Author Topic: Filmwasters Kill Fluffy Kittens Apparently. (Read 23962 times)

charles binns · « **on:** February 28, 2015, 10:09:22 AM »

Well, probably not kittens but...

I came across this this rather interesting article whilst researching the Contax G2 during my Friday lunch hour (time was when I would have been in the pub). The article is well worth reading but having finished it I scrolled down to the comments......I don't want to offend any vegetarians but I think that calling film photography cruel to animals is abit much. Still it gave me abit of a giggle - especially the comment by a "meet" (sic) eater.

http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/02/21/the-contax-g2-travel-companion-by-ibraar-hussain/

Pete_R · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2015, 11:54:36 AM »

I need to buy more film.

Francois · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2015, 01:48:52 PM »

Wow, that was an edifying discussion

Kayos · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2015, 01:51:39 PM »

That's why you don't read the bottom half of the Internet, still it did remind me to finish my order with Maco, I wonder how many kittens are needed to make 64 rolls of film?

Photo_Utopia · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2015, 02:08:52 PM »

I understand his point; although it's a bit like changing a washer to save water and then leaving the tap running so many things use byproducts that to be a real vegan you need to spend all your time researching not just the products that contain meat and byproducts but also the companies that make any product have no links to animal exploitation.

Film uses animal byproducts but then so do some medical treatments, to just go for the low hanging fruit is to risk being a hypocrite.

I eat meat, wear leather and use film those are all choices just like some drive cars use ionic surfactants and other nasties, what I don't like is others who will tell me how evil I am based on their values-which I don't share.

I'm going off to shoot some boiled cow bone smeared on plastic..

Francois · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2015, 05:03:26 PM »

I wonder if he uses bone dust as a ecological fertilizer in his garden?

I also wonder if he takes his medicine in gel caps... or if he buys acetaminophen in pill form.
One contains gelatin, the other contains lactose...

Terry · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2015, 11:36:57 PM »

So I should stop working on a formula for "Kittenol"? (Probably just as well; the fur was leaving marks on the negs....)

AJShepherd · « **Reply #7 on:** March 01, 2015, 01:02:13 AM »

The thing that gets me about stuff like this is when people post this on the internet.
Their phone or computer may be built in sweatshops by overworked underpaid staff. They may use lots of components and 'conflict materials' (i.e. tantalum capacitors) from dodgy places and the production of which generates pollution.
Then their computer, and their internet connection, and every other internet connection and server along the way runs off power which might be generated from fossil fuels and increase climate change...

Somehow, that's all OK, but the odd roll of film is bad....?

LT · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2015, 08:05:27 AM »

I am a veggie, and a Filmwaster, so I guess that makes me a hypocrite. But, what about all the chemical waste that occurs in the manufacturing of components for digital cameras that need replacing every 2 years because of obsolescence, and the damage that is doing to wildlife and nature? And let's face it, gelatine is a by-product of other industries and is not the reason for animal husbandry and slaughter in the first place. Making good use of a bad situation I'd say.

Well, that's my conscience clear then

Francois · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2015, 02:42:35 PM »

I heard on YouTube (was it the blog brothers or smarter everyday... I can't remember) that in the production of chips they use an acid that is so caustic that the scientists know absolutely nothing about it. The stuff eats through glass, metal, rock, most plastics... And yet it's used everyday to clean the silicon wafers and etch them. That can't possibly be good for the environment!

Bryan · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2015, 04:18:52 PM »

Some of the most dangerous chemicals I've worked with were from the production of microchips. It was a site near Silicone Valley where someone dumped compressed gas cylinders of Silane and Arsine among other toxic gases.

Jeff Warden · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2015, 07:05:30 PM »

I'm allergic to kittens. Have at it.

If you're seriously considering adding a Contax to your kit - I once had a G1, G2 and most of the lenses - I would suggest researching repair centers in your area first. The Gs were easily the best cameras I've owned and are quite reliable but after having them 'repaired' by the only available service center in the US I ended up selling the lot out of frustration. If you have a reliable service center though I can't recommend these wonderful rangefinders enough. They feel good, sound good, look cool and have wonderful lenses.

charles binns · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2015, 07:16:34 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Warden on March 01, 2015, 07:05:30 PM

I'm allergic to kittens. Have at it.

