Author Topic: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner  (Read 4895 times)

Ed Wenn

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Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« on: April 06, 2016, 09:39:52 PM »
Hi team, I need some help. A friend has developed (see what I did there?) an urge to scan a ton of old negs, but doesn't have any experience whatsoever with scanning. I said I'd ask The FW Hive Mind (TM) for their recommendations regarding 35mm neg scanners. Think ease-of-use and speed over uber quality and geeky concerns about pixel counts etc.

I've had a succession of flatbeds and ain't going to change anytime soon, so I have no real input, but I know some of you will have a view on this.

Thanks in advance  :) :)

p.s.
UK based.

p.p.s.
If anyone in the UK has sent hundreds of negs off to a lab for scanning onto DVDs and had a good experience then that's also something I'd be keen to hear about.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 09:41:35 PM by Ed Wenn »

jharr

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2016, 09:53:56 PM »
I have a friend who recently picked up a Pakon F135 scanner. He said setup was pretty easy and operation is a breeze. It isn't high res, but perfect for storing and sharing online. He is even running the software on Parallels on a Mac.
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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2016, 09:59:11 PM »
Ed, getting negs scanned commercially (aside from at the point the film is processed) can be very expensive.  Obviously, a lot will depend on the scan quality and whether the scan would include de-dusting, colour correction, etc.  I think Snappy Snaps might do it (don't quote me on that, though).

That said, it's probably easier and cheaper in the long run to buy an Epson 500 or similar and learn how to do the scanning.  once completed, if the scanner is no longer of use, it could probably be sold for half the cost of purchase.
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Francois

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2016, 10:30:54 PM »
I know the Pakon F135 is pretty much the fastest around and has a good level of automation. But it really all depends on the budget.
I know the German company Reflecta has a pretty good selection of models.

The problem with scanning a lot of pictures is always time.
For bulk scanning at a resolution of 5 megapixels, I actually use this thing.
It's not great. It has auto white balance, auto exposure. You advance the film by hand and you press the OK button twice to save the photo to a SD card. Then you put the device in USB mode and you just import the files like from any digicam. It's basically a foolproof device made for people who don't know much about photography. It saves the images as JPG and can basically run as fast as you can shove the film in and press the button.

It's definitely not as nice as anything I've ever had. It's not a high quality thing. But if the goal is just to be able to recognize uncle Fred who had a drink too many at aunt Olivia's wedding and threw-up in the punch bowl, it's going to work just fine.  :o

It also works fine for web presentation and making index prints like I do. Most of the pictures I post here now come from this thing.

But for nice colors, not much can beat the Pakon...
Francois

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Ed Wenn

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2016, 10:35:14 PM »
Hi guys, thanks for the suggestions so far. I think Francois might be onto something...as you say, it's all about the budget, but if that contraption is as fast as you say then we may have a winner. I'll pass this along.

Francois

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2016, 10:37:01 PM »
I just got thinking about something else: the Lomoscanner.

I don't have the device (which is similar in many ways to my scanner) but have tried their android software... I must say it's very nice and free.
Francois

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Ed Wenn

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2016, 10:47:23 PM »
OK, I'll take a look at that too. Thanks. In the meantime what the heck is that it. thing of yours? You didn't say which make and model and Google hasn't been very helpful, despite me trying to feed it the right line  ;)

+"it." 35mm scanner sd card -ion

Francois

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2016, 11:03:00 PM »
I know the thing was made in china and distributed by Innovative Technology of Port Washington, NY.
The model is a ITNS-301.
I know they replaced it by a model with a top mounted LCD. They also have one that scans also 4x6 prints.
These sell new for about 100$ when on sale at the office supply store (staples).

Personally, I tried a model prior to getting this one and it was awful. The one I tried had no LCD and just gave nasty colors.
Then, I found this one at a local charity shop for something like 5$, so I gave it a go and to my surprise I think I got a good one.
I found that whatever color it scans wrong I can fix in picasa, so not a problem there.

The only thing I find annoying is the total lack of control. I would have liked a bit more as it can be an absolute pain when you need to stitch multiple images together. Also, you can't set the date on the machine so everything is shot on the same day in the EXIF. It also resets the numbering everytime you disconnect the machine. At least it won't overwrite anything. To fix that I made a huge (OK, I should say overengineered) DOS script that uses EXIV2 to change the metadata and at least make it somewhat coherent.

What I like is that it needs absolutely no software to run and comes with a mains to usb adapter so you can use it anywhere.

On the other hand, the Lomography scanner might be a bit better as you use your smartphone. It seems to make a decent job and can possibly have a higher resolution. But it's dependent on the phone so it's both a win and a lose... I remember their interface is very easy to navigate.
Francois

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2016, 11:14:38 PM »
I just did a bit more research and the device is made by a company called EU3C.
The model is a Filmscan 35mm
The camera ID is... My Beautiful Picture
Cute isn't it?

