Topic: Beerol

[Bryan]

Has anyone tried this?  I did see a few of our fellow filmwaster's mentioned on the blog.  It looks like it was done with paper.  I'm wondering if it will work with negatives.  I'm thinking I may have to give this a shot.  I don't like to waste good beer but a friend did leave some cheap crap in my fridge.

http://www.caffenol.org/2015/04/22/beerol/

[imagesfrugales]

No, I didn't try beer nor wine. If any questions or comments you can always ask "Dr. D." (Dirk), who runs the blog. He's a very nice guy.

[Francois]

I'm wondering if it works equally well with a pale ale or a dark brown guiness?

[Indofunk]

Alright, well I'm definitely trying this I'll buy a case of crappy beer dedicated for the purposes of developing. How much you wanna bet I dip into the stash when I run out of good beer and don't feel like running to the store?

On a serious note though, I assume one would need to shake all the carbonation out before attempting to use it as developer...

[jharr]

Acceptable things to do with beer:
1. Drink it - yes
2. Pour it in a glass and take a nice photo, then drink it - yes
3. Mix it with chemicals so it can't be drunk - no*

*While using cheap offensive beer may be acceptable for this purpose, one should really just spend the money on instant coffee and buy good beer for its intended purpose... to restore body and soul. 

[Indofunk]

Well SOMEone has to take these cheap disgusting beers off the market, and if it can be used to develop film, then I say do it

[Indofunk]

So now I'm even more confused about how the various -OLs work. If the common ingredients between caffenol and beerol are washing soda and vit C, then which exact chemical does the developing and which ingredients are just there for buffering?

[jharr]

Of course Reinhold is the expert, but that won't keep me from spreading misinformation and half-truths. I thought caffeic acid was the active ingredient in caffenol.
From Wikipedia:

Code: [Select]

Caffeic acid may be the active ingredient in caffenol, a do-it-yourself black-and-white photographic developer made from instant coffee.[25] The developing chemistry is similar to that of catechol or pyrogallol.[26]
I'm not sure what the analog in beer would be, but it is a complex mixture of biological effluence.

Note: I just read taht caffeic acid can be found in the bark of eucalyptus trees which are abundant here in San Diego. I think I might have to try eucalyptol!

[Indofunk]

I'm going to homebrew some beer and name it "Alcoh beer" so that my developer will be Alcohol.

[Bryan]

Acceptable things to do with beer:
1. Drink it - yes
2. Pour it in a glass and take a nice photo, then drink it - yes
3. Mix it with chemicals so it can't be drunk - no*

*While using cheap offensive beer may be acceptable for this purpose, one should really just spend the money on instant coffee and buy good beer for its intended purpose... to restore body and soul. 

The beer snob that I am I see this as good way to dispose of crappy beer that people leave in my refrigerator.  I'm not going to drink it and it takes up room where I could be putting good beer.  I usually leave the beer there thinking they will drink it when they come back but then they just bring more.  If I can get good results with it I'll never have to buy developer again.

[imagesfrugales]

Caffein does nothing. You can definately use decaffeinated coffee:
http://caffenol.blogspot.de/2014/12/arabica-coffee-or-not.html
It's the caffeic acid that develops. The molecular structure is similar to developing agents like catechol etc but not toxic.

Coffee is a week developer, Vit-C is a weak developer, together they go off. Soda is only used to make the solution alkaline. Almost all dev agents need an alkaline solution to become active.

[Kayos]

There was a can of Special Brew in the pantry of this house when we moved in, knew it would come in handy

For the non UK members, Special Brew is a super strength lager drunk by a certain sector of society

[Mike (happyforest)]

I'm going to homebrew some beer and name it "Alcoh beer" so that my developer will be Alcohol.

Already brew my own beer, don't bother naming it just drink it!

[Bryan]

I'm going to homebrew some beer and name it "Alcoh beer" so that my developer will be Alcohol.

Already brew my own beer, don't bother naming it just drink it!

I usually brew at least one 13 gallon batch per year but It's running low, I'm not using it to develop film.  I wonder if someone could come up with a recipe that would be ideal for film development?

[Indofunk]

I'm going to homebrew some beer and name it "Alcoh beer" so that my developer will be Alcohol.

