Author Topic: Developing/Print help  (Read 1963 times)

Verian

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Developing/Print help
« on: January 22, 2014, 05:08:40 PM »
Prompted by this:

I'd like to, but my prints suck at the moment. I need a lot more practice before sharing.

I'm certain your prints do not suck Verian ... but there is no pressure to join in. We will definitely do it again, so you'll have other opportunities.

BUT ... please, anyone, dont feel this is about quality and ability. All are welcome, beginners and old pros (!?!?!?!? ;) )

Oh but they do Leon, they really do  :'( Hopefully I'll be better at it by the time it comes around again as I'd like to have a go.
If you want good tips, we can provide some on another thread :)

My prints (which I am new to, are, for want of a better expression, a bit grey. Heres an example of ilford delta developed in ifosol3 for 11 minutes at 24 degrees (that's from memory, i may revise it) and printed on Ilford multigrade using a colour enlarger.



There are several more here: http://verianthomas.com/?p=1041

These were taken with a Bronica ETRS.

There's also some 35mm taken with an EXA 1A such as this one:



more here: http://verianthomas.com/?p=1021

Which were a little more successful. I feel i'm lacking black and white, if that makes sense. I am reading a book that was kindly given to me but am still fumbling my way through. Any thoughts to create better prints that anybody has would be most welcome.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 05:22:24 PM by Verian »
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Francois

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2014, 11:20:48 PM »
OK, lets start from the beginning. I don't have any experience with Ilfosol3, but you'll be able to learn from the general rules.
First thing is development. Since you're using a color enlarger, this means that you have a diffusion head. These are great for minimizing scratches and dust, but they are also of a lower contrast than condensers. This means that you have to develop negatives so that they are a bit more contrasty than for condensers. You might have to overdevelop them a tiny bit.

For enlarging, you have three factors:
-time
-grade
-aperture

For aperture it's simple: your lens is at its sharpest about 2 stops from its maximum aperture (usually 5.6 or 8). So you expose at that aperture.

For time and grade it's a bit more complex.
The time depends on the paper, enlarger height, aperture and filtration. Since you have a negative, it means that the blacks are set by the transparent parts. So exposing for those is a good start. The clear parts of the film should give the densest blacks.

When you do a test strip, forget the 1,2,3 second thing. It's better to do them logarithmically. I know it sounds complicated but in reality it isn't. Just expose the whole strip for 1 second, cover a small strip to make the first stop and add 1 second to the rest. Now move the card and add 2 seconds, move and add 4... and so on. You'll notice that the first block will be 1 sec, second will be 1+1=2, third will be 2+2=4, fourth will be 4+4=8... and so on. A perfect log progression. Why is it better? well, your camera works in the same way both speed wise and aperture wise. One block will equal 1 stop. Easy.

Now when you expose the first print, it's easy to know what to do. Print is too light? Add one stop exposure by doubling the time. Too dark? Remove one stop by dividing by half. And so on...

The paper can only record about 9 stops variation, so the possibilities are quite limited in a way.

The printed image is still dull? Then you might need to change the grade. The enlarger without any filter should give you a grade 2. Add yellow to make the print flatter, magenta to make it "contrastier". Now, changing grades will change the exposure on a color head. But to make things easier, manufacturers publish in the booklets some compensation factors for different filtration. I made a small sheet with the information and the various filtration/grade variants. I just take the exposure for a flat print and apply the factor to get something at least proper. Rough estimating the values usually work.

If your enlarger doesn't have any information available, you can make a compensation chart using a good exposure meter (regular, not a print meter) and dialing in the various values (no neg in the enlarger).

This is basically how I do my prints. It might look complex but in practice it isn't.

Hope this helps...
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

LT

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 07:36:50 PM »
François has given a very helpful reply. The only thing I'll add will  disagree slightly with his approach (neither are wrong, just different ways to approach the print) .....

I wouldnt expose for the blacks. Expose for the highlights. Pick the the most important area that you want tone in, and do a test strip over this area. Choose the step that shows the first hint of grey. Do a full print at this time and at grade 2 ish. If the print is too grey with no blacks. Increase the contrast grade. If the shadows are too dark with no details, decrease the contrast grade. This way will give you a greater control over print values.

François way of exposing for max black is helpful for proof prints or contact sheets.
L.