I think they make the one for ION and a bunch of other companies
Francois

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charles binns

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2016, 11:19:29 PM »
I use an Epson V750.  Very happy with it.

Aksel

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2016, 11:23:16 PM »
Just a thought from me here, a flat bed can be loaded with 24 images at the time - hit the button and it will run the frames automatically.
Even if it´s not the fastest it gives you the opportunity to do other stuff while it´s working. Buying a V700 used and re selling it after the job should be virtually free, given you don´t drop it down the stairs. You "just" need the money to get one and get started ;)
Also, many of us using this things would give away the standard film holders for free - load a few of them with film and your sawing on the down time as well.
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Ed Wenn

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2016, 12:48:54 AM »
Aksel: Take your point, but I can't see my buddy wanting a flatbed cluttering up his desk. A dedicated neg scanner takes up less space.

Francois: Thanks for all the info. I know the guy has a reasonably new Android phone, so the Lomography thing might be a good way forward. I'll pass all this info onto him.

clagom

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2016, 09:55:44 AM »
You could also think to use a digital camera (also crop sensor or micro 4/3) with a macro lens or extension tube and a mobile as light source (or a LED one, quite cheap).
And it's quite fast once you setup everything and automise a bit the process in Lightroom/Photoshop.


Hi team, I need some help. A friend has developed (see what I did there?) an urge to scan a ton of old negs, but doesn't have any experience whatsoever with scanning. I said I'd ask The FW Hive Mind (TM) for their recommendations regarding 35mm neg scanners. Think ease-of-use and speed over uber quality and geeky concerns about pixel counts etc.

I've had a succession of flatbeds and ain't going to change anytime soon, so I have no real input, but I know some of you will have a view on this.

Thanks in advance  :) :)

p.s.
UK based.

p.p.s.
If anyone in the UK has sent hundreds of negs off to a lab for scanning onto DVDs and had a good experience then that's also something I'd be keen to hear about.

Domingo A. Siliceo

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2016, 12:26:31 PM »
You could also think to use a digital camera (also crop sensor or micro 4/3) with a macro lens or extension tube and a mobile as light source (or a LED one, quite cheap).
And it's quite fast once you setup everything and automise a bit the process in Lightroom/Photoshop.

my set up to digitize my negatives is a Samsung NX100 camera plus bellows plus an EL-Nikkor lens. I use a 15 watt Chinese LED lamp as the light source. But to me this system is maddening, too slow and prone to error if you pretend to work with more than, say, 10/15 negatives.

IMHO, as Francois said, the Pakon is the best solution.

clagom

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2016, 12:53:57 PM »
I think it depends on the setup and on how fast you are in post production, but of course also on the result you want to get. I find it quite fast, this is my setup and process:
https://medium.com/@gomboli/leica-beoon-16511-34f3125c52d0

my set up to digitize my negatives is a Samsung NX100 camera plus bellows plus an EL-Nikkor lens. I use a 15 watt Chinese LED lamp as the light source. But to me this system is maddening, too slow and prone to error if you pretend to work with more than, say, 10/15 negatives.

IMHO, as Francois said, the Pakon is the best solution.

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2016, 01:04:50 PM »
Aksel: Take your point, but I can't see my buddy wanting a flatbed cluttering up his desk. A dedicated neg scanner takes up less space.

Ed, I have a limited amount of space in my humble abode but I have, and use, a V750 and, when not in use, I stash papers and stuff on top of it.  You can't do that with many dedicated neg scanners and the flatbed also doubles as a photocopier and document / photo scanner.  They're not all space wasters.
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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2016, 10:16:56 PM »
You could also think to use a digital camera (also crop sensor or micro 4/3) with a macro lens or extension tube and a mobile as light source (or a LED one, quite cheap).
And it's quite fast once you setup everything and automise a bit the process in Lightroom/Photoshop.

my set up to digitize my negatives is a Samsung NX100 camera plus bellows plus an EL-Nikkor lens. I use a 15 watt Chinese LED lamp as the light source. But to me this system is maddening, too slow and prone to error if you pretend to work with more than, say, 10/15 negatives.

IMHO, as Francois said, the Pakon is the best solution.

I use a similar method and you can get fairly fast at it once you have everything set up.  I use an Olympus OM-D E-M5 with the 12-50mm kit lens on the macro setting.  I used my iPad Mini as a light table with a piece of translucent white plastic to diffuse the screens pixels.  You can placed a piece of glass over the negative to get it flat but I have found that a negative holder works best so that you don't get newton rings from the glass.  I don't use bellows but I do it in a dark room and make sure that any stray light is masked off.  You can get reflections back onto the lens that will show up in the image.  Some old negative holders from enlargers work great, they can easily be found on ebay.  Right now I use a tripod for the camera but I would like to get a good copy stand.

