Author Topic: Daido on the essence of photography  (Read 2336 times)

Francois

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Daido on the essence of photography
« on: December 22, 2016, 08:28:07 PM »
Here's a very interesting interview done by the San Francisco MOMA

https://www.sfmoma.org/watch/daido-moriyama-essence-photography/
Francois

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Kai-san

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2016, 05:45:42 PM »
Thanks Francois, I love listening to Daido talking about photography. There are some interesting videos on this site, but why do they have to put this stupid muzak on top of everything?
Kai


If you want to change your photographs, you need to change cameras.

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Francois

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2016, 08:29:59 PM »
That sure beats me...
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Late Developer

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2016, 06:00:57 PM »
Thanks for posting Francois.  Interesting, as you say.

A few years ago, I went to a joint exhibition of Daido Moriyama's work alongside William Klein's, at Tate Modern in London. Although I'm not a big fan of either photographer, I prefer Klein's work for no other reason than, to my eye, it has some sort of "order" to it and contrary to my usual preference for black and white, I love the way Klein makes the colours bleed into one another.  In the exhibition, Moriyama made the statement that he simply goes out, points and shoots. In those days, he was using a Ricoh GR1s (or GR1v I can't remember) and didn't even look through the viewfinder most of the time.  For some reason, this just didn't (and still doesn't) sit easily with me.

In a way, Moriyama is the polar opposite of HCB as HCB spent a lot of time looking and composing before hitting the shutter release.  This could be why I prefer HCB's work.

"An ounce of perception. A pound of obscure".

Late Developer

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 06:35:30 PM »
....by the way, I spotted (and bought) a copy of a Japanese imported DVD of "Near Equal" by Daido Moriyama in one of the (many) "sale" boxes at Tate Modern, the other day.  I watched it today and he's an interesting fellow and it's worth a watch.  It's also available on YouTube (just found it) for anyone interested or, like me, didn't know much about the man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUAk84LDFVA
"An ounce of perception. A pound of obscure".

Francois

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 09:45:51 PM »
One thing that's funny about Daido is that he's come to the point where he knows perfectly the limits of the lens on his GR1. That way he doesn't need to look to frame rather precisely. I did try his technique using my digicam and was surprised at how fast you can get the hang of it. And it's super discrete too.

Also, he uses a printing technique that involves thin paper masks that get removed mid exposure so that only part of the image grain is sharp.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Indofunk

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 10:04:47 PM »
Here's a better version where you can actually read the subtitles ;)

http://youtu.be/EaeEx0Uvef8

My takeaways are as follows:
1. Never buy a camera
2. Always shoot Tri-X. (This, incidentally, is the same thing that The Jazz Loft taught me, yet here I am still shooting Gold @1600 [in addition to Tri-X, of course])
3. Looks like he did a 2 year drug binge/retirement phase just like Miles Davis. I could be a person who just copies the mannerisms of his heroes instead of their actual art, and go on a 2 year drug binge myself. You think I could get enough backers on Kickstarter to fund this? :D

Francois

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 10:35:20 PM »
I've known so many drug user in my life that I never could figure out why they do it. I know it sounds funny but if you want the ultimate buzz you just have to go to Time Square riding a bicycle... adrenaline rush guaranteed!

But yes, Tri-X is a mandatory passage. But I found that HP5 is just as good, only with a different accent ;)
As for that buying a camera part... I might have a slight problem with that right now  ::)
As far as I know, he's one of the rare photographers who doesn't suffer from GAS... I have yet to attain that zen state.
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2016, 04:12:01 AM »
Thanks for posting Francois.  Interesting, as you say.

A few years ago, I went to a joint exhibition of Daido Moriyama's work alongside William Klein's, at Tate Modern in London. Although I'm not a big fan of either photographer, I prefer Klein's work for no other reason than, to my eye, it has some sort of "order" to it and contrary to my usual preference for black and white, I love the way Klein makes the colours bleed into one another.  In the exhibition, Moriyama made the statement that he simply goes out, points and shoots. In those days, he was using a Ricoh GR1s (or GR1v I can't remember) and didn't even look through the viewfinder most of the time.  For some reason, this just didn't (and still doesn't) sit easily with me.

