Author Topic: New Leica/Instax Camera (Read 8462 times)

Bryan · « **on:** September 13, 2016, 07:02:56 PM »

To be announced in a few days. A lot of money for a re-branded Instax camera but if it helps the film industry then great. I have yet to try the Instax film, I still have a lot of pack film to use up before I think about changing instant formats. It will be interesting to see if it gives much better results than the Fuji cameras.

http://leicarumors.com/2016/09/13/the-new-leica-sofort-instant-camera-will-be-announced-on-september-15th.aspx/

jharr · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2016, 08:40:41 PM »

I haven't yet grasped the idea of putting high quality lenses on instax film cameras. The film's resolution has to be an order of magnitude less than the lens, so what's the point? It's not like you can swap out the back and put a roll of Ektar in it.

Francois · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2016, 09:12:55 PM »

Well, Instax is still pretty sharp. The main problem is that nobody makes a camera with a good enough lens to test what the film can really do.

I know a few who used to hang out here years ago did try and put individual sheets in a camera and process it in the dark using a rolling pin.
From memory, the results were more than acceptable.

Personally, I really wonder what the GUI will look like. One of the things I don't like about the Instax is the automation. So if they deal with that in a smart way, I think it could turn out to be an impressive but expensive tool.

AJShepherd · « **Reply #3 on:** September 13, 2016, 09:33:52 PM »

No, wait... Is this April again?

clagom · « **Reply #4 on:** September 13, 2016, 10:33:31 PM »

They will also "make" (rebrand?) Instax Mini film: http://photorumors.com/2016/09/13/leaked-leica-sofort-instant-camera/
It seems just a rebranded Instax 90 to me. Missed opportunity to have a serious camera, manual controls, with a better lens, wide format not mini.
Indeed Instax film is not bad, the cameras are...

Indofunk · « **Reply #5 on:** September 13, 2016, 10:57:49 PM »

My favorite parts of that infoadverticle are:

"fits especially to the Monochrom film pretty good"
"Optical viewfinder: Get the feeling of a 'real camera'"

I know it's not nice to make fun of someone speaking/writing in a non-native language, but I think multinational companies and (especially) advertisers should be held to a higher standard...

jharr · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2016, 12:15:04 AM »

Yes, and now I know to stay away from color film if I want to take 'creative' images. Monochrom FTW!

tkmedia · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2016, 01:38:34 AM »

im just happy that there is some more interest in film, specially instant.

Late Developer · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2016, 08:55:06 AM »

I'm up for one of these. At 279 Euros (+ film), I don't imagine there'll be a Noctilux (or even a Summicron) attached to the front of it but I don't see Leica putting its name to something that won't be at least "good".

And that's another thought - is it Leica that is actually making this gear or is it re-branded Fuj? I don't, for one moment, believe that Leica has started making instant film but they may have collaborated with Fuji to produce something Leica-branded and to a specification.

I might have to wander down to the Leica store in the City a bit nearer the time they become available.

AJShepherd · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2016, 03:51:47 PM »

It's hard not to be reminded of the time Hasselblad decided to 'bling up' last year's model of some Sony digital cameras, with a new paint job, fancier buttons, a wooden grip and a big letter 'H'. Wondering if this will damage Leica's image in the same way.

Would kind of imagine a similar situation to the Leica branding on the Huawei P9's dual-lens camera, where it turned out Leica had merely 'certified' it (and trousered a handy royalty, no doubt) and not had anything to do with the design.

Late Developer · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2016, 04:23:28 PM »

Well, the Panasonic LX series didn't do any harm to the Leica Dlux model sales. Most Mazdas share a large number of components with Ford models and VWs are, essentially, Skodas (or is it the other way round?

I know what you mean but I think the "Sofort" is such a unique product in the Leica range that it's vey unlikely to cause any issues. If Leica and Fuji have done their homework, all that side of things should have been taken care of as part of the product development pre-launch marketing process.

hookstrapped · « **Reply #11 on:** September 14, 2016, 04:56:32 PM »

I'm much more interested in the Mint TLR instax

gsgary · « **Reply #12 on:** September 14, 2016, 06:32:42 PM »

The Chinese will buy them by the container load

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

Francois · « **Reply #13 on:** September 14, 2016, 09:29:51 PM »

One thing I could never figure out is why Fuji never put good lenses in the instax?
It's not that they aren't capable of producing superb optics. It's not that there aren't any lens designs that cover such a surface that are available royalty free.
Heck, I often think that an old Petzval would be better than some of the plastic they put on those cameras...

