Topic: Using film for "professional" work? (weddings, events, etc...)

[Tammy]

I am wondering if anyone using COLOR  film for professional work (weddings, events, commissioned portraits, sports) can explain how they manage the work-flow?

More specifically, when you use a lab, how do you present the lab with crops, and requests for color corrections?

I do not do professional work, though I sometimes get asked to do things like events, have done one wedding, and a few other things for people I know.  I would like to continue to do this, but I have always had a hard time with the local lab being consistent with color and it becomes a real pain and causes me a lot of grief.

I do not wish to shoot film and then use an ink jet printer at home.  I just do not have the equipment to handle this sort of workflow.  I would like to continue to use a professional lab for the printing end of it.

Can anyone share current or past experiences with me? 

Tammy

[david b]

Sadly I think it's becoming much harder to find labs that will do this sort of thing. I still use film whenever possible for work, but I don't have any option but to scan and print myself. Even getting colour film developed means sending it away to a fairly distant pro lab as all the local places have closed, become unreliable, or increased prices considerably.

[Tammy]

Perhaps you are right, David.   



ah well.  That statement makes me think, "such a pity".   I will have to continue to work my own way around the developing/printing issues.

[Skorj]

Based on the small amount of irregular paid work I do, I use the following for developing (not printing):

1) Pro-lab for E-6 and C-41 processing. They take direct instructions about processing (push/pull etc), and otherwise take the time to get consistent results. The only thing they sent out for was some K-14. I have a few in my area luckily. The expensive option.

2) Local `Color Lab`. Fuji-equipped with one of those big C-41 machines, but they know how to use it (unlike the local corner shop version). These nice folks while only developing straight C-41 on-site, also do an integral scan to CD in the machine and after being asked, will not adjust or color balance. This gives me a consistent result (as I use the same place), and allows me to post process any push, pull, balance issues myself on the PC (gasp!).

A third option a friend who shoots weddings uses, is direct color processing. She has a low volume color lab, and knows how to use it to give her the 100% control over the results she desires.

Regardless of developing source, I always have to spend time with the scanning and / or balancing of the final submissions to obtain a consistent feel to the results. This is something I think you cannot avoid, and a step that allows you to add the extra level of control & result.

My submissions are generally electronic, and printing for weddings of course adds another level of complexity. Like my friend mentioned above though, she does this herself too. With your need for prints too, the above is only the first step in your story.

Not really a full answer sorry.

[david b]

I'm sorry to be so downbeat about it ... hopefully the mighty Skorj will return with happier ideas!

[db]

I don't know where you live, and what labs you can choose from, but I'd put labs in three groups.

1/ Hole in the wall shop-front with a large processing-printing machine out back that does C-41 only. Usually staffed by young people with as much training and career path as drive-thru attendants at McDonalds. These rapidly being replaced by digital DIY kiosks with even less customer support.

2/ Fred's camera shop in the local shopping center which may have their own machine + the digital thingys, but they may also be an agency for a bigger specialist lab who collects the work from Fred once or twice a day and processes and prints back at their dedicated professional premises downtown. Likely to be staffed by career printers with much more skill and manual controls for special orders. And Fred himself is likely to know more than  how to press the big button on the left, so he (could) answer your questions and mark the job with your instructions.

3/ A pro lab. The one all the professionals in the region use. Staffed by experts (hopefully) who will take the time to talk you through it (OK- I dream) They will do C41, E-6 as well as digital printing, colour correct, offer test prints, show you how to mark up re-do's etc. 

A lab like this is worth finding. They haven't died out- just they were never that common in the first place. ie. one or two in each big city rather than on each street corner. Look under the pro listings in the phone book, or ring a pro shooter and ask where to go. Expect to pay 30-40% more than at a cheap place. But you get the right result and you 'll pass on those costs to your client anyway. If there is not a pro lab in your area, most will be used to accepting/delivering work by mail and talking with you by phone and email for instructions.

PS- or contact the state Fuji or Kodak representatives. They supply chem and papers to the pro labs and will be able to give you names for the nearest pro service..

[Tammy]

Let's assume I am working with db's number 3.  I wouldn't expect 1 or 2 to be able to accomodate to the same level. 

I'm interested in finding a good number 3 pro lab and also in developing a good workflow with the folks at the desk, or by email, phone.  So, I appreciate that tip, don.

But I would also like some ideas of how other folks manage this- particularly in color corrects, and crops, etc.  Should I expect color 10pts close to  neutral right off the bat from a pro lab,  or do I need to be specific?   I assume that I will be talking to a desk clerk taking orders, answering phones, or do other people get right in there with the person making the prints?

[lauraburlton]

I have switched to digital for professional stuff. BUT I know that Millers Lab still does film and optical printing. Thats who we use with our digital stuff. Just try googleing them.

[db]

But I would also like some ideas of how other folks manage this- particularly in color corrects, and crops, etc.  Should I expect color 10pts close to  neutral right off the bat from a pro lab,  or do I need to be specific?   I assume that I will be talking to a desk clerk taking orders, answering phones, or do other people get right in there with the person making the prints?

Are you shooting neg or tran?
If tran , then a good E-6 lab will be certified by either of the big film/chem manufacturers so there should almost zero colour/density shift from lab to lab.

If neg, you could shoot a frame on each roll with either an 18% gray card, a McBeth Color card, or I think Kodak make a colour swatch too. Then the lab can can sample that negative to zero in on your colour/exposure and get pretty close first time.

I reckon nothing beats a personal relationship. Talk to them lots, make jokes, ask about their mother... make them remember you. Once it's personal you have a better chance of good service rather than you being simply another client #. If that succeeds, you have a shot at asking the clerk (who should be fairly expert themselves) if you can chat to the operator doing your job about a particular problem. Don't pretend to know everything- they hate that-  and don't be afraid to ask ask ask.

Each lab has a different way of handling cropping, or special orders, so it's hard to be specific there. For a hero shot, it's good to order a straight print first, then get out your sharpie and draw the cropping, dodging/burning instructions all over it.

goodluck

[Tammy]

I suppose I am mostly addressing C41, and I find it most difficult because I have not got a good reference point where as with E-6 there is the slide to match to.

Laura, I have used MPIX before, a branch of Miller's I think?  I would need an ID to use Millers and don't have one.   I will look into that further though. 

thanks Skorj for your input as well.  It's  hard to address the entire situation, I know.  Print consistency can be so difficult.

Don, I thought about a grey card just the other day, and I don't know why I hadn't thought of it before!   I was mulling over my questions and it occured to me that a card as such, included into the shots, was really something that would help SO much.   I don't have one that is very big, so I will look into getting one that the subject can hold for one shot/roll.

Thank you for the tips.  Should help me get someplace good for my next project.

-Tammy

[lauraburlton]

I have not used MPIX but I know you have to set up an account to use Millers but I am not sure of the process as we already have one at work. However there is a girl at school who uses them, and although she is a fine art photographer, I dont think she is technically a pro- but then again she might have a dba or something. But you can get those at the courthouse for about $20 or so last I checked.