remind me of staff in Apple stores a few years ago - they work there because they really like the whole business. They take photos with the stuff they sell and enjoy doing so. Nice guys.
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DonkeyDave

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2012, 11:04:06 AM »
I'm in the UK

58mm lens at f8 is really really soft at the edges



Mickeyjumping by donkerdave, on Flickr
not had much time for useful testing, but will try and get out again soon, see if the 90mm lens holds up any better

Chris A Fraser

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2012, 05:15:09 PM »
i just got an email that mine has shipped!
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mcduff

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risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2012, 06:20:07 PM »
Chris (and whoever else had ordered one) I look forward to hearing about it and seeing some images from it on FW. This camera interests me.
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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2012, 09:09:37 PM »
i just got an email that mine has shipped!
Which model did you order?
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Chris A Fraser

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2012, 09:13:11 PM »
I went for the Globetrotter. oops Jetsetter.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2012, 09:15:21 PM by Chris A Fraser »
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moominsean

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #60 on: November 28, 2012, 07:49:56 PM »
I have to say I am a bit annoyed with the selling and shipping method they have going with this camera, because you know it is all just marketing BS. No way they are only making 150 of these cameras at a time and have to wait for the next batch to be produced to ship, like they let on. I'm sure they already have crates of the things, but letting them slowly drip out into the public builds anticipation and excitement for the camera. I ordered mine like the day they were listed, and no real indication of when it will ship, and who gets a camera when and why. I don't need my camera NOW, but I would like my camera, and I would like to skip the game they are playing with it.

It does seem like Europe and Asia get first dibs...only signs I've seen of one in America is at the Lomography store, and only one in the store.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2012, 07:51:55 PM by moominsean »
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DonkeyDave

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #61 on: November 28, 2012, 08:46:56 PM »
Hey chill - there's about 15 'out there' at the moment, unboxed preproduction models that Lomo sent out to volunteers - I think the rest should be available early Dec (next week) but if you are in the US - it is further away....

Anyway I thought they'd sold 1000?

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risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #62 on: November 28, 2012, 09:15:37 PM »
I will defend them by slightly insulting them ;)
I do not think they are that organized sometimes. As an example the pushed out a similar 'first run' of Orca 110 film and then they were dry for months. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

If they did that in a way to spike demand I would think it backfired. I had sort of stopped pining for it and had moved on. Granted I bought more of it but I did that despite the delay, it really did not fuel my desire for it.

I really do not think they were stockpiling Orca. I think it could be the case for this guy too. Or maybe I am just easily manipulated :)
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moominsean

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #63 on: November 28, 2012, 09:40:25 PM »
Like i said, i'm not super hungery for the camera (I have others) but they state they have shipped out the first 150 cameras. This isn't their first camera launch! They had plenty of Diana+ cameras at launch and shipped quickly and efficiently. I think they do run the business in an organized manner, actually. I'm just somewhat dubious about the distriution of this particular camera. It is what it is, but i get at least an email a day about the belair (along with a couple other lomography emails). Less talk, more selling!

I wasn't expecting mine anyway until mid/late december as stated in the original email, but I'm still curiously annoyed by the method.
"A world without Polaroid is a terrible place."
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astrobeck

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2012, 09:56:54 PM »
Reading all of this makes me all the more happier for not buying one.

I still think it's a cool camera, so hope everyone gets theirs soon and loves it.

 :)

Chris A Fraser

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2012, 11:58:23 PM »
Not to frustrate you more Sean, But I am in North America (West coast Canada) and mine should arrive tomorrow based on the tracking info. I ordered mine three days after the announcement. I ordered the Jetsetter, if I remember correct you ardered the all Black one.

It makes no sense to either.
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Francois

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2012, 03:06:56 PM »
Reading all of this makes me all the more happier for not buying one.

I still think it's a cool camera, so hope everyone gets theirs soon and loves it.

 :)
ditto
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JPC

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2012, 05:12:31 PM »
My city slicker just arrived by courier, a bit earlier than I was expecting. Which is great except "The Boss" says I'm not allowed to play with it until my birthday no matter how much I plead. Boohoo  :'(

DonkeyDave

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2012, 05:27:12 PM »
I managed to get an in focus/sharpish image at the weekend! Not really used to this Lomo thing...