If you're seriously considering adding a Contax to your kit - I once had a G1, G2 and most of the lenses - I would suggest researching repair centers in your area first. The Gs were easily the best cameras I've owned and are quite reliable but after having them 'repaired' by the only available service center in the US I ended up selling the lot out of frustration. If you have a reliable service center though I can't recommend these wonderful rangefinders enough. They feel good, sound good, look cool and have wonderful lenses.

Thanks - I have been toying with buying a rangefinder for a while. I really want a Leica M3 or M6 and was only looking at other rangefinders for comparison. However, I need to sell my Hasselblad kit before I buy the Leica and I haven't got round to that yet. then I need to kit myself out for a holiday in Botswana later this year. And then I think, what the hell, I only ever use my holga in any case so what's the point of shelling out on an expensive toy like the M6.

And then again I quite like the look of the Xpan. I've always had a thing about panoramic cameras.

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Late Developer · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2015, 08:12:31 PM »

Quote from: charles binns on March 01, 2015, 07:16:34 PM

Quote from: Jeff Warden on March 01, 2015, 07:05:30 PM
I'm allergic to kittens. Have at it.

If you're seriously considering adding a Contax to your kit - I once had a G1, G2 and most of the lenses - I would suggest researching repair centers in your area first. The Gs were easily the best cameras I've owned and are quite reliable but after having them 'repaired' by the only available service center in the US I ended up selling the lot out of frustration. If you have a reliable service center though I can't recommend these wonderful rangefinders enough. They feel good, sound good, look cool and have wonderful lenses.

Thanks - I have been toying with buying a rangefinder for a while. I really want a Leica M3 or M6 and was only looking at other rangefinders for comparison. However, I need to sell my Hasselblad kit before I buy the Leica and I haven't got round to that yet. then I need to kit myself out for a holiday in Botswana later this year. And then I think, what the hell, I only ever use my holga in any case so what's the point of shelling out on an expensive toy like the M6.

And then again I quite like the look of the Xpan. I've always had a thing about panoramic cameras.

I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.

Hi Charles.

I just disposed of an XPan. Great camera but has a couple of "Achilles Heels". First, the lenses are slow - and made worse when you use the centre spot filters necessary to avoid vignetting. Secondly, the version 1 (and maybe the second one as well) doesn't show shutter speed in the viewfinder. Therefore, as it's aperture priority or manual, you set the aperture and hope for the best - or tripod mount it - or have a quick look at the LCD screen and recompose - or set the shutter speed and fiddle with the aperture ring and hope the "okay" light comes on. A street-shooter's dream it is not.

If you're looking at Leica, the M3 has bright lines for 50mm, 90mm and 135mm. The M2 has 35mm, 50mm and 90mm. Apologies if you know already but it's sort of important unless you are just going for a 50mm. Apparently, it's possible to get Leica to fit an M6 style finderwhich will give you everything from 28mm to 135mm.

charles binns · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2015, 08:25:00 PM »

Paul

Thank you. To be honest I already have a Widelux (though I was thinking of selling it) so I don't really need the Xpan. It is just a camera I've always fancied. Abit like the Mamiya 6 -but that would just get me started...

I will probably still thinking about which Leica to buy in 2020 the rate I'm going.

irv_b · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2015, 10:06:19 PM »

As someone who has never held, shot or been in the vicinity of any Leica being used - the closest I have come is driving past the shop in Holborn, what is this lust that people seem to have for it. Is it really that good a camera (apply the adage, it's not the camera it is the person behind it!), does it instantly evelate your shots to some higher plane? Is it a case of my d**k is bigger than yours, I mean the prices of them must be down to something? I am genuinely in the dark and really don't mean to offend anyone who has/wants one, but would like to be enlightened!

Late Developer · « **Reply #16 on:** March 01, 2015, 11:09:07 PM »

Quote from: irv_b on March 01, 2015, 10:06:19 PM

As someone who has never held, shot or been in the vicinity of any Leica being used - the closest I have come is driving past the shop in Holborn, what is this lust that people seem to have for it. Is it really that good a camera (apply the adage, it's not the camera it is the person behind it!), does it instantly evelate your shots to some higher plane? Is it a case of my d**k is bigger than yours, I mean the prices of them must be down to something? I am genuinely in the dark and really don't mean to offend anyone who has/wants one, but would like to be enlightened!

For some people it's a bit of expensive "willy-waving" but there are those of us who wanted one for years but could never afford one and then along came digital and down came the price to something affordable and we got to play with the rich kids' toys. They are seriously beautiful pieces of kit. My only gripes are that you lose some of the frame with larger lenses due to the rangefinder mechanism. The other is that the loading is a bit "Marmite". Some love it and it comes second nature. For me, an SLR style load is what I'm most used to. No big deal either way. As for dealers, RG Lewis on Holborn are a good bunch, as are all the Leica dealers I've met.

