Author Topic: Refillable cassettes (Read 11620 times)

Nigel · « **on:** December 15, 2014, 07:12:06 PM »

I'm ordering a bulk roll of Orwo N74+ (I've been quite impressed with the results I've seen - but that's for later), so I need some film cassettes. I've never used them before so I didn't appreciate that they come in metal and plastic versions - is one better than the other? Is there a particular brand that you'd recommend?

Thanks!

jharr · « **Reply #1 on:** December 15, 2014, 07:33:41 PM »

I have found that the plastic ones with the screw-on caps are much simpler to deal with than the metal snap on ones, but I am generally rolling my own in the dark and not with a daylight loader. I also will go down to a store where they still take in 35mm for development and get a bunch of used cassettes from there and just tape my film to the stub that is left hanging out. That is even simpler still.

02Pilot · « **Reply #2 on:** December 15, 2014, 08:15:15 PM »

I've got plastic and metal, both with end caps that clip on. The plastic ones are easier to work with, but I've had the occasional issue with an end cap popping off. I have no problem with the metal ones except for the awful slotted spindles they came with, which I've tried to load as designed and ended up with lots of ripped film ends; had to go back and retape every single one I had loaded with a long strip all the way around and then some just to secure the film. Ideally, I'd use the metal canisters with smooth solid spindles.

SLVR · « **Reply #3 on:** December 15, 2014, 08:21:36 PM »

02Pilot - Pro tip

The old Ilford canisters are metal, reusable and have smooth spindles. PLUS you get a nice cool old ilford label to boot!

mcduff · « **Reply #4 on:** December 15, 2014, 08:33:28 PM »

Haha, I used to love refilling the ilford canisters! That is probably why I have a totally unfounded preference with the metal ones. I have never used the plastic ones (despite the fact that they are cheaper and much easier to get). Perhaps that will be a good goal for 2015 of trying out some plastic ones instead of being a crumudgeon insisting on the metal ones.

James I like your idea of recycling from the photo-finisher, especially for use of colour film (where the canister is on a one way trip).

Francois · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2014, 10:25:09 PM »

I have used the plastic ones a lot. Easy to use but you do have to be careful with the screw-on tops. Apart from that, not much difference with the metal ones.
On both, you have to remove the dust in the felt trap by blowing some air through the lips.

I found the snap-on metal cans I have seem just fine. The up side to the metal cans is that they come pre-coded for DX speeds. Mine are all 400...
Also to open them more easily, you just give them a good bang on the countertop so that the internal spindle sends the cap flying...

As for brands, I don't think there's much difference between them. Personally I always go for what's the cheapest and most easily available.

Terry · « **Reply #6 on:** December 15, 2014, 10:32:08 PM »

I've used both the metal snap-on and the plastic screw-on types. The metal ones I've found tend to get distorted after more than a couple of reloads and I've had the caps pop off a couple of them. The plastic ones seem more durable.

Hungry Mike · « **Reply #7 on:** December 16, 2014, 12:16:59 AM »

I always seem to bend the reusable metal canisters so I tend to prefer the plastic. Tho I find that the plastic ones can pop open accidentally. So I can't win.

Quote

I also will go down to a store where they still take in 35mm for development and get a bunch of used cassettes...

Sadly I believe our local photo finisher bends the carts or doesn't bother to leave a tongue of film to tape to as she takes out the film, so they can't be reused. So I often reuse crappy film I buy on ebay. The cheaper & crappier the better...

timor · « **Reply #8 on:** December 16, 2014, 01:49:55 AM »

Both, plastic and metal have good and bad sides. With bulkloader I find metal easier to deal with as the gap when they open is much wider to slide the film in the slot. Disadvantage: if not well closed can pop open, same may happen, if overused and not holding firmly anymore. Never had a problem with deformation because of usage. Maybe I am just careful. Plastic canister are harder to put the film in the slot. If done wrongly film can shave off the felt and by by canister.

With "popping" closure there is an easy fix. I put label on the cassette, simple one, made of masking tape, with type of film, number of frames and enough space to add some info regarding development. I make sure, that top of the label reaches and is stuck to the top. This way it can't unscrew. Bingo !

Francois · « **Reply #9 on:** December 16, 2014, 01:56:14 PM »

Also, make sure you tape both sides of the film to the spool...
It's the only way to prevent a film pull-out at the end of the roll... And yes it does happen.

