Author Topic: Nekotech - Lens Hacking - Wai Wai 17mm. (Read 34982 times)

Skorj · « **on:** June 19, 2011, 11:03:58 AM »

My Wai-Wai was getting a bit old, so having another in the drawer, I decided while the film advance & shutter could be retired, its sweet little 17mm lens was too good to be trashed. Original Wai Wai here.

Even the native viewfinder was salvagable with some little mods:

Now, where's that M9 to check a few things... Results to follow. Skj.

This-is-damion · « **Reply #1 on:** June 19, 2011, 11:13:23 AM »

please tell me this works....i have 2 of these somewhere.

Skorj · « **Reply #2 on:** June 19, 2011, 11:25:33 AM »

Quote from: This-is-damion on June 19, 2011, 11:13:23 AM

please tell me this works....i have 2 of these somewhere.

Yes, it works. Just testing with Mijonju's M9 this afternoon, shows the concept is fine, and I just need to adjust the registration distance a smidge. Realigned since these were taken, and I need to fix some sealing, then we're ready for more tests.

I suppose I will have to mount the original mirror on the front again too. Skj.

This-is-damion · « **Reply #3 on:** June 19, 2011, 11:55:42 AM »

nice work brother skorji.

Francois · « **Reply #4 on:** June 19, 2011, 03:16:22 PM »

Nice hack!
You're lucky to have a rangefinder handy. many of these tricks don't work with SLR's simply because the camera is too thick (it has to accomodate the mirror)

mijonju · « **Reply #5 on:** June 19, 2011, 03:50:39 PM »

here are the random test shots taken in the streets of shinjuku,
1. almost perfect, just a little more inwards
2. Testing weather is should be moved forward or backwards
3. Protrude too much outwards became macro.

Francois · « **Reply #6 on:** June 19, 2011, 05:05:58 PM »

Quote from: mijonju on June 19, 2011, 03:50:39 PM

3. Protrude too much outwards became macro.

Usually the problem... I'm trying to figure out a way to make one with a longer registration distance that I could use on my Nikon (just for the fun of it)

mijonju · « **Reply #7 on:** June 19, 2011, 05:30:43 PM »

dont think its possible because of the space for the mirror, you need another piece of lens to get it right.

moominsean · « **Reply #8 on:** June 19, 2011, 09:55:36 PM »

interesting that it doesn't look quite as wide as the original wai wai body...i'll have to go back and look at my older images, but sis maybe the wai wai's picture frame slightly longer? or maybe it's just a trick of the eyes because of the lack of focus.

maybe i can throw the lens onto a polaroid camera!

DS · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2011, 09:57:19 PM »

This is cool. I've been meaning to do the same thing with the lens from a vivitar UWS but have yet to get around to ordering a spare M or m39 mount body cap.

mijonju · « **Reply #10 on:** June 20, 2011, 05:34:53 AM »

Quote from: moominsean on June 19, 2011, 09:55:36 PM

interesting that it doesn't look quite as wide as the original wai wai body...i'll have to go back and look at my older images, but sis maybe the wai wai's picture frame slightly longer? or maybe it's just a trick of the eyes because of the lack of focus.

maybe i can throw the lens onto a polaroid camera!

I think that is because in the wai wai, the film is curved, if you open it up you will see its not flat.
and curving the film can help it to get wider.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #11 on:** June 20, 2011, 01:41:14 PM »

Quote from: mijonju on June 20, 2011, 05:34:53 AM

I think that is because in the wai wai, the film is curved, if you open it up you will see its not flat.
and curving the film can help it to get wider.

aah, that might be hard to mod for. I think my kodak pano disposable was the same.

Quote from: Skorj on June 19, 2011, 11:25:33 AM

I suppose I will have to mount the original mirror on the front again too. Skj.

a must!

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #12 on:** June 20, 2011, 03:10:06 PM »

Great fun. Good luck with the final modifications.

This thread reminds me that I have a Wai Wai (donated some years ago to the Wenn Family Camera Museum by a dashing Australian over her on a biz trip from Japan). I shot the film in 2007 and have yet to process it. I need to hunt down the article on how to re-use your Wai Wai first.

Francois · « **Reply #13 on:** June 20, 2011, 03:56:22 PM »

Quote from: mijonju on June 20, 2011, 05:34:53 AM

I think that is because in the wai wai, the film is curved, if you open it up you will see its not flat.
and curving the film can help it to get wider.

Actually, almost all cheap cameras with a single meniscus lens have a curved pressure plate/film plane. I think this is done to even out the focus across the entire frame

Skorj · « **Reply #14 on:** July 03, 2011, 08:17:30 AM »

Done. Even the native Wai Wai 17mm viewfinder was used. A brief morning testing in Ginza with one of these digital computer camera things.

