Author Topic: Fuji Doing What it Can to Kill Film (Read 4566 times)

jharr · « **on:** January 22, 2016, 02:51:38 PM »

Fujifilm announced “substantial” worldwide price increase of photographic film

John Robison · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2016, 03:56:23 PM »

Sounds like a 'death spiral'. As prices go up so people buy less, it costs more per unit to make less, so prices go up again, causing more people to drop film,............
Finally a low volume of production becomes not viable at any price and suddenly......everyone left are coating glass plates. That last part is a bit over the top but not by much I fear.

SLVR · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2016, 04:12:56 PM »

aaaand this is why I don't shoot fuji products often/anymore.

I predicted this the last price hike. I didn't know how detrimental of a price hike it was until I went to buy a roll of provia. 1 roll of 36 exp 35mm was $20. That doesn't include processing folks. This was around 2 years ago when the prices of film and the dollar wasn't terrible on BH so the equivalent american cost around $7 all said and done.

Since then E6 has pretty much died in toronto. One of the last pro labs processing the stuff (one day service, cost something like $6 a roll of 120 and $8 a roll of 35mmm) stopped doing it when reportedly kodak killed off their production of E6 chemistry for their machines.

Fuji says they are committed to film but it's clearly the opposite. I've pretty much abandoned them. They can have fun with their ~~sony~~ xtrans sensors...

Fun fact though - It's been reported that canadians have been in a recession in previous years. I never noticed any hit from it but now in the last 4 months I've started to really notice it as the prices of things skyrocket...

Late Developer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2016, 08:21:18 PM »

Not great news but I'm not convinced that it's the signal for the horsemen of the apocalypse to come riding over the horizon. I like Fuji film (especially 160 and 400 Pro print film) and fully intend to continue to buy it when I want it / while I can still afford it. Come to think of it, I want some Acros in 120......

Bryan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2016, 08:43:31 PM »

I count on Fuji for two films, only because they are the only one making them right now, FP-100C and Velvia 100. I just stocked up on a few rolls since the price hike hasn't taken effect. I would be disappointed to see FP-100C go away but it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. Hopefully Ferrania comes out with a good replacement for Velvia 100, I,m just concerned about the quality they produce. I use the Velvia exclusively for my View-Master camera and fine grain is very important for that.

Chalky · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2016, 08:54:50 PM »

man... it keeps going up...

I love acros and 100c... not sure if the instant stuff price is going up... either way bad news and agree its seems to lead to a vicious cycle of more price less sales... hope the increases arent stupid but I guess we'll see soon enough...

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2016, 08:59:18 PM »

I love Acros and Neopan, but I'd never use enough to keep them in business. You can't blame Fuji.

Francois · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2016, 09:55:58 PM »

I'm starting to believe that the only part of their business that they care about is the Instax line.
So far, Fuji has been increasingly hard to find around town. I still got a roll or two of Acros and I think a pack of FP-1000B that's now at about EI 500.

imagesfrugales · « **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2016, 01:03:30 AM »

Why did Kodak give up slide film? Not enough profit left for 2 companies or an agreement? Is Fujis confession for film real or is film only a cashcow? Realizing that slide film will be the first to die finally and squeezing out the very last bucks, devil-may-care? We don't know.

I stopped to buy Fujifilm film when they stopped producing Neopan 1600. Sad sad story. I was so pissed that I also didn't buy Acros anymore.

Not only a sad story but also a very difficult one. Remember the big companies lost more than 90 % of their sales within 10 years, Agfa and others went broke, Kodak still a shaky candidate? And even Adox lost an important coating partner (Harman/Ilford or Innoviscoat, who knows?) as stated by the Adox boss himself in his forum, so they have to swap the production (CHS100 II film at least and probably some other) to their little test coating machines which haven't produced any sold product so far.

We can't do anything, we're getting older and older an miss fresh blood. Lomo and Instant film seem to attract some younger people, will they rescue film? Who knows?

x100art · « **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2016, 02:47:56 AM »

I saw the increase in one of the film blogs I frequent on Facebook. I just can't understand it, if Fujifilm want to get out of the film business why not just close the door and walk out, why do they have to keep increasing the price and getting people pissed off? I can live without Fuji, I'm happy with ILFORD and Kentmere

I was thinking about it at work today would ILFORD ever get into the color film business C-41?

Francois · « **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2016, 02:08:26 PM »

I think we have a better chance of seeing Lucky stay on the C-41 bandwagon than Ilford going for it.