Adam Doe · « **Reply #10 on:** December 16, 2014, 05:25:37 PM »

I've only ever tried out the metal canisters with the pop on caps and I use a bulk loader. They can sometimes require a bunch of fidgeting to close up tight, but all in all nothing that would dissuade me from using them. Will have to give the plastics a try one day.

Francois · « **Reply #11 on:** December 16, 2014, 09:04:51 PM »

Plastic is a lot easier to close, you just twist the top.
Playing with my metal cans, I found that if you squeeze them just right the top gets easier to put on.

Is it just me or does the last sentence sound a bit licentious?

Nigel · « **Reply #12 on:** December 16, 2014, 10:03:27 PM »

Well, thank you, that's quite a range of opinions. I'm going to go metal, there doesn't seem to be any significant negatives to using them (see what I did there!), and for some reason plastic just doesn't seem right. The Orwo is on its way so I'm looking forward to playing with it.

gsgary · « **Reply #13 on:** December 16, 2014, 10:14:09 PM »

I've got both but prefer the plastic im always worried the metal tops are going to pop off because they can be a pain to get on, if N74 is as good as UN54 you will like it

Mike (happyforest) · « **Reply #14 on:** December 17, 2014, 07:56:23 PM »

Nigel

Where are you getting the cassettes from?

Thanks

Mike

limr · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2014, 08:39:52 PM »

Quote from: Francois on December 16, 2014, 09:04:51 PM

Plastic is a lot easier to close, you just twist the top.
Playing with my metal cans, I found that if you squeeze them just right the top gets easier to put on.

Is it just me or does the last sentence sound a bit licentious?

I've had no issues with the metal cans since learning the trick of squeezing them in the right way when putting the top on.

You're right, it does read kinda naughty!

Francois · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2014, 09:27:38 PM »

Thanks for confirming that

Nigel · « **Reply #17 on:** December 20, 2014, 09:29:27 AM »

Quote from: Mike (happyforest) on December 17, 2014, 07:56:23 PM

Nigel

Where are you getting the cassettes from?

Thanks

Mike

Hi Mike

In the first instance I found 5 plastic ones on ebay cheap so I've ordered those, I haven't ordered the metal ones yet. I thought i'd see how the plastic worked.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Nigel · « **Reply #18 on:** December 20, 2014, 09:31:00 AM »

The film is coming from the factory so it looks like I won't get that until the New Year. :-(

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gsgary · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2014, 10:10:43 AM »

When I ordered from the UK supplier it came quickly

Francois · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2014, 01:59:30 PM »

I think you're going to like the plastic cans.

Nigel · « **Reply #21 on:** December 24, 2014, 10:56:23 AM »

Well the Orwo's arrived. I'm a little excited to say the least!

My step-father has given me this beauty. You can see what sort of man he is by the handy cutout in the side of he box.

I've never used this before so I'm a little nervous, but honestly what can go wrong!

Francois · « **Reply #22 on:** December 24, 2014, 02:03:42 PM »

Loader with a frame counter...nice

mcduff · « **Reply #23 on:** December 24, 2014, 03:09:37 PM »

I have that one and I like it. I wanted this style of loader and find it easy to use. I am a noob at it (I think I have just done 2 100') rolls but I find it fast and easy to do. I will usually watch some TV or something and can load up a ton of film in an episode.

Terry · « **Reply #24 on:** December 24, 2014, 03:58:45 PM »

Well done Nigel. That loader looks like it's never been used. And is there anything better than a fresh can of film?

jharr · « **Reply #25 on:** December 24, 2014, 05:09:12 PM »

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it is related. I have a Watson loader myself and I have trouble getting it to count the frames. It works fine while it is open, but as soon as I put the cover on, no more clicks. It seems like the cover is preventing the sprocket holes from engaging the counter wheel. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong??

timor · « **Reply #26 on:** December 24, 2014, 05:38:25 PM »

Quote from: Nigel on December 16, 2014, 10:03:27 PM

I'm going to go metal, there doesn't seem to be any significant negatives to using them (see what I did there!), and for some reason plastic just doesn't seem right. The Orwo is on its way so I'm looking forward to playing with it.