Nice and 17mm looking, and though the M9 appears to have chromatic aberrations - perhaps the result of its Germaness being asked to process images from a 700 yen triplet of Japanese plastic - some film with latitude will likely look substantially better.

In B&W mode though, the performance is a lot better.

Next, some tests with a real camera, and some film... But, the concept obviously works, and seems to work well. See ya! Skj.

Terry · « **Reply #15 on:** July 03, 2011, 01:05:42 PM »

I kinda like the vignette, and there's nothing cooler than your periscope VF. Great hacking job, sir.

Francois · « **Reply #16 on:** July 03, 2011, 03:43:19 PM »

Quote from: Skorj on July 03, 2011, 08:17:30 AM

Nice and 17mm looking, and though the M9 appears to have chromatic aberrations - perhaps the result of its Germaness being asked to process images from a 700 yen triplet of Japanese plastic - some film with latitude will likely look substantially better.

Quite true. But the same issue would be very present with any non-film camera.
Thing is the sensors are built like a series of straws stuck together (I'm oversimplifying the photon tunnel thing). Light needs to come in a straight line to get a good image. On the simple wide angle lenses, light comes at a very strong angle and has to bounce inside the sensor to get to the sensitive part. Also, the sensor is a mirror finish which causes light to bounce around the film chamber and reduces contrast.

My motto is simple lens+simple camera=sublime results

LT · « **Reply #17 on:** July 03, 2011, 04:54:16 PM »

Nice idea, but I'll reserve judgment until I see some results from a real camera. M9 MSchmein.

Jon Butler · « **Reply #18 on:** July 03, 2011, 06:23:58 PM »

M9-----Filmwasters, why not a real Leica?

J.

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #19 on:** July 03, 2011, 07:25:13 PM »

Great job, Skorj

This-is-damion · « **Reply #20 on:** July 03, 2011, 08:34:52 PM »

Ha! Great work, love the look of the m9 with the lens and viewfinder attached.

Skorj · « **Reply #21 on:** July 04, 2011, 02:10:10 AM »

Quote from: Francois on July 03, 2011, 03:43:19 PM

Quite true. But the same issue would be very present with any non-film camera.
Thing is the sensors are built like a series of straws stuck together (I'm oversimplifying the photon tunnel thing). Light needs to come in a straight line to get a good image. On the simple wide angle lenses, light comes at a very strong angle and has to bounce inside the sensor to get to the sensitive part. Also, the sensor is a mirror finish which causes light to bounce around the film chamber and reduces contrast.

My motto is simple lens+simple camera=sublime results

That would explain the fringing I suppose, but not why the sensor only did it on one or two edges. I suppose the same argument would apply - the light just wasn't right right. I seem to recall the M8 had crappy sensor capability too, fringing similarly. Just use film!

Quote from: JON BUTLER on July 03, 2011, 06:23:58 PM

M9-----Filmwasters, why not a real Leica?
J.

Because I needed something quick and dirty, for registration distance testing. Do not worry, the Wai Wai is now installed on a real camera with some FujiPro 400 for real testing...

Mijonju & I were toying with a Wai Wai, his 17mm Instax LC-W, and the Bessa 21mm aux viewfinder, and though the 21mm framelines are just that, the whole field of view of the 21mm viewfinder is as close as needed to the field of view of the 17mm lens. Perfect, a dual purpose VF! Skj.

LT · « **Reply #22 on:** July 04, 2011, 08:46:55 AM »

Now that's more like it - suddenly, it has new meaning to me (etc)

chris_n · « **Reply #23 on:** July 04, 2011, 08:53:20 AM »

absolutely lovely! i'm also so jealous of your grey r3a! i was saving up for it and then the last one in stock sold

Skorj · « **Reply #24 on:** July 04, 2011, 09:25:13 AM »

Quote from: chris_n on July 04, 2011, 08:53:20 AM

absolutely lovely! i'm also so jealous of your grey r3a! i was saving up for it and then the last one in stock sold

Ha! More on just that for me too here: The Submarine. I love it too! Especially, as it does this with FujiPro 400 and its new Wai Wai 17mm:

OK. So what do we get? First of all, its def the full 17mm Wai Wai deal, we get a little vignette (for a toycam user), or a lot of vignette (for a regular cam users), some flaring, blurred edges, sharp(ish) center, and with FujiPro 400 some great latitude. Just about the same as the original Wai Wai.