However, I'll only ever buy s/hand and I really get on with the chaps at Aperture who have cut me some really good deals. If you ever get the chance to own a Leica, it's great fun and the lenses are stellar. I'd recommend a Bessa and Leica glass ahead of a Leica body and Voigtlander glass - but that's because Im of the opinion that the lens matters bore than a light-tight box with a shutter.

LT · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2015, 06:12:19 AM »

I preferred the bit where we talked about saving those fluffy kittens. Leica Schmeica.

Verian · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2015, 01:10:49 PM »

Going to have a go at making my own film.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #19 on:** March 02, 2015, 02:24:21 PM »

can't we combine the subjects? leica AND shooting fluffy kittens

Francois · « **Reply #20 on:** March 02, 2015, 02:30:37 PM »

A leica doesn't purr on your lap...
But they have the smoothest mechanics you've ever seen and their lenses are excellent.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #21 on:** March 02, 2015, 02:36:01 PM »

seriously though, I'm a veggie too and as people have noted, living a life fully after that is hard and living environmentally friendly and still reaping the benefits of modern society... yeah, good luck.
I don't eat meat because I don't want to. if I can rule animal traces out of other products like shampoo and such then that's nice but I'm not going to sit off all of my free time staying in contact with producers of anything from energy to house hold equipment.

a little man buying a fairtrade apple ain't saving the world on his own. big change is needed.

now I won't write anything more about that because I do photography because it's fun and I except it from much of that thinking so I can relax with it.

Ezzie · « **Reply #22 on:** March 02, 2015, 02:47:13 PM »

I have a pragmatic take on it. Have a look at your teeth, and tell me we are not omnivorous. If anybody does not want to eat meat, that is another matter. They are of course welcome to (not) do so. But trying to advocate that eating meat is unnatural and cruel, I would beg to differ.

SLVR · « **Reply #23 on:** March 02, 2015, 03:31:42 PM »

Charles, being an owner/operator of a leica and mamiya rangefinder I really think a mamiya 6 would be great for you.

You keep the familiarity of the square format you're used to and you get the benefit of rangefinder focussing with great optics.

I find that there is a downside to switching back and forth between aspect ratios.

LT · « **Reply #24 on:** March 02, 2015, 04:25:45 PM »

No one has done that Ezzie. In fact, in the 25 years since I made the ethical choice to stop supporting the mass produced meat industry, I've never met a veggie who does claim meat is unnatural - unnessecary may be, but not abnormal . It's a choice we make. In fact the most aggressive opinions on the subject, in my experience, seem to come from overly defensive meat eaters who assume my vegetarianism is an assault on their own lifestyles. It is quite amusing really.

Long gone are the days of the Citroën 2CV drivers in vegan sandals shouting, "meat is murder" at customers in butchers shops!

Ezzie · « **Reply #25 on:** March 02, 2015, 05:39:25 PM »

Did not mean to imply you were preaching Leon. But I have met more than a few who have. To be honest I could live on veg and fish, but funnily enough it is hard with two kids who are very picky when it comes to food. And I understand the views on mordern animal husbandry, it is not all pretty.

LT · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2015, 06:19:58 PM »

Its okay Ezzie, I didnt feel like you did think that, and your point is sound. The 'meat is murder' brigade did create a huge hangover for more forward thinking vegetarians!

Dragging things back to the OP .... I wonder why there has never been an alternative to mammalian gelatine to hold the silver? I seem to remember the Ilford guys saying that they tried algae-based gelatine, but it just didnt work and caused all kinds of quality issues. You'd think there would be something available by now - maybe something grown in a lab rather than taken from animals? I wonder how much of it is the manufacturers not wanting to put the research in ... meat gelatine is cheap, and it works i guess.

Terry · « **Reply #27 on:** March 02, 2015, 06:53:49 PM »

I went off the red meat in the late 80s, when I lived with a woman who was an ethical vegetarian. Luckily, it was in London and I learned to like Indian food about the same time; never reacquired a taste for meat. I'll eat the occasional fish or poultry dish but mainly veg. That said, I like a pair of leather shoes (it's just more durable) and I have no problem with animal gelatine in film.