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2016, 10:55:30 PM »
You could use the copying setup only use a film camera with fine grain negative film to create slides. Then get a nice glass bead screen and projector and enjoy!  8)
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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2016, 01:39:53 AM »
You could use the copying setup only use a film camera with fine grain negative film to create slides. Then get a nice glass bead screen and projector and enjoy!  8)

That is the best way to view slides!

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2016, 12:04:58 PM »
Aksel: Take your point, but I can't see my buddy wanting a flatbed cluttering up his desk. A dedicated neg scanner takes up less space.

Ed, I have a limited amount of space in my humble abode but I have, and use, a V750 and, when not in use, I stash papers and stuff on top of it.  You can't do that with many dedicated neg scanners and the flatbed also doubles as a photocopier and document / photo scanner.  They're not all space wasters.


I use mine to collect cat hairs when not in use.  And due to its slightly curved lid, its perfect for watching things I placed on top if it, slide off.


Mike (happyforest)

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2016, 08:04:30 PM »
How about this:


http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/userfiles/file/slide_copying_technique.pdf

I had one to dupe slides and recall it would take strips of film as well as mounted slides.

Mike

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2016, 02:49:00 AM »
VERY useful information, especially that from Fraoncois.  35mm is nice.  I would like to use something that saved images, even on 120 film or larger.  Especially for those that have the means to develop, but no longer have a darkroom for printing.
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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2016, 05:11:04 AM »
I doubt I'd be shooting 35mm if it weren't for my Pakon F135+. I've since upgraded to an F335, but I still keep the F135 around as a backup because I'm paranoid.

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2016, 01:37:31 PM »
VERY useful information, especially that from Fraoncois.  35mm is nice.  I would like to use something that saved images, even on 120 film or larger.  Especially for those that have the means to develop, but no longer have a darkroom for printing.
I must admit that you have to look a bit harder for a scanner that handles 120. In that format, for an affordable option, there's pretty much only Epson on the list. There are dedicated film scanners but you have to be prepared to open your wallet.
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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2016, 04:21:47 PM »
Francois, the scanner you have there does not really scan, but its designed more like a digital camera capture device. Some work better than others.
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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2016, 09:47:10 PM »
I know, but it does work.
What I usually do is use it for quick scans and then do nice scans with my Epson. It saves the good scanner and a lot of time.

Strangely, I often think that those companies who produce cheap devices have some creative solutions that expensive gear doesn't. Like in those old days of parallel port scanners vs. SCSI. All the expensive SCSI scanners had a white backplate which somehow made the scanning location detection iffy at best and scanning a single page a nightmare because the light would go through the paper, reflect on the back and be recorded by the scanner. On the other hand, my uber-cheap scanner actually used a black backing plate which cost the manufacturer nothing to produce, made edge detection a cinch and made scanning documents equally easy. And since they were dealing with a slow interface, they actually had a custom chip in the scanner that would jpeg compress the data to move it faster. Cheap easy and smart. I actually used that thing for a long time. They even had a way to increase the resolution by doing some type of in motion and overlay capture. Smart.

Same thing with my instant scanner. It's essentially a fixed focus camera that is set at just the right distance from the film to get a good picture. The lens they use has a small aperture so that most of the stuff where the film can be is in focus. Simple but efficient. The backlight is a simple LED thing. Now just imagine if Nikon produced a similar device with a high end small sensor like the one on the N1 series, a good LCD, a system that would alternate between visible light and IR backlight for dust detection, possibility to adjust exposure and color calibration, raw mode capability, all in one box that saves on an SD card... I'd be the first in line to buy one and since it's still a quite simple device, it probably wouldn't cost more than a couple hundred bucks...
Francois

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2016, 10:05:31 AM »
VERY useful information, especially that from Fraoncois.  35mm is nice.  I would like to use something that saved images, even on 120 film or larger.  Especially for those that have the means to develop, but no longer have a darkroom for printing.
I must admit that you have to look a bit harder for a scanner that handles 120. In that format, for an affordable option, there's pretty much only Epson on the list. There are dedicated film scanners but you have to be prepared to open your wallet.
Secondhand V500, I've got  one and the results are very good

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2016, 05:12:09 AM »
Francois, thats similar to what i used to do all day long. Use a graphic camera to take photos on sheet film of camera ready art (paper). Develop, make printing plates ;D
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Francois

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Re: Recommendation: Easy-To-Use Neg Scanner
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2016, 02:02:40 PM »
Did you use the big walk-in cameras some printers have?
Francois

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