The everything-from-50cm-to-infinity in focus is a neat trick, as is still having the mirror on the front for the classic Wai Wai self-portraits. A great experiment, and one recommended if you've got an old worn out Wai Wai laying about the house. See ya! Skj.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #25 on:** July 04, 2011, 03:43:48 PM »

now I'm thinking about hacking that disposable kodak pan cam I have lieing around. hehee~

chris_n · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2011, 09:59:47 AM »

very cool stuff. thanks for the example images! there's something that's stopping me from getting the normal black r3a SOLELY because i know i could have gotten a grey one

gary m · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2011, 02:16:15 AM »

Great stuff Skorj. I have been inspired

Skorj · « **Reply #28 on:** July 06, 2011, 08:30:21 AM »

Quote from: jojonas on July 04, 2011, 03:43:48 PM

now I'm thinking about hacking that disposable kodak pan cam I have lieing around. hehee~

The possibilities are endless!

jojonas~ · « **Reply #29 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:48:42 PM »

yup! that's the one tried to reuse the whole camera but failed kind of hard :/

original_ann · « **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2011, 02:21:18 AM »

Holy Fun-ness!!!!

Francois · « **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2011, 03:11:42 PM »

Reminds me of the Loreo Lens in a cap... only at a lower cost
http://www.loreo.com/pages/products/loreo_lenscap.html

astrobeck · « **Reply #32 on:** July 07, 2011, 05:48:34 PM »

Never knew about the Loreo lens in a cap....just ordered one for the F2.

Should be fun for the summer!

Skorj always has uber cool camera/lens hacks!

gary m · « **Reply #33 on:** July 08, 2011, 03:04:14 PM »

Ha, I have a lens in the cap. Thanks for reminding me

Skorj · « **Reply #34 on:** July 13, 2011, 10:56:12 AM »

Last set, I promise. This time with Ilford's excellent XP2 Super. Where we started; with the reloaded Wai Wai. Nice results, and a definite keeper this 17mm lens. Plastic though it may be, its got a great feeling, bringing some nice grain at f11 sometimes:

jojonas~ · « **Reply #35 on:** July 17, 2011, 12:35:47 PM »

looking good, skorj

I notice a pleasant blur along the edges that I really like~

moominsean · « **Reply #36 on:** September 18, 2011, 03:06:03 AM »

Hacked a cheap Vivitar to use the 17mm Wai Wai lens, will test it tomorrow!

Skorj · « **Reply #37 on:** September 18, 2011, 03:48:43 AM »

Quote from: moominsean on September 18, 2011, 03:06:03 AM

Hacked a cheap Vivitar to use the 17mm Wai Wai lens, will test it tomorrow!

That's pretty neat! More in keeping with the original Wai Wai too. I've seen a few pop up on Japan Auction sites, and they run to about \3000, so still a viable thing to buy and consume the lenses. Look forward to the results!

Were you able to put the Wai Wai VF into the Vivitar too? Skj.

moominsean · « **Reply #38 on:** September 18, 2011, 04:17:27 AM »

I made an effort, testing on another vivitar, but the finder is tied in with the pano switch. Take it out and that function doesn't work. If that didn't matter (and I may decide it doesn't) swapping finders is pretty simple. Would just take a bit of glue to hold the waiwai finder in place. But I wanted the camera to work as before.

moominsean · « **Reply #39 on:** September 19, 2011, 12:37:49 AM »

The Vivitar Wai Wai hack was pretty much a fail all around. One issue that would have been correctable is the aperture, which is much smaller on the Wai Wai...so my photos were super overexposed. The problem that isn't correctable is the focal length, which is longer with the Vivitar, and there is no room to reduce it in the camera. There is one thin piece of plastic between the shutter and the lens, so no way to bring the lens closer to the film plane. Bummer! Will see what other options are available!

Skorj · « **Reply #40 on:** September 19, 2011, 02:58:44 AM »

I left the Wai Wai aperture in place, and the registration distance from rear element / or aperture was about 14mm, so it should be possible? Perhaps the lens needs to sit proud? Skj.

moominsean · « **Reply #41 on:** September 19, 2011, 04:04:52 AM »

Most "cheap" cameras have the shutter right behind the lens, so there is no way to get the rear element any closer to the focal plane than that shutter...which is too far away for the Wai Wai lens. I tried to rig it behind the shutter, but then it is too close! The way you did it with the Bessa allows for play room, which you don't have with point and shoots. Still going to keep my eyes open for a viable camera to hack.

Just for fun I hung it in front of the Bronica...but by the time you get an image in the finder, the lens is in the way of the mirror!

Author Topic: Nekotech - Lens Hacking - Wai Wai 17mm. (Read 34982 times)

Terry

astrobeck