To makes things a bit funny: ORWO used only plastic cassettes with theirs spooled film. (Historically)

Francois · « **Reply #27 on:** December 24, 2014, 06:07:07 PM »

Quote from: jharr on December 24, 2014, 05:09:12 PM

Sorry to hijack the thread, but it is related. I have a Watson loader myself and I have trouble getting it to count the frames. It works fine while it is open, but as soon as I put the cover on, no more clicks. It seems like the cover is preventing the sprocket holes from engaging the counter wheel. Any thoughts on what I am doing wrong??

Are you sure that the film doesn't loop a bit and not engage the sprocket properly?

I know these are slightly sensitive to film thickness, so it may be related.

I have two Lloyds type loaders and all I do is count the number of turns of the crank. If the Watson stops counting but the film still freely runs in it, you can start counting the turns of the crank for a fairly reliable result.

Exposures - Turns
36-31
24-24
18-19
10-13

mcduff · « **Reply #28 on:** December 24, 2014, 07:01:51 PM »

James, it is weird that the clicking is working when it is open and not when it is closed. It should almost work better when closed as most Watson loaders have a little guide on the cover to help press the film against the sprockets. When the loader is empty can you rotate the dial (making it click)? Maybe something on the door is making it bind but unless it is a lot different than my model (#100) I cant really see what would go wrong.

I think I usually make the film reasonably snug (by a slight crank) before I close the door and open the 'gate'.

I should say that sometimes I am really slack about loading and don't put a lot of thought into how much I am loading on each canister. I never bother with the dial and just try to remember to count the clicks - but often will get sidetracked and loose my count.

A FINAL ASIDE: I CAN'T BELIEVE I SPENT DECADES AS A FILM SHOOTER WITHOUT LOADING MY OWN FILM!!! It is so much cheaper and not that hard or time consuming!!!!!! Even ignoring deals, I am loading my Fp4+ for about 1/2 price. I just wish I could bulk load 120 haha (yes I know it is sort of feasible).

Nigel · « **Reply #29 on:** December 24, 2014, 07:30:10 PM »

Quote

A FINAL ASIDE: I CAN'T BELIEVE I SPENT DECADES AS A FILM SHOOTER WITHOUT LOADING MY OWN FILM!!! It is so much cheaper and not that hard or time consuming!!!!!! Even ignoring deals, I am loading my Fp4+ for about 1/2 price. I just wish I could bulk load 120 haha (yes I know it is sort of feasible).

Don - what's weird is in the UK. Unless I've gone way wrong with my maths tri-x costs more in bulk than 36exp rolls.

At my local store a 36exp cassette is £4.80. 30m is £136.50. I calculate I can get about 20 x 36exp cassettes from 30m which is £6.81 / cassette, how does that work?

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/Kodak-Tri-X/products/191/

John Robison · « **Reply #30 on:** December 24, 2014, 07:46:00 PM »

Quote from: mcduff on December 24, 2014, 07:01:51 PM

A FINAL ASIDE: I CAN'T BELIEVE I SPENT DECADES AS A FILM SHOOTER WITHOUT LOADING MY OWN FILM!!! It is so much cheaper and not that hard or time consuming!!!!!! Even ignoring deals, I am loading my Fp4+ for about 1/2 price. I just wish I could bulk load 120 haha (yes I know it is sort of feasible).

For some reason I cannot see the savings. Except with Ilford films perhaps. Here in the US 100ft. of bulk Tri-X is actually a little more than 20 preloaded 36 exposure cartridges. (20 preloaded rolls $97.80, 100ft. bulk TX 99.95)

However HP5 in 100ft. bulk is only $54.90 so after buying 20 empty plastic cartridges for $25 and a LLoyds loader for $25 (the only one still available from B&H) the initial outlay would be slightly higher than 20 preloaded carts at $95. After that, since, if you keep them very clean, the cartridges can be reused many times as can the loader then of course you could bring down the price and save perhaps 40% overall. I think the high price on bulk TX is Kodak's way of killing off demand so they can eliminate one more item from their film catalog. Why don't they just quit the film business outright and stop dinking around with prices.

I think I'm switching to Ilford soon. They seem much more interested in keep film photography affordable and alive and are more interested in what their customers think.

Nigel · « **Reply #31 on:** December 24, 2014, 07:47:00 PM »

So, my research continues.