What bugs me about the "meat is murder" brigade is the same thing that I dislike about the vocal advocates of digital imaging: the idea that we all have to be in lock step with them.

Bryan · « **Reply #28 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:23:39 PM »

Quote from: Leon on March 02, 2015, 06:19:58 PM

Dragging things back to the OP .... I wonder why there has never been an alternative to mammalian gelatine to hold the silver? I seem to remember the Ilford guys saying that they tried algae-based gelatine, but it just didnt work and caused all kinds of quality issues. You'd think there would be something available by now - maybe something grown in a lab rather than taken from animals? I wonder how much of it is the manufacturers not wanting to put the research in ... meat gelatine is cheap, and it works i guess.

I would think that synthesizing or producing it from something like algae would be hard to compete with a free or very cheap wast product from another industry. I look at film as way of reducing waste, those kitten and cow bones would just end up in the trash if we didn't make film with it.

Adam Doe · « **Reply #29 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:25:59 PM »

Quote from: Ezzie on March 02, 2015, 05:39:25 PM

...To be honest I could live on veg and fish, but funnily enough it is hard with two kids who are very picky when it comes to food...

Ezzie, Isn't that the truth! My oldest for the longest time wouldn't eat anything that wasn't cheese or nugget shaped. Though my youngest declared a couple of weeks ago that he was going vegetarian as he and a school friend stuffed their faces full of lettuce (this just after he ate enough seafood to stock an aquarium) at the end of a Lunar New Year meal. His vegetarianism lasted all of a day and a half.

Leon, I too am surprised that an alternative source of gelatin hasn't come about for film but I think you hit the nail on the head. As a by product of the meat industry, animal based gelatin is probably the most economical.

jharr · « **Reply #30 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:31:54 PM »

Quote from: Leon on March 02, 2015, 06:19:58 PM

You'd think there would be something available by now - maybe something grown in a lab rather than taken from animals? I wonder how much of it is the manufacturers not wanting to put the research in ... meat gelatine is cheap, and it works i guess.

<rant>I would imagine that "lab produced" gelatin would be oil-based or use petroleum products. Then you would have a whole new set of protesters crying foul. Short of returning to a completely agrarian society where people are too busy trying to find something to eat to protest anything, there will always be those who disagree with some aspect of something someone else is doing. Our problem truly is that technology has freed up our time and we don't know what to do with it, so we sit around thinking of ways to tell other people how or how not to spend their free time. Our need for freedom is only exceeded by our need to control others.</rant>

charles binns · « **Reply #31 on:** March 02, 2015, 07:51:56 PM »

Quote from: SLVR on March 02, 2015, 03:31:42 PM

Charles, being an owner/operator of a leica and mamiya rangefinder I really think a mamiya 6 would be great for you.

You keep the familiarity of the square format you're used to and you get the benefit of rangefinder focussing with great optics.

I find that there is a downside to switching back and forth between aspect ratios.

You might be right SLVR - and I've lusted after a Mamiya 6 for years. The only disadvantage I can think of is that by all accounts a Leica M6 is the best camera on the market if you want to bludgeon rare animals to death. That and the fact that Leica lenses are faster.

SLVR · « **Reply #32 on:** March 02, 2015, 08:00:35 PM »

I think I would choose an M3 or an M2 to bludgeon, but its common knowledge that if you want to pulverize one would use a Pentax 67.

Unless you are shooting at night I don't think that you will find the mamiya too slow. I do find it sometimes but usually when shooting indoors or during dusk/night.

charles binns · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2015, 08:13:30 PM »

Quote from: SLVR on March 02, 2015, 08:00:35 PM

I think I would choose an M3 or an M2 to bludgeon, but its common knowledge that if you want to pulverize one would use a Pentax 67.

Unless you are shooting at night I don't think that you will find the mamiya too slow. I do find it sometimes but usually when shooting indoors or during dusk/night.

Well I've always got my Kiev 60 to fall back on. You can bludgeon a small country into submission with that thing. Seriously though, I reckon you are right about the Mamiya 6, but I'll need to sell the Hasselblad first.

Hungry Mike · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2015, 08:14:28 PM »

Are we allowed to talk about marshmallow cookies in this thread? Or have we exhausted that elsewhere?

Quote

To be honest I already have a Widelux (though I was thinking of selling it)

Perhaps we should do this in another thread but since it was mentioned in this thread... Late Developer's views on the Xpan have sort of confirmed what I feared about those cameras so I'm curious Charles how did you find the Widelux? Did you have any issues with it?

charles binns · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2015, 08:50:43 PM »

Quote from: Hungry Mike on March 02, 2015, 08:14:28 PM

Are we allowed to talk about marshmallow cookies in this thread? Or have we exhausted that elsewhere?