Already brew my own beer, don't bother naming it just drink it!

I usually brew at least one 13 gallon batch per year but It's running low, I'm not using it to develop film.  I wonder if someone could come up with a recipe that would be ideal for film development?

Add soda and vit C while brewing and it comes out of the bottle as a one-shot developer!

[Francois]

<adolescent humor on>
But somehow, I still think it's a waste in a sense. What would be better is if someone invented peenol!
Just imagine: drink cheap beer, pee cheap beer, develop film in pee.
That way, cheap beer doesn't totally go to waste...
<adolescent humor off>

In a sense, this is not so dumb. It is reusing a byproduct that usually goes to waste... and as a bonus, it's already at a stable temperature when it comes out so no warm-up is required...

[EDIT]
I did a bit of research and it is possible!
http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00Wnnn

[Bryan]

Francois, now I'm wondering if there is anything that can't develop film.  I'm not going to try pee.

I'm going to homebrew some beer and name it "Alcoh beer" so that my developer will be Alcohol.

Already brew my own beer, don't bother naming it just drink it!

I usually brew at least one 13 gallon batch per year but It's running low, I'm not using it to develop film.  I wonder if someone could come up with a recipe that would be ideal for film development?

Add soda and vit C while brewing and it comes out of the bottle as a one-shot developer!

That would make a lot of undrinkable beer.

[Francois]

Well... I can't imagine the process as being much fun or smell terribly good...

[Indofunk]

Wasn't there an article someone posted here about a woman who peed upon (and then maybe burned?) her negs before processing them?

[imagesfrugales]

Yes, see here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/01/brigette-bloom-_n_5639794.html

But good old "Inetjoker" Larry did real development with urine in 2010, but used a probably inferiour recipe with Borax as alkali, too mild imho:
http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00Wnnn?start=0

Then 2012 the crazy german guy Dennis Skley used urine with the approved adjuvants vit-c and washing soda: bingo.
https://kwerfeldein.de/2012/07/04/der-vollblut-fotograf-entwickeln-mit-peeneol/

[jharr]

Then 2012 the crazy german guy Dennis Skley used urine with the approved adjuvants vit-c and washing soda: bingo.
https://kwerfeldein.de/2012/07/04/der-vollblut-fotograf-entwickeln-mit-peeneol/

To be honest, this had actually crossed my mind, but I never took steps to do the experiment. I'm glad someone did though. I can't say that the day will never come that I will be so desperate and under-funded that I won't give it a go.

[Bryan]

I did a test last night on some Super-XX Pan 4x5 film that expired in 1980.  I've shot several times with this film and get good results at ASA 25 so that's what I metered the shot at.  I took the recipe from the web site I listed above and upped it to 750ml.  I used 6 teaspoons of Washing Soda and 3 teaspoons of Vitamin C and 750ml of warm Budweiser beer. 

A word of warning, if the beer you are using is not already flat be careful when you add the washing soda and vitamin C.  I sprinkled a very tiny amount into the beer which resulted in a foam explosion.  I then replenished the lost beer and put it into a large cooking pot to contain the explosion.  Of course by this time the beer was pretty flat and not much happened when I added the rest of the powder mix.  It took some mixing to get everything dissolved. 

Since there are no instructions on the development time on the blog I decided to do a semi stand development similar to what I do with Caffenol.  Agitate for the first 30 seconds then 3 inversions at 1, 2, 4, 8, 16 and 32 minutes.  The total time was 70 minutes.  I then did a water stop and fixed it normally.  The negative came out very dark looking like it was over exposed and over developed.  It's likely that I over developed it but I really don't think it was over exposed. 

If anyone has any suggestions I may do another test today if I have time.  I will definitely shorten the development time quite a bit. 

With some digital manipulation this is the image I got.  It is cropped a bit.

[Indofunk]

A word of warning, if the beer you are using is not already flat be careful when you add the washing soda and vitamin C.  I sprinkled a very tiny amount into the beer which resulted in a foam explosion.  I then replenished the lost beer and put it into a large cooking pot to contain the explosion.  Of course by this time the beer was pretty flat and not much happened when I added the rest of the powder mix.  It took some mixing to get everything dissolved. 