In a way, Moriyama is the polar opposite of HCB as HCB spent a lot of time looking and composing before hitting the shutter release.  This could be why I prefer HCB's work.

This is very true....but the lack of order is by design.  The whole method behind Daido's work still harkens back to his Provoke roots.  This was essentially changing everything about the photographic process and result.  Chaos was the goal.

A few things now....Daido is using digital gear...almost no film for years.  His b&w is produced via Silver Efex.  Printing is now inkjet...mainly.  That said, Daido is more interested in books than selling prints. I was fortunate enough to attend one of his shows in Tokyo early this year.  Incredible to view his work in his native Tokyo.  While I kept hoping to see him in Shibuya, Shinjuku, or the Golden Gai...but no such luck.

Late Developer

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2016, 08:12:15 AM »
Thanks for posting Francois.  Interesting, as you say.

A few years ago, I went to a joint exhibition of Daido Moriyama's work alongside William Klein's, at Tate Modern in London. Although I'm not a big fan of either photographer, I prefer Klein's work for no other reason than, to my eye, it has some sort of "order" to it and contrary to my usual preference for black and white, I love the way Klein makes the colours bleed into one another.  In the exhibition, Moriyama made the statement that he simply goes out, points and shoots. In those days, he was using a Ricoh GR1s (or GR1v I can't remember) and didn't even look through the viewfinder most of the time.  For some reason, this just didn't (and still doesn't) sit easily with me.

In a way, Moriyama is the polar opposite of HCB as HCB spent a lot of time looking and composing before hitting the shutter release.  This could be why I prefer HCB's work.

This is very true....but the lack of order is by design.  The whole method behind Daido's work still harkens back to his Provoke roots.  This was essentially changing everything about the photographic process and result.  Chaos was the goal.

A few things now....Daido is using digital gear...almost no film for years.  His b&w is produced via Silver Efex.  Printing is now inkjet...mainly.  That said, Daido is more interested in books than selling prints. I was fortunate enough to attend one of his shows in Tokyo early this year.  Incredible to view his work in his native Tokyo.  While I kept hoping to see him in Shibuya, Shinjuku, or the Golden Gai...but no such luck.

Yes, I get that now I've seen the film.  The "are-bure-boke" or "rough, blurred, out-of-focus" methodology wasn't something with which I was familiar and I considered as wasteful, more than anything. Although it still isn't something I'd set as a goal for myself, I can see and appreciate that it was DM's key objective.  At the exhibition with William Klein's work in London a few years ago, it was touched upon but, for whatever reason, it didn't come across (at least to me) as strongly as it might have done. 

I have to admit that I laughed at the bit of the DVD where Araki was explaining that DM never bought cameras (not strictly true) but borrowed and did not return them.  In one of the "extras" that comes with the film, DM explains how he believes photographers need to think about having a camera and the photography the will produce, in the digital age.  I don't know what the situation is in Japan but DM appears to be of the view that film is redundant (as evidenced by his adoption of digital capture and inkjet print).  I hope he's wrong, in the widest sense.  He's a big fan of prints and, especially, photobooks - but not exhibitions.  That doesn't sit 100% comfortably, in my view, with the general, amateur photography, approach to digital - as it's been the death of "mass" printing of photos taken - with most relying on JPEGs to post on Instagram, Facebook and other digital sharing media.

All-in-all, the DVD was a real eye opener for me.  I still don't see it as a genre I want to exploit much myself, but I do respect it more than I did previously.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2016, 08:15:17 AM by Late Developer »
"An ounce of perception. A pound of obscure".

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 05:10:41 PM »
I too am a bit disappointed with his transition from film to digital.  The look since he changed over is different.  I dont always like it.  I see this more and more of course.  James Whitlow Delano used a Lecia M2 and Kodak film....now a Sony fixed lens 35 fullframe model. 

In the case of Daido, I still love his work....but I do enjoy his older stuff more...and that was all shot on film.

Francois

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2016, 08:43:19 PM »
Dylan did put it best: "The times they are a changin'."
Francois

Film is the vinyl record of photography.