Quote
To be honest I already have a Widelux (though I was thinking of selling it)
Perhaps we should do this in another thread but since it was mentioned in this thread... Late Developer's views on the Xpan have sort of confirmed what I feared about those cameras so I'm curious Charles how did you find the Widelux? Did you have any issues with it?

I like it though I hardly use it. Nice sharp images and even exposure. The only issue I started having is banding on the negatives - the answer to that is to get the thing serviced. And maybe one day I'll get round to doing that. Other than that though, I loved it.

Here is an example or two

LT · « **Reply #36 on:** March 02, 2015, 09:09:27 PM »

Quote from: jharr on March 02, 2015, 07:31:54 PM

Quote from: Leon on March 02, 2015, 06:19:58 PM
You'd think there would be something available by now - maybe something grown in a lab rather than taken from animals? I wonder how much of it is the manufacturers not wanting to put the research in ... meat gelatine is cheap, and it works i guess.

<rant>I would imagine that "lab produced" gelatin would be oil-based or use petroleum products. Then you would have a whole new set of protesters crying foul. Short of returning to a completely agrarian society where people are too busy trying to find something to eat to protest anything, there will always be those who disagree with some aspect of something someone else is doing. Our problem truly is that technology has freed up our time and we don't know what to do with it, so we sit around thinking of ways to tell other people how or how not to spend their free time. Our need for freedom is only exceeded by our need to control others.</rant>

Are you ranting at me Jharr? I hope not! I can't remember ever telling anyone how to spend their free time!

I was thinking more of an organically grown/ genetically constructed medium, rather than a petrochemical alternative, A bit like the lab meat and cartilage that is being grown now.

jharr · « **Reply #37 on:** March 02, 2015, 09:20:04 PM »

Quote from: Leon on March 02, 2015, 09:09:27 PM

Are you ranting at me Jharr? I hope not! I can't remember ever telling anyone how to spend their free time!

I was thinking more of an organically grown/ genetically constructed medium, rather than a petrochemical alternative, A bit like the lab meat and cartilage that is being grown now.

I just rant at the ether, not anyone in particular. I don't actually expect that anyone is listening.

How about if we put a big "Laboratory" sign on the rendering plants? Then our gelatin could bear the label "Contains laboratory produced organic compounds." That might settle them down. The down side is that they could then charge 5x for the same product and the price of film would go up accordingly. I wouldn't matter much to me though since I generally buy expired 'meat-grade' film.

Francois · « **Reply #38 on:** March 02, 2015, 10:46:51 PM »

Well... there used to be some papers where the silver was held in albumen.
The hens don't mind since they lay an egg a day anyways.

Maybe it would also work with some rice byproduct. I just got a tube of mounting paste made from the leftovers of the rice production and it's pretty darn sticky.

The problem with the gelatin made from salt water algae probably has to do with the amount of iodine they carry. I don't know about soft water algae though...

tkmedia · « **Reply #39 on:** March 02, 2015, 11:55:11 PM »

only the fluffy ones eh.

Terry · « **Reply #40 on:** March 03, 2015, 01:48:36 PM »

Charles, those Widelux shots are wonderful.

mcduff · « **Reply #41 on:** March 03, 2015, 04:58:42 PM »

I have taken way too many topics OT lately, so I have been trying to keep my mouth shut

But I am one of those decades long vegetarians who likes leather in my shoes, eggs in my frying pan and gelatin in my film! And there are no inconsistencies here in that I try to live my life following my assorted ideals and at the same time LIVE my life. It is all cost-benefit analysis for me, especially as I am usually balancing a series of (sometimes conflicting ethical choices). I remember pissing of a vegan friend once when I mentioned that her factory-made veggie 'sausages' that flew half way across the world likely had a bigger carbon footprint than some locally raised free-range chicken. She did not find it as funny as it did! I will conclude my mini rant with a pretty cool infographic by XKCD, which I will toss in at the end of this post.

But to slightly veer back on topic, I am surprised the photo_utopia has not chimed in on this gelatin issue as he has a good blog posting on how specific the requirements are for gelatin. He has a great quote Kenneth Mees (a famous film emulsion expert) as saying "If cows didn't like mustard we couldn't go to the movies" -- which refers to how gelatin varies so greatly that the product from cows that eat mustard is specifically good for film (it has sulphur in it which is a chemical benefit to the processes at work). So finding a replacement (for what is now a niche use of the material) would be rather hard as gelatin is not all the same!