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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2012, 10:54:22 PM »
That is a pretty good picture whether you are used to it or not.
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Chris A Fraser

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #70 on: December 10, 2012, 12:29:48 AM »
My first shot from the camera. I haven't picked up any batteries for it yet, so I shot without. The default is 124/sec. So I loaded some Ektar 100 and shot at f/16 on the 90mm lens
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moominsean

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #71 on: December 10, 2012, 03:58:39 AM »
my status says "waiting for shipment" which is better than "no stock" i guess.

i've been shooting more film and less polaroid here in chicago because the light is so bad, and it gets dark so early. my 669 and id-uv doesn't do all that well here in general.
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Francois

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #72 on: December 10, 2012, 03:10:47 PM »
Welcome back to the North!
When summer comes, you'll have light that's very different from winter. Days are longer but you get smog...

After shooting almost exclusively color for decades, I just recently came to the conclusion that the only way to shoot in the winter is to do it in B&W.
Francois

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Sandeha Lynch

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #73 on: December 10, 2012, 07:08:48 PM »
My first shot from the camera. I haven't picked up any batteries for it yet, so I shot without. The default is 124/sec. So I loaded some Ektar 100 and shot at f/16 on the 90mm lens

I like the look of that !!

ChristineHickey

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #74 on: December 10, 2012, 07:43:15 PM »
I like what I am seeing so far.  I was so on the fence about getting this camera, but I did bite the bullet and buy it.  Except that I bought it in the second wave - same low price (plus a few discount codes), but shipping in January.  Now I'm mad at myself because I have to wait so long.

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #75 on: December 10, 2012, 10:54:16 PM »
But on the other hand, waiting will make you enjoy it just that more :)
Francois

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astrobeck

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #76 on: December 12, 2012, 06:27:23 AM »
There's a hands on review of this camera at this link:
http://filmadvance.com/2012/12/review-lomography-belair-x-6-12-camera-part-1/#more-2055
and part 2 at:
http://filmadvance.com/2012/12/review-lomography-belair-x-6-12-camera-part-2/#more-2127

Gary is a fellow astronomer, knows his way around cameras and has reliable information.
His blog is great too!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 06:33:26 AM by astrobeck »

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #77 on: December 13, 2012, 12:55:28 PM »
There's a hands on review of this camera at this link:
http://filmadvance.com/2012/12/review-lomography-belair-x-6-12-camera-part-1/#more-2055
and part 2 at:
http://filmadvance.com/2012/12/review-lomography-belair-x-6-12-camera-part-2/#more-2127

Gary is a fellow astronomer, knows his way around cameras and has reliable information.
His blog is great too!

very throughout description of the camera! more info than could ever be found on lomography's own site :)
/jonas

Chalky

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #78 on: December 13, 2012, 01:13:52 PM »
sean if your 669 and ID-UV is no longer useful I'd be more than happy to buy it from you!  ;)

To be honest we have the same issue here in the UK, once the clocks change in late October, there is rarely enough light for most polaroid film until March time.

liking the shots I have seen with the belair so far.

Chris A Fraser

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #79 on: December 13, 2012, 06:13:33 PM »
The rumours of Russian glass are true, the pre-order just started. I will be holding off on that purchase.
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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2012, 06:46:30 PM »
The rumours of Russian glass are true, the pre-order just started. I will be holding off on that purchase.

Yes, I think I might be too... even with the pre-order discount they're still more than the camera was. Each.

I'm feeling a little dissatisfaction with the focussing on Flickr groups - some people are saying that theirs simply doesn't go to infinity, and other distances are also out. Well, mine arrives probably Saturday so I'll be able to give it a go.
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DonkeyDave

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #81 on: December 14, 2012, 11:05:34 AM »
just posted this on the flickr belair group


I've checked infinity and the marked focus points on the 58 and 90mm lenses.

Anyone who has used a view camera will know the technique as you use it to calibrate lenses.

I used the ground glass off a Rollei, taped it flat to the film rails. Using a dark cloth and a loupe focusing on a Church Spire a mile away (safe to assume is at infinity). On my example and I suspect many others you simply cannot focus on infinity.

infinity marked on the lens is 4.5m in reality - and obviously you can't turn it any further in to shorten the lens film distance and achieve infinity.