I feel business has changed a lot in the last decade. It used to be that companies had a few less popular products that they held on to because they were happy with the revenue that their popular products brought. The goal was to offer a good product selection all over the board to prevent competition from entering the market. A good example of this was the early Eastman Kodak. But now, all companies care about is heading cash cows. If a product is less popular, it gets dropped even before the customer can figure out it existed in the first place. They don't seem to care about the cost of setting-up production lines... Or maybe all their products are designed to use the same factories and the same workers with minimal training between runs?

charles binns · « **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2016, 02:15:20 PM »

Quote from: x100art on January 23, 2016, 02:47:56 AM

I saw the increase in one of the film blogs I frequent on Facebook. I just can't understand it, if Fujifilm want to get out of the film business why not just close the door and walk out, why do they have to keep increasing the price and getting people pissed off? I can live without Fuji, I'm happy with ILFORD and Kentmere

I was thinking about it at work today would ILFORD ever get into the color film business C-41?

Ilford have always stated they will not produce colour film. As for Fuji, those wanting to buy Fuji slide film should consider Agfa Precisa 100. Rebadged Fuji slide film (can't remember which and can't be *rsed to look it up) and much cheaper.

Buy Portra.

Indofunk · « **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2016, 03:21:46 PM »

Quote from: charles binns on January 23, 2016, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: x100art on January 23, 2016, 02:47:56 AM
I saw the increase in one of the film blogs I frequent on Facebook. I just can't understand it, if Fujifilm want to get out of the film business why not just close the door and walk out, why do they have to keep increasing the price and getting people pissed off? I can live without Fuji, I'm happy with ILFORD and Kentmere

I was thinking about it at work today would ILFORD ever get into the color film business C-41?

Ilford have always stated they will not produce colour film. As for Fuji, those wanting to buy Fuji slide film should consider Agfa Precisa 100. Rebadged Fuji slide film (can't remember which and can't be *rsed to look it up) and much cheaper.

Buy Portra.

Sensia perhaps? I'm just guessing based on how a few rolls I xpro'd looked (side story: what I really wanted was the original Agfa Precisa stock, which xpros into a beautiful blue/cyan, but I ended up getting the new Agfa, which I guess is the Fuji rebrand. Xpro'd, it has a yellow cast, just like the rolls of Sensia I've xpro'd. Other Fuji slide film has a strong red cast when xpro'd)

Late Developer · « **Reply #13 on:** January 23, 2016, 06:06:42 PM »

Quote from: charles binns on January 23, 2016, 02:15:20 PM

Quote from: x100art on January 23, 2016, 02:47:56 AM
I saw the increase in one of the film blogs I frequent on Facebook. I just can't understand it, if Fujifilm want to get out of the film business why not just close the door and walk out, why do they have to keep increasing the price and getting people pissed off? I can live without Fuji, I'm happy with ILFORD and Kentmere

I was thinking about it at work today would ILFORD ever get into the color film business C-41?

Ilford have always stated they will not produce colour film. As for Fuji, those wanting to buy Fuji slide film should consider Agfa Precisa 100. Rebadged Fuji slide film (can't remember which and can't be *rsed to look it up) and much cheaper.

Buy Portra.

I'll have a go with Precisia to see what it's like, Charles. However, I'm a big fan of Velvia and will always have a stash in the fridge.....

charles binns · « **Reply #14 on:** January 23, 2016, 07:18:39 PM »

Quote from: Late Developer on January 23, 2016, 06:06:42 PM

Quote from: charles binns on January 23, 2016, 02:15:20 PM
Quote from: x100art on January 23, 2016, 02:47:56 AM
I saw the increase in one of the film blogs I frequent on Facebook. I just can't understand it, if Fujifilm want to get out of the film business why not just close the door and walk out, why do they have to keep increasing the price and getting people pissed off? I can live without Fuji, I'm happy with ILFORD and Kentmere

I was thinking about it at work today would ILFORD ever get into the color film business C-41?

Ilford have always stated they will not produce colour film. As for Fuji, those wanting to buy Fuji slide film should consider Agfa Precisa 100. Rebadged Fuji slide film (can't remember which and can't be *rsed to look it up) and much cheaper.

Buy Portra.

I'll have a go with Precisia to see what it's like, Charles. However, I'm a big fan of Velvia and will always have a stash in the fridge.....

Paul, Google it. I think it might be rebadged Velvia - either that or Provia.Anyway it's alot cheaper and just as good.

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2016, 12:07:24 AM »

Like some of the automotive company collaborations and shared production lines, I keep hoping that we might see someone like Ferrania outsource coating of C-41 to someone like Ilford (who doesn't do color, but does do C-41 monochrome), so both companies offset production costs but the parent companies would keep their technologies.

Ilford has talked about how the Delta line is easier to produce. I wonder if there's opportunity to collaborate on production strategies in a facility like Ilford's that seems to be able to produce multiple films from the same production line, so Ilford could sell boutique production capability without designing or selling the competitor's films.

Note: I have zero business acumen.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2016, 12:53:16 PM »

Quote from: Jack Johnson on January 24, 2016, 12:07:24 AM

Like some of the automotive company collaborations and shared production lines, I keep hoping that we might see someone like Ferrania outsource coating of C-41 to someone like Ilford (who doesn't do color, but does do C-41 monochrome), so both companies offset production costs but the parent companies would keep their technologies.