Photo_Utopia · « **Reply #42 on:** March 03, 2015, 10:27:50 PM »

I haven't chimed in because I didn't want to confirm my geek status.

But...
Gelatin from animals is really the only useful colloid because it contains a labile sulpher which reacts with silver halides to boost sensitivity at least 10x.
Salts that occur naturally also encourage crystal growth (known as Ostwald ripening) which also boosts sensitivity.

So all hail Dr. Maddox we should all thank him for his support
https://adelehouston.wordpress.com/2012/03/27/dr-richard-maddox-inventor-of-the-dry-plate-process/

LT · « **Reply #43 on:** March 03, 2015, 10:46:25 PM »

Cool info. Thanks. And McDuff... We went to the same school of vegetarianism is seems. Common sense prevails

16mman · « **Reply #44 on:** March 04, 2015, 07:21:14 PM »

There's nothing more natural than killing animals and using their bodies for food, clothing and tools. This is a really interesting article on the subject of animal products and the internet, from a filmmaker who made a film about humane animal slaughter: http://nofilmschool.com/2015/02/how-i-released-controversial-sxsw-short-online

limr · « **Reply #45 on:** March 04, 2015, 07:37:40 PM »

There are many reasons why people choose to not eat meat. Not all these reasons create conflicts with other uses of animal products.

Hungry Mike · « **Reply #46 on:** March 04, 2015, 08:15:16 PM »

Quote

a pretty cool infographic by XKCD

I might be reading it wrong but based on that chart we should eat more goats, right? I kid…

Going back to the original post, I don’t know how gelatin production fits into the industrial farming cycle but by my reckoning it seems to me that film (and maybe marshmallow cookies) is a better use for that byproduct than dumping it.

I think as human beings there is never a moment in our lives and deaths where we do not have some negative impact on the world. So minimizing that impact, whether in your diet, in your hobbies or how we use what we produce, is a good goal to have. Clouding it with agendas and confused thinking muddies that goal.

So following that line of thinking further, about our impact on our world and what that means, I think film photography as a hobby can do its bit. Many of us are using old rehabilitated cameras & expired film rescued from the bin, we [try] to store and use our chemicals as long as possible, we share images, film & cameras with friends. We might be Filmwasters but I don’t think we are really “wasting” in the sense of wilful indifference to film.

Kai-san · « **Reply #47 on:** March 04, 2015, 08:54:59 PM »

That's very well put, Mike! What can be more ecologically friendly than using second hand cameras? Although I am a vegetarian myself I realise that animals will always be used for food and other purposes, and knowing that it makes sense to make the most out of a natural resource. I do for example enjoy listening to baroque music played on original instruments with strings made of sheep gut. But we need to cut down on meat consumption which is the basis of an industry that has in some places turned into a monstrosity.
I think we should keep using and caring for all the nice film cameras out there. A nice side effect is that we get to look cool on the streets as well!

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #48 on:** March 05, 2015, 12:04:42 AM »

Fascinating discussion about everything from kidding about eating goats (I see what you did there...and I thought it was funny) to why people like Leicas. Long live Filmwasters.

Full disclosure: I'm a veggie too. Have been for 32 years. About 20 years ago I decided I'm like that because it what makes me happy. Given the parlous state of the world economy and the millions of people who don't even have clean drinking water, let alone a choice of what they're going to eat for lunch, I don't think it's my place to try and justify the choice I've made from my incredibly privileged position w/ regard to what I eat in any other terms. I do it because I want to. By the same token, I have no idea why anyone would want to have a go at me for that, or make assumptions about anything to do with me just because I don't want to eat meat/fish/worms/oysters....or Marmite. Actually, especially Marmite

And I've never wanted to own a Leica.

limr · « **Reply #49 on:** March 05, 2015, 02:57:24 AM »

Wow, lots of vegetarians around here! I suppose I'm technically not a full-on vegetarian because I do still eat some fish on occasion, but I haven't eaten any land animals in more than 20 years.

Mike's right - we all leave an imprint. I personally try to minimize mine where I can, but things have to be prioritized. We all just have to pick our battles and make choices that allow us to live with ourselves.

Author Topic: Filmwasters Kill Fluffy Kittens Apparently. (Read 23962 times)

Terry

Terry

Terry