But still, I bough more than one and love them... if only they could have better controls!

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2016, 10:59:26 AM »

I'm with Francois; I never understood why Fuji didn't make a better Instax Wide camera. I don't understand why they don't seem to be planning one now either.

Also, following on from hookstapped's comment about the Mint TLR Instax, I went and had a look: https://mint-camera.com/tl70/ A very interesting web site with some fascinating products. The TLR does look great....I just wish they had gone for the Wide format rather than the Mini. I guess that going with the Wide film would have resulted in a significantly larger camera?

Late Developer · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2016, 11:07:19 AM »

Quote from: Ed Wenn on September 15, 2016, 10:59:26 AM

I'm with Francois; I never understood why Fuji didn't make a better Instax Wide camera. I don't understand why they don't seem to be planning one now either.

Might the increased cost of doing so tip the balance in terms of sales / profit? For most people, particularly with relatively lo-fi products, good enough is good enough....

Maybe doing what Holga does and offering an upgraded glass option as well as the ~~boiled sweet~~ plastic option would be the way to go...?

clagom · « **Reply #16 on:** September 15, 2016, 02:08:12 PM »

I think there is the market for a proper manual instax wide camera with a good lens on it. Of course, not as big as the pop-mini market, but there is. Leica could have covered that segment, but again they went with always the same concept, which is well covered already by Fuji. Just Lomography tried something different with Instax...

EDIT, the official website: sofort.leica-camera.com

AJShepherd · « **Reply #17 on:** September 15, 2016, 03:01:37 PM »

Augh! I know I was mocking this a bit earlier but that doesn't shut up the little voice in the back of my head whispering "Want... want... want...".

But the video clip on the website is hipster central!

Francois · « **Reply #18 on:** September 15, 2016, 04:00:53 PM »

I looked at the video and there's something that bothers me.
The Leica Hektor lens has the exact same aperture as the Mini 8...

Bryan · « **Reply #19 on:** September 15, 2016, 04:32:15 PM »

What is that window in the center above the lens? The Instax 90 has a power switch in that spot so it must serve some purpose that the 90 doesn't have.

AJShepherd · « **Reply #20 on:** September 15, 2016, 05:05:52 PM »

That's no window, that's the 'Selfie Mirror'.

Bryan · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2016, 06:14:06 PM »

Quote from: AJShepherd on September 15, 2016, 05:05:52 PM

That's no window, that's the 'Selfie Mirror'.

I guess that's important these days

rotarysmp · « **Reply #22 on:** September 15, 2016, 08:28:09 PM »

I put a mamiya TLR 105/3.5 on Polaroid 100. Cheap polaroid 180. It is really nice. Still don't understand why Lomo or someone hasn't put a manual aperture and shutter in front of Instax wide. Leicas idea of Manual control on the sofort is a bad joke.
Mark

Francois · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2016, 08:30:20 PM »

I guess they put bright lines in the viewfinder. Light goes in through that window which has both a diffuser and a line mask. 45° mirror and a sheet of plate glass at 45 in the finder. That's all there is to it...

Faintandfuzzy · « **Reply #24 on:** September 16, 2016, 03:46:59 AM »

Despite how some people feel...I am still stoked aboit having anything that increases film sales.

Late Developer · « **Reply #25 on:** September 16, 2016, 08:44:42 AM »

Quote from: Faintandfuzzy on September 16, 2016, 03:46:59 AM

Despite how some people feel...I am still stoked aboit having anything that increases film sales.