Ilford has talked about how the Delta line is easier to produce. I wonder if there's opportunity to collaborate on production strategies in a facility like Ilford's that seems to be able to produce multiple films from the same production line, so Ilford could sell boutique production capability without designing or selling the competitor's films.

Note: I have zero business acumen.

I like how you're thinking.

well, already, ilford is helping produce films for other companies, right? Rollei RPX as I gather...?

Urban Hafner · « **Reply #17 on:** January 24, 2016, 05:36:14 PM »

Quote from: Indofunk on January 23, 2016, 03:21:46 PM

Sensia perhaps? I'm just guessing based on how a few rolls I xpro'd looked (side story: what I really wanted was the original Agfa Precisa stock, which xpros into a beautiful blue/cyan, but I ended up getting the new Agfa, which I guess is the Fuji rebrand. Xpro'd, it has a yellow cast, just like the rolls of Sensia I've xpro'd. Other Fuji slide film has a strong red cast when xpro'd)

Have you looked at Rollei CR200/ crossbird? That's supposedly made by what's left of the original Agfa.

I personally will shoot Velvia as long as it's available. There's just nothing like it right now.

gothamtomato · « **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2016, 03:59:25 PM »

Quote from: imagesfrugales on January 23, 2016, 01:03:30 AM

Why did Kodak give up slide film?

I think they had no choice but to give up on Kodachrome because environmental laws meant they couldn't manufacture it the way they once did. And Ektachrome didn't compare to the Fuji chrome films with regard to color.

From what I've seen, Fuji has had an odd strategy. When Polaroid was still in business their goal was to be the last instant film brand standing. Nothing really beyond that. Not sure that being the last to go down is a great strategy. I don't know what their strategy is with chrome film but I certainly hope it is better than that. They do make the best chrome film and I would hate to lose it.

SLVR · « **Reply #19 on:** January 26, 2016, 07:04:32 PM »

*loads ektachrome into leica...

Indofunk · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2016, 12:09:09 AM »

but ... but ... but ... Ektachrome looks better xpro'd than any Fuji stock

To me, that is...

imagesfrugales · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2016, 12:31:43 AM »

Quote from: Urban Hafner on January 24, 2016, 05:36:14 PM

Have you looked at Rollei CR200/ crossbird? That's supposedly made by what's left of the original Agfa.

Unfortunately discontinued and was made by the independant Agfa-Gevaert company in Belgium :-( What you still can buy of CR/CN 200 is the leftover from the last production. They have to produce huge quantities and now make the technical films for Kodak. Their facilities are much too big to be kept alive by a few hobby snipers. That`s the problem of all major companies. Sad but true.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2016, 08:10:12 PM »

anyone here seen the interview with fujifilm at the dpreview site yet? http://www.dpreview.com/interviews/6258617860/fujifilm-interview-jan-2016

Quote

fujifilm: Instax is being used by the younger generation. They have never seen prints! So a print popping out the side of a camera is a [novelty] for them. And physical pictures. Exchanging pictures has become a new mode of communication.

interviewer: Do you think film in general will have a resurgence?
fujifilm: No, I don’t think so. The infrastructure [is no longer in place]. We have to continue to supply film and maintain our labs for another 10-20 years, maybe but I don’t think we can change the [downward] trend.

interviewer:You mentioned in your presentation that demand for film peaked in 2000. Can you give me a current idea of how that compares to demand today?
fujifilm: We sell less than 1% of that amount now. Across all formats. But we have to supply film to photo enthusiasts. They demand it of us, so we do.

jharr · « **Reply #23 on:** January 28, 2016, 03:35:24 PM »

Quote from: jojonas~ on January 27, 2016, 08:10:12 PM

anyone here seen the interview with fujifilm at the dpreview site yet? http://www.dpreview.com/interviews/6258617860/fujifilm-interview-jan-2016

interviewer:You mentioned in your presentation that demand for film peaked in 2000. Can you give me a current idea of how that compares to demand today?
fujifilm: We sell less than 1% of that amount now. Across all formats. But we have to supply film to photo enthusiasts. They demand it of us, so we do.

[/quote]

I don't really like the begrudging tone there. It's like "photo enthusiasts" are holding their business back with their unreasonable "demands". Isn't demand what drives the market? If their business would be healthier by stopping film production altogether, why haven't they done it? I think they are just trying to justify raising prices by making themselves a 'victim'.

Francois · « **Reply #24 on:** January 28, 2016, 08:59:25 PM »

Responses like that make you feel like moving your business elsewhere...
With all the film users in Japan, I'm surprised the guy still has a job after saying stuff like that. He could at least have wrapped it up in a bit of sweet talk.
Somehow, this makes me think of the reply from the head honcho of Getty Image after they bought out Corbis...