Which is partly why I said this

On a serious note though, I assume one would need to shake all the carbonation out before attempting to use it as developer...

The other reason being possible bubbles on the film, but apparently the washing soda + vit C take care of that...

[jharr]

Bryan, I would consider less agitation. Maybe just an initial 30 sec and another 30 sec at 35min. That should reduce the amount of development and thin out the neg considerably. Just spit-balling, but that is how I do my caffenol semi-stand for 35mm.

[Bryan]

A word of warning, if the beer you are using is not already flat be careful when you add the washing soda and vitamin C.  I sprinkled a very tiny amount into the beer which resulted in a foam explosion.  I then replenished the lost beer and put it into a large cooking pot to contain the explosion.  Of course by this time the beer was pretty flat and not much happened when I added the rest of the powder mix.  It took some mixing to get everything dissolved. 

Which is partly why I said this

On a serious note though, I assume one would need to shake all the carbonation out before attempting to use it as developer...

The other reason being possible bubbles on the film, but apparently the washing soda + vit C take care of that...

I was kind of ready for the reaction, that's why I only added a small amount at first.  I thought I would be burping my Patterson tank constantly but I didn't have to do it at all after the initial burp.   

James, do you stand develop for a total of 35 minutes?  That would be half the time I did it for.

[jharr]

James, do you stand develop for a total of 35 minutes?  That would be half the time I did it for.

No, I do 70 min. I found that if I let it stand for the full 70, the dev is fine (didn't Satish once fall asleep and do a 5 hour stand with acceptable results?), but I get drag lines on 35mm. So the 35 min inversions are just to mitigate that. It seems that agitation at 1, 2, 4, 8 16 and 32 min isn't really stand dev. Replenishing the developer at the film surface that many times will certainly (I think) increase the degree of development. Now it sounds like this is your routine process, so I could be completely off base. Just following my intuition on this, not any actual experimentation.

[Indofunk]

I've semi-standed a few different ways, with pretty similar results:

1hr, agitation at 1/2 hr
1.5 hrs, agitation at 1hr
6.5 hrs (aka, "lie down development" ), agitation at 1/2 hr

This is all with either Rodinal 1:100 and/or HC110 1:100, so YMWV.

[Bryan]

I will probably take a few shots this time and try a few different ways.  I was thinking i would start with 11 minutes with 30 seconds of agitation per minute like you would do with Rodinal 1-25 and see how it looks.  Then I can make adjustments from there.  Unless someone has a better suggestion?  The problem with the stand development is I don't know if this would be considered a dilute mix like Rodinal 1-100.

[Francois]

A word of warning, if the beer you are using is not already flat be careful when you add the washing soda and vitamin C.  I sprinkled a very tiny amount into the beer which resulted in a foam explosion.

This is the power of nucleation... just like the diet coke and mentos trick.

[Bryan]

I found this on the Lomography web site, they call it Beernol:

http://www.lomography.com/tags/383504-beernol/photos

This is one recipe from the above Lomography site:

Recipe: 0,5 L beer (the cheap one is good enough), 25g washing soda, 9g vitamin c powder. 30 min developing time with 20°C. The other steps like normal b/w developing.

All kinds of recipes on the site below including Beer, Coke, Tea, Seaweed, Whiskey...

http://www.dagiebrundert.de/ECaffenol.html

500 ml beer
12 g vitamin C
50 g soda – 30°, 15 min
(I tried: Budweiser, Old Speckled Hen, Guinness, Oldenburger OLs)

[Indofunk]

All kinds of recipes on the site below including Beer, Coke, Tea, Seaweed, Whiskey...

Ok, so according to Reinhold, as long as we have vit C (weak developer) and enough washing soda to make the solution alkaline enough to facilitate the developing reaction, all we need is another weak developer to help out. Beer, Coke, tea, seaweed, chokeberries, urine, etc probably all have something in them that can help out the vit C. Maybe Peter's dream of developing with spit will come true!

[jharr]

I'll bet San Diego city tap water would develop film. It sure smells like a used public swimming pool filter. There's got to be something in there that will strip a halogen off of a metal and then supply some electrons to fill the gap. If not, then maybe sea water. It is already slightly alkaline (7.5 - 8.4).