LT

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 07:39:02 PM »
... But as Francois says, you will have to do a new highlight test a trip each time you change grade, unless you start using ilford under lens contrast filters.
L.

Francois

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 10:05:05 PM »
Or using the filter factors.

Both Leon's approach and mine are equally valid. They do give very different looks to the final print.

Leon's prints tend to have a lot of subtle tones while mine are more graphic.
I find that I always print a bit harder than some other printers. I also like grain a lot, something that begs for fairly high contrast.

Francois

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Verian

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 10:21:22 AM »
Thanks for the detailed response Francois and Leon. I have a roll of 35mm HP5 to develop tonight (if I get the time) and I shall have a print out of this thread by my side to see if I can put the advice into practice and achieve some results I'm happier with. I'll report back. Thanks again.
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rotarysmp

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 12:08:39 PM »
Before concentrating on the prints, are you sure you are not underexposing / under developing your negatives?  When you are starting off printing, it really helps to start with some good negatives. Those "grey" prints look like the sort of result I get from thin negatives on grade 2 or three. If you pump up the contract say with Grade 5, the prints may still suck, as you just get blocked up shadows and blow out highlights. I am sure a master printer can make an excellent print even from thin negatives, but as a beginner working with them leads to frustration.

Just an idea, if you exposed todays roll of HP5 at the same ISO as the previous rolls, and the previous negatives look thin, then develop these ones for 30% longer. See if that gives you a bit better negs to work with. Just a band-aid, but since you have already exposed the roll it may help.

There was an article on the digital darkroom, which recommended shooting a film with 3x negatives of each scene. Bracket the exposures 2 stops over, and two stops under and develop. This way should be nearly guaranteed some good negatives and a better feel for what the correct film speed is for your own process. A few rolls invested on bracketing is a cheap investment which should reduce the frustration.

Keep at it. The results are magic when a fine print of your own work hangs on the wall.
Best regards, Meilleures salutations, Mit freundlichen Grüßen, Cu salutari
Mark
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Francois

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2014, 03:07:21 PM »
Having a good negative to start with is always the best advise. Process for the correct density range.
I found that using a yellow filter on the camera helps tremendously in getting good negs.
Actually, all B&W filters are useful depending on what you want from a scene. I'd even go as far as saying that they're probably the best kept secret in B&W photography!
Francois

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Verian

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2014, 05:14:57 PM »
My time is 11 minutes in ifosol 3, so I'm looking at 14.3 minutes, which I find a little scary. Can't help feeling that I'll end up with blank negatives, however, I'm very tempted to give it a go.

I think one of the problems is that I use different cameras and films all the time, which makes it a bit more difficult to keep tabs on.
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rotarysmp

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2014, 08:54:12 PM »
You wont get blank negatives by souping them a bit longer. You'll get more contrasty negs. The extra time in the developer will make the highlights denser, but make little difference to the shadows where there was little exposed silver for the developer to act on.   B&W film is pretty tolerant stuff, and is more tolerant to over exposure than under, but the better you can nail the exposures, the easier the printing is.

Definately a good idea to buy a 20 pack of some mainstream film and stick with D-76 for the whole brick. Sacrifice a couple of films for testing, just go out the back yard and try bracketed photos to get a feel for your film speed and development time.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 09:40:40 PM by rotarysmp »
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Francois

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2014, 09:04:53 PM »
Don't forget you're using a diffusion head. You can overdevelop a bit and it's just going to be easier to print. (though getting things exact is the best. overdeveloping will reduce the detail and increase contrast)
Francois

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Mike (happyforest)

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2014, 09:40:37 PM »
Somewhere I have an Ilford reference negative, which I would be happy to loan you if it would be of use.

Mike

Verian

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2014, 09:00:52 AM »
Thanks all. I did the developing last night and they have turned out a lot better than the last lot. I did exactly the same thing but developed them for 20% longer, 8.5 minutes instead of 7 (I know you said 30% but I'm a coward!). here are a couple of scans of the negative, and they are a lot better than the scans I was previously getting. At some point soon I will take the next step and try and get better prints.





More at www.verianthomas.com



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Francois

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Re: Developing/Print help
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 02:47:37 PM »
That's much closer to what I would do.
I tend to like a print with at least one good black and one good white. I just let the rest fall in the middle
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.