I also checked the other focusing points.

1m was 1m spot on, and the 90mm lens in the centre is sharp enough - but the dof is very shallow, you've got to be spot on.

1.5m measured is past 1.5m on the lens - its where you image 1.7m would be

3m measure again is past 3m on the lens, where you would imagine 5m would be

and of course you cannot get to infinity as its past infinity on the lens

I tried the same with the 58mm lens, but it's so soft that I couldn't get a sharp focus point at all, but infinity was obviously out.


so don't bother with landscapes....


So I don't want to be on too much of a downer, but the viewfinders are well off. The front wobbles so that only flash pictures are sharp. It won't focus.
I get the Lomo thing, I know not to compare this with other cameras I own, but these issues aren't difficult to have sorted.

I think the best way to shoot might be to hold it to your chest, brace the front, and use a spirit level to aim and shoot with ( so really shooting from the hip). I'll choose subjects between 2-4m away and expect most things to be blurred.

FWIW my Holga gives far sharper images

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #82 on: December 14, 2012, 12:29:38 PM »
I knew it was too good to be true, coming from the Lomo-Kamp.
L.

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #83 on: December 14, 2012, 12:51:14 PM »
They just released two glass lenses for this camera, too: http://usa.shop.lomography.com/cameras/belair-cameras/belair-lenses-and-accessories

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #84 on: December 14, 2012, 02:46:59 PM »
For me, the most important thing is a good viewfinder. What's the point in pointing the camera at something if it doesn't give you what you see?

I guess I'll have to wait until they come up with version 2.0

Why can't anyone find the time to do things correctly the first time?
It's not more expensive to do good work than it is to produce something shoddy.
Francois

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charles binns

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #85 on: December 14, 2012, 04:13:25 PM »
It's a shame because it's a nice looking camera.

Perhaps the Lomo strap line "Don't think just shoot" should be replaced by "Don't think just spend".

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #86 on: December 14, 2012, 05:24:37 PM »
DD, you didn't mention the aperture you used.  It's good news that the focus is spot on at 1 metre, but do you think that sharp focus at one mile might be achieved within the f.16 depth of field?

DonkeyDave

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #87 on: December 15, 2012, 07:26:40 AM »
I did check focus at f16, I didn't mention it as obviously the sharp focus point is harder to measure with the smaller aperture. At f16 infinity is still out of focus. I've reproduced this on film, at f16 and the lens on infinity theres a notion of focus around 5m into the image, but everything else is OOF.

The problem is the lens to film plane is just too long. There won't be much in it, but it's enough for the camera basically not to work. I've had a look and there isn't an easy fix for this, and am reluctant to start bending the scissor mechanism to shorten the lens-film plane distance.

The camera is pretty well constructed, which makes it likely that my camera isn't an isolated case. Looking at images on flickr the most successful images are in the 2-4m range, where it seems to work pretty well.

I've managed on occasion to get some sharpness in images. Its very tricky to get a decent image. The front standard wobbles so you have to really brace it, the viewfinders are hopeless, so the best approach is to brace the camera against your chest and point it in the general direction, I use a level on the flash mount to help.

I've had a bit of criticism for not getting the lomo thing. I shoot with a Holga and like the dreamy images it gives, I understand plastic lenses. The Belair isn't sharp, it isn't dreamy, it just looks like you got it wrong most of the time. The Belair was advertised as giving 'super-sharp' images and the examples that Lomo put on the website are sharp, but mostly flash images in studio - where the front end wobble is less of an issue.

The camera could be brilliant, its so nearly there. However it misses by enough  margin for me to start being reluctant to fill it with 120 film (which it consumes at quite a rate).

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Re: risking derision... lomo has a new camera 6x12 medium format
« Reply #88 on: December 15, 2012, 02:39:53 PM »
Somehow, I suspect that they shipped the camera with shoddy plastic lenses in order to get people to buy their more expensive glass counterparts.

The focus problem could be fixed by adding an intermediate lens between the camera and lens (like they did on my m42-nikon adapter). But I doubt they will.

Focus could also be reached by making the aperture smaller than f/16 (and setting the ISO wheel accordingly). But that would require taking the lens apart and modifying the aperture mechanism.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.