[Indofunk]

If not, then maybe sea water. It is already slightly alkaline (7.5 - 8.4).

I think you have a seriously viable idea there ... not very reproducible perhaps, but I'd be surprised if it didn't work 

[Bryan]

Collect that sea water near a sewage outfall and I guarantee it will work. 

James, you could also use water from the Tijuana river, that's near where you are isn't it?  I've seen some nasty stuff in that river.

[Indofunk]

How about the Animas river, yikes 

[Bryan]

How about the Animas river, yikes 

Too acidic.

[Francois]

Don't forget the rubber gloves...

[Bryan]

I did another test last night.  This time I took two identical shots and tried developing two different ways.  I used the same film as before, Kodak Super XX exposed as ASA 25.  I used a red filter and compensated 3 stops for it.  I got much better results this time.  I used the same recipe for both but I ran out of Budweiser and switched to Pabst Blue Ribbon beer for the stand development.  the recipe is:
750ml beer,
37.5 g or 6 teaspoons of soda
13.5 g or 2.5 teaspoons of Vitamin C. 

Both tests were done at 22 degrees C.  The first test was for 30 minutes with 30 seconds of agitation at the beginning and 30 seconds every 10 minutes.  This one came out the best.

Geranium in Beerol by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

The second one was stand developed for 1 hour.  I gave it 30 seconds of agitation at the beginning and let it stand for the rest of the time.  The negative was a bit darker than the first test, I think it was over developed a little.

[Francois]

Comes out surprisingly good...
Probably the best use for beer

[Indofunk]

Probably the best use for beer

1. Probably the best use for crappy beer
2. Probably the best use for beer other than drinking it

Fixed it for ya. Choose one of the two

[Bryan]

Now that I've gone through a 6 pack developing film I have more room in my beer/film fridge!  What shall I fill that space with?

[Indofunk]

Well, the answer is CLEARLY more beer.

Or more film

[AJShepherd]

Definitely the best use for Budweiser.

After all, you wouldn't want to DRINK it...

[Bryan]

I've been drinking the good beer and developing film with the cheap beer.  Someone left a few cases of Rainier, a local lager.  I warned them that any beer left may be used to develop film.  Though I have no clue what I'm doing I've been trying to figure out the best development time and agitation schedule with the recipe I was working with before.  I modified the volume slightly to make a two can mix.  That's two 12 oz cans of beer, 5.5 teaspoons of washing soda and 2.5 teaspoons of Vitamin C.  The first photo below was developed for 12 minutes with 30 seconds of agitation at the beginning followed by 10 seconds every minute.

Nizo Heliomatic 8 Focovario by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

I thought the negative was a bit light so the next one was developed for 15 minutes with 30 seconds of agitation at the beginning followed by 15 sedonds every minute. 

Geranium and Wandering Jew in Beerol by Bryan Chernick, on Flickr

I think this negative was a little light as well but still very usable.  I may add a minute or two next time.  I think I need to stick with one kind of beer if I want consistency.   

[Bryan]

I forgot to mention, both of the above photos were shot on Ilford Delta 100 4x5 with a Crown Graphic.

[Francois]

The second one looks not half bad in the end...
Maybe using more more agitation would help.
I'm thinking the developer might get depleted faster than other developers and might need agitation every 30 seconds...

[Bryan]

Thanks Francois, I think Whatever I do from now on will be slight adjustments like you recommended.  I was also thinking I could dilute the beer with water to try doing stand development again.  Maybe start with a 50/50 mix. 

[jharr]

I've been drinking the good beer and developing film with the cheap beer.  Someone left a few cases of Rainier, a local lager.

The word Rainier always sounds like this in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz-WuLQz_ns

[Francois]

Thanks Francois, I think Whatever I do from now on will be slight adjustments like you recommended.  I was also thinking I could dilute the beer with water to try doing stand development again.  Maybe start with a 50/50 mix.

I'm not sure it's going to have enough kick when diluted to last for the whole development time...

[Bryan]

I've been drinking the good beer and developing film with the cheap beer.  Someone left a few cases of Rainier, a local lager.

The word Rainier always sounds like this in my head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz-WuLQz_ns

Same with me James.