Agreed. It's never going to appeal to everyone but, if it brings more people into the film using community and helps promote and prolong film use, it can't be a bad thing.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #26 on:** September 16, 2016, 10:31:29 AM »

Quote from: Late Developer on September 15, 2016, 11:07:19 AM

Maybe doing what Holga ~~does~~ did and offering an upgraded glass option as well as the ~~boiled sweet~~ plastic option would be the way to go...?

there, I fixed that for you (with a tear in my eye)

rotarysmp · « **Reply #27 on:** September 16, 2016, 02:47:35 PM »

NPC sold their Parts bin NPC 185 for a fairly steep price in competition to the old Polaroid 180, and 190's that were then available.

I am surprised that no one has taken a pot shot at a Instax Polaroid 190. Sure limited market, but development wouldn't cost squat.

Late Developer · « **Reply #28 on:** December 01, 2016, 02:57:42 PM »

Lara and I were at the Leica store in the City last evening to attend a talk / exhibition by a chap who's done a load of back-stage photography in a selection of theatres. Very nice work - albeit that it's d*g*t*l. Anyway, the poor chap came down with some bug and the talk was cancelled last minute.

While we were in the shop, Lara noticed they had a cabinet full of "Sofort" and asked to have a look at one. They are actually much nicer to hold than I imagined they'd be and the photos that had been taken using the display model were excellent - really sharp and punchy colours.

So, guess who's been given a "Mint" coloured Sofort as a Christmas pressie.........!!

clagom · « **Reply #29 on:** December 01, 2016, 06:54:57 PM »

I would like a direct comparison between the Sofort and the Mini 90. Anyway yes, I also had the chance to use a Sofort, and it's quite nice.

Francois · « **Reply #30 on:** December 01, 2016, 08:58:23 PM »

Somehow I'm not surprised that the lens is sharp.
As I once read in a Leica Magazine: Is one allowed to take out of focus photos with a Leica?
Personally, I would have been very disappointed if the lens on the Sofort had been as soft as on my Mini8

Late Developer · « **Reply #31 on:** December 01, 2016, 09:16:33 PM »

Quote from: clagom on December 01, 2016, 06:54:57 PM

I would like a direct comparison between the Sofort and the Mini 90. Anyway yes, I also had the chance to use a Sofort, and it's quite nice.

I wouldn't mind a direct comparison but I only have the one. The lens definitely says Leica Hektor but my guess is that the rest of the camera is re-packaged Fuji.

Late Developer · « **Reply #32 on:** December 01, 2016, 09:17:32 PM »

Quote from: Francois on December 01, 2016, 08:58:23 PM

Somehow I'm not surprised that the lens is sharp.
As I once read in a Leica Magazine: Is one allowed to take out of focus photos with a Leica?
Personally, I would have been very disappointed if the lens on the Sofort had been as soft as on my Mini8

I do it all the time! Poor eyesight is my excuse. Still, when I get it right, the optics are very good.

astrobeck · « **Reply #33 on:** December 02, 2016, 07:51:45 PM »

this thread has been a VERY intriguing read...
I am eager to see results from the camera, which looks kinda cool, but kind of too hip for my taste... at least for now.
Also, I need to purge cameras, not acquire more, but that is hardly an exclusive distress here.

I am more anxious to see the square format camera and instax film that is coming out next year....

As has been mentioned, I'm all for anything that promotes more film use.

AJShepherd · « **Reply #34 on:** December 02, 2016, 10:53:05 PM »

Have to admit, if there's a genuine difference other than in body shape, I'd be interested, as while i think the Sofort looks nicer than any of the Instaxes, and if the results are better than that might swing me. Or maybe I'll wait for the square Instax next year.

Late Developer · « **Reply #35 on:** December 02, 2016, 11:08:02 PM »

Please bear in mind that the Sofort is a Christmas present from my wife. If I'd asked for a Fuji, I doubt I'd have got one. The fact it's a Leica adds a certain "something" in her eyes and whether the camera is a rebadged Fuji doesn't count for anything whatsoever. My guess is that the Sofort is identical other than for the lens. The film is probably also identical other than for the "ivory" backing compared to the Fuji's pure white.

Forgive me if I don't try to be too objective on this subject as I'm not about to try to prove that my wife has just paid over the odds for a present with a luxury goods badge...