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2016, 11:56:47 PM »
I too am a bit disappointed with his transition from film to digital.  The look since he changed over is different.  I dont always like it.  I see this more and more of course.  James Whitlow Delano used a Lecia M2 and Kodak film....now a Sony fixed lens 35 fullframe model. 

In the case of Daido, I still love his work....but I do enjoy his older stuff more...and that was all shot on film.

I might be wrong but, the impression I received from the film, was that DM couldn't give a monkey's chuff whether he's using film, digital or whatever as a means of recording his photos.  His aim is to get an image with which he's happy and using digital improves the percentages as he's not having to reload every 36 shots.  No disrespect to the guy but his photos aren't (and don't ever seem to have been) typified by the sort of attention to processing / printing quality that the work of Edward Weston, Paul Strand or Ansel Adams would have enjoyed.  Consequently, a film point and shoot shot compared to a digital point and shoot shot probably makes little difference to the ultimate output, given the current comparisons between Ricoh GR1s and compact digital. 
"An ounce of perception. A pound of obscure".

Faintandfuzzy

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2016, 12:25:05 AM »
I too am a bit disappointed with his transition from film to digital.  The look since he changed over is different.  I dont always like it.  I see this more and more of course.  James Whitlow Delano used a Lecia M2 and Kodak film....now a Sony fixed lens 35 fullframe model. 

In the case of Daido, I still love his work....but I do enjoy his older stuff more...and that was all shot on film.

I might be wrong but, the impression I received from the film, was that DM couldn't give a monkey's chuff whether he's using film, digital or whatever as a means of recording his photos.  His aim is to get an image with which he's happy and using digital improves the percentages as he's not having to reload every 36 shots.  No disrespect to the guy but his photos aren't (and don't ever seem to have been) typified by the sort of attention to processing / printing quality that the work of Edward Weston, Paul Strand or Ansel Adams would have enjoyed.  Consequently, a film point and shoot shot compared to a digital point and shoot shot probably makes little difference to the ultimate output, given the current comparisons between Ricoh GR1s and compact digital.

Very true...and valid points.  I wish we had a "Like" button in these forums!

clagom

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2017, 11:40:10 AM »
Daido Moriyama is one of my favourite photographers. I love his aesthetic, and of course he doesn't always shoot without composing. I got several books with his photographs, and one of them is a signed copy of the Record N.13. All instant Polaroids shot with the Polaroid Land 180. Also his colour series (even if much more rare) is amazing. Great photographer.

rpmdrd

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 02:37:00 AM »
had to watch it again. was snoozing when I first watched and actually snoozed as well. i think his personality and philosophy about photography speak for itself.

hookstrapped

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 12:11:32 PM »
This is my favorite little clip of him

https://youtu.be/gmCDPB4ZYLQ

astrobeck

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 01:17:13 PM »
This is my favorite little clip of him

https://youtu.be/gmCDPB4ZYLQ

From the clip...
"photography is a medium and habit that is quite seductive"......
I have to agree.  Sometimes I wonder if it's just a habit for me....?

Flippy

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Re: Daido on the essence of photography
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 04:24:39 PM »
In response to the first video, I have to agree with that sentiment to a point. I've always found, for instance, box cameras to be really interesting. Because of this image in my head of Edwardians on vacation, pointing little black boxes at things they liked, pressing a button, and the little black box makes a two dimensional copy of the thing for them to keep. But for some reason this mind-image only works for me when the camera is abstract in the extreme, a literal magic box that copies things people like. Somehow when the box becomes something more intricate, it loses a lot of that charm and mystique.  When it becomes an actual camera, with identifiable features like a lens and a viewfinder, and controls that let the person be a photographer, most of that "magic" evaporates. But I still get the idea of photography being about making copies of things, rather than being about processes, craft, and visions.

In response to the rest, Moriyama sits in a rather strange spot in my mind. I do rather like his photographs, and I do rather like his concepts, but I also feel like he is one of those photographers who got "lucky" by getting in on the ground floor so to speak. That there are others who can do what he does, and do it better, but won't be recognized because they were either born too late or just picked up a camera after he did. Moriyama is, in my mind, rather like an expert amateur, instead of the photography genius other people seem to see him as.