Harvey · « **Reply #36 on:** December 03, 2016, 08:47:31 AM »

I'm with Mrs LD on this one. I think that Leica are realising the potential of the instant system. I doubt the majority of instax users will be weighing up the pros and cons of Fuji v Leica but what I am hoping is that it brings instant to a new group of users who wouldn't have considered instax before the Sofort, many of whom will be confirmed Leicaphiles, and seeing just what they can produce with it. No pressure LD! It will be interesting to see whether they develop a new style in their photography as some photographers are wont to do with different equipment.

Francois · « **Reply #37 on:** December 03, 2016, 02:08:11 PM »

On the Instax front, there's not too many manufacturers. If I were to put them in a ring in a fujifilm vs. lomography vs. leica match, I'd safely put all my bets on leica when it comes to build quality and optical quality, not to mention style and amount of control the camera gives.

Late Developer · « **Reply #38 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:21:50 PM »

Okay - here goes.....

Lara and I went to London today for a last shopping and exhibition viewing foray before Christmas. We work there, of course, but we pick and choose our moments to spend our leisure time there as it's 55 miles each way on the train and it is mobbed at this time of year. However, promise of relatively mild and sunny weather tipped the balance. I took my new Leica Sofort with me.

I haven't done a specification comparison against the Instax Mini but I doubt there'll be much, if anything in it on that front. The lens is different (from what the Leica shop sales-person told us) but that, I suspect, is about it in terms of differences. The following are shots from my first batch of film but I must admit that I'm not 100% sure I was using the correct modes or that I was always using the optimum focusing (it's possible to switch between closer and further away - that's about it). Only one shots was taken using flash - the Masks. Aside from scanning on the flatbed and cropping, negligible changes have been made.

Let me know what you think.

Harvey · « **Reply #39 on:** December 03, 2016, 09:58:43 PM »

So not only do you get a camera for Christmas, you're allowed to open it 3 weeks early!
Thanks for posting these, the St Pauls one with autumnal tree is just lovely. I'm interested to know whether you went looking for pictures that you felt would particularly suit the film/camera or whether you just used the camera you had to shoot what you would have done anyway.

Late Developer · « **Reply #40 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:10:02 PM »

Quote from: Harvey on December 03, 2016, 09:58:43 PM

So not only do you get a camera for Christmas, you're allowed to open it 3 weeks early!
Thanks for posting these, the St Pauls one with autumnal tree is just lovely. I'm interested to know whether you went looking for pictures that you felt would particularly suit the film/camera or whether you just used the camera you had to shoot what you would have done anyway.

Hi Harvey. Yes indeed - being an atheist has many advantages....!

The only conscious decision I made was to look for a variety of high and low(er) contract subjects and take at least one shot using macro mode and flash. Not very scientific and I don't think I've got the best scans I possibly could have. However, the Instax Mini format means the actual photos are much smaller than shown on screen and, therefore, "look" a lot sharper than the scans. Nevertheless, I wasn't under any delusions that the Sofort would be competing with medium format or anything like that. I'm VERY happy with the results and feel incredibly lucky to have an instant camera again.

AJShepherd · « **Reply #41 on:** December 03, 2016, 10:42:40 PM »

Nice shots. Particularly like the bus and the skulls, those look very nice.
Grr argh I'm going to end up buying one of these aren't I? Well that'll be my Christmas present to myself!

John Robison · « **Reply #42 on:** December 04, 2016, 06:10:42 PM »

A f12.7 lens!? Really? Before I'd spend $300 on this thing I'd get a Instax Wide back for a Graflok 23. That Mercury Kickstarter has them for $230 and I backed the 6X9 kit and already have a Kodak 101mm f4.5 Anastar lens that I'm going to use on the kit. Total cost will be more but you would have a lens 3 stops faster (and at least as good as the leica lens) and full manual control. Now if only Fuji would make B&W in the Instax Wide format.

Francois · « **Reply #43 on:** December 04, 2016, 08:37:59 PM »

Quote from: John Robison on December 04, 2016, 06:10:42 PM

Now if only Fuji would make B&W in the Instax Wide format.

I tried the mini version and I'm not sure you'd really want it. I have to say I've seen many bad films but I don't think I've ever seen anything like this.
The monochrome film is not really a B&W film. It's more of an extreme low saturation color film. Different parts of the image get different color casts depending on their original color. And scanning the film seems to just make things worse. So far, the only way I found to make the film look good is to strip the frame to avoid weird edge lighting and scan the whole thing as grayscale... If I'm going to have to do all this, I might as well shoot the good color stuff and just strip the color once it's in the computer.

Late Developer · « **Reply #44 on:** December 04, 2016, 11:28:33 PM »

Quote from: John Robison on December 04, 2016, 06:10:42 PM

A f12.7 lens!? Really? Before I'd spend $300 on this thing I'd get a Instax Wide back for a Graflok 23. That Mercury Kickstarter has them for $230 and I backed the 6X9 kit and already have a Kodak 101mm f4.5 Anastar lens that I'm going to use on the kit. Total cost will be more but you would have a lens 3 stops faster (and at least as good as the leica lens) and full manual control. Now if only Fuji would make B&W in the Instax Wide format.

John, in a similar position, I'd probably agree. However, I have a 5x4 with options to use 5x4 (including New Type 55), and 6x9 and 6x12 backs. This was pure indulgence on my wife's part and I have always wanted to get back into instant without having to pay over £300 for a reconditioned SX-70 now that TiP seems to be a bit more reliable. The Fuji / Sofort "mini" film is really nice and, at the end of the day, you pay your money and take your chances. There is no "right or wrong" when it comes to this sort of thing.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #45 on:** December 04, 2016, 11:44:39 PM »

Paul, thanks very much for the updates to what was already an interesting thread....and then for posting the photos too.

astrobeck · « **Reply #46 on:** December 05, 2016, 12:57:20 AM »

"There is no right or wrong" well said Paul!

Enjoy your camera, and please share more photos as they happen.
I'm more interested now.

John Robison · « **Reply #47 on:** December 05, 2016, 06:57:14 AM »

I have a mental barrier to fully auto exposure cameras. A longtime fan of the OM-1 and or any MMM camera (Metal-Mechanical-Manual). Can't even quite warm to battery dependent cameras. There is no logic in this position, people are making great pictures with these 'inferior' cameras all the time, it's just a problem with me. I'm the type that would have only been happy with a Polaroid 180 or 195, none of the other ones would do. The closest I can come to 'instant prints' now is to shoot B&W paper in 4X5 and contact print. If I'm not too far from home, I can have a finished print in one or two hours.

Late Developer · « **Reply #48 on:** December 05, 2016, 09:09:28 AM »

Quote from: John Robison on December 05, 2016, 06:57:14 AM

I have a mental barrier to fully auto exposure cameras. A longtime fan of the OM-1 and or any MMM camera (Metal-Mechanical-Manual). Can't even quite warm to battery dependent cameras. There is no logic in this position, people are making great pictures with these 'inferior' cameras all the time, it's just a problem with me. I'm the type that would have only been happy with a Polaroid 180 or 195, none of the other ones would do. The closest I can come to 'instant prints' now is to shoot B&W paper in 4X5 and contact print. If I'm not too far from home, I can have a finished print in one or two hours.

I can't say I'm a great fan of auto-everything myself. However, I have a mix of fully manual / no batteries required to fully automated / batteries essential. I suppose I'm a pragmatist as, once I get to know and trust a camera's metering, I take the view of "why have a dog and bark yourself"? Lazy, I suppose, but that's what I like about the photographic process - i.e. the fact that we can get to our individual goals by a variety of routes.

zapsnaps · « **Reply #49 on:** December 05, 2016, 11:27:44 AM »

Late: I have an Instax neo 90. The next time FW meet up for drinkies, I'll bring it along & perhaps you would bring your Sofort and we can have a shoot-off and see if there is any appreciable difference. I'm sorta hoping that you will win - as that will give me an excuse to 'swap' the Fuji for a Leica (I never seem to swap in actual fact). I've yet to see one in the flesh, but I've been thinking of getting one and this would be an interesting challenge (and a perfect excuse for another camera, should you win).

[whispering]... and I thought the wide Blad Lara bought you was for your birthday & Xmas present. Or was that lost in the roundings?