At B&H :

36exp - $4.89 (way cheaper than the UK, but we'll gloss over that

)
30.5m - $99.95

On the basis we can get 20 rolls from 30.5m that's $4.99 / roll, cheaper than the UK but still more than just buying the cassettes - or am I doing something wrong?

Jon - we posted at the same time. I just don't see the point of bulk loading tri-x even at US prices.

John Robison · « **Reply #32 on:** December 24, 2014, 08:08:26 PM »

Quote from: Nigel on December 24, 2014, 07:47:00 PM

Jon - we posted at the same time. I just don't see the point of bulk loading tri-x even at US prices.

I agree, that was my point. I have not bought TX bulk since their prices went over $65 for 100ft. As of now any bulk 35mm I buy will either be Ilford or I might take a chance on Kentmere for only $39.95 (although I'd have to buy 8 reloadable carts so the order would be over $49 and I get free ground shipping. What can I say, I'm cheap.

Nigel · « **Reply #33 on:** December 24, 2014, 08:12:49 PM »

Here's a good video showing how to load the Watson loader.

Bulk Loading Film Video 2 of 2, Daylight Loading Systems

jharr · « **Reply #34 on:** December 24, 2014, 08:18:15 PM »

So, for 'fresh' film, the economy may not be there, but I can get expired 35mm CN or b/w microfilm for 18 - 25 cents a foot. If I go to Costco and ask for their empty cartridges (free), that works out to about $1 for a 36exp roll. The penny pincher in me just can't pass that up. Tri-X will never be cheap again unless you find it long expired, which is still good if you don't mind lower iso and bigger grain (I don't).

Francois · « **Reply #35 on:** December 24, 2014, 09:12:23 PM »

I know I always steer towards what's cheap.
I have a bulk of Arista.EDU Ultra 400. That's pretty good and definitely cheap.
I also got a roll of TXP that I got for a bit over half price because it was out of date... not a big thing for me.

mcduff · « **Reply #36 on:** December 25, 2014, 03:43:18 AM »

Nigel. I get different numbers when I look at bh - whom I have ordered from. And yes by the time it gets to me it costs more - but as the whole order increases by a consistent amount we will ignore it for these calculations...

A roll of fp4 36 is $4.99 us. 100 ft is 50.95. I don't count the cost of my loader - it was not much and will last forever. Let's assume I will need to replace the canisters every now and then. Worst case would be every 6 reloads which averages out to three per 100' roll. That would be another 3 bucks or so as they are cheap. If I add that all up I can get 18 rolls of fp4+ for what 11 would cost.

I was looking at some smena color film from FPP and it is a similar savings.

BTW. I don't shoot ilford because of the savings. Fp4+ is my fave film. I love it in 135 and adore it in 120. So I am lucky my fav film is a good price in bulk!!

timor · « **Reply #37 on:** December 25, 2014, 06:02:23 AM »

Quote from: John Robison on December 24, 2014, 07:46:00 PM

For some reason I cannot see the savings. Except with Ilford films perhaps. Here in the US 100ft. of bulk Tri-X is actually a little more than 20 preloaded 36 exposure cartridges. (20 preloaded rolls $97.80, 100ft. bulk TX 99.95)

However HP5 in 100ft. bulk is only $54.90

Yes, you can't, but for good reason. Control over Kodak film production was transferred to some British consortium. No wonder they are jacking up the prices, sooner Kodak film disappears, sooner Ilford be the king. And we will be stuck with increasingly weaker product. We might also see 15 000 ex-Kodak British employees left without pension.
Disparity of prices are right now even greater. Freestyle bulk TX is $105 , 17 36-exposure rolls cost $80. HP5 bulk $65 17 (/36 exp) $95.

mcduff · « **Reply #38 on:** December 25, 2014, 02:31:44 PM »

While I have been wasting film for decades, I have just got off my arse and started loading. For those who can remember back: when did kodak become expensive to bulk load?

For the fellow non-Americans amongst us: I often buy at bh and accept the shipping costs, but "Film photography project" have lots of interesting films and I believe their international shipping is reasonable. Now their fp4 is 60 bucks per roll vs 51. But that could be offset by cheaper shipping.

02Pilot · « **Reply #39 on:** December 25, 2014, 04:13:09 PM »

Quote from: mcduff on December 25, 2014, 02:31:44 PM

While I have been wasting film for decades, I have just got off my arse and started loading. For those who can remember back: when did kodak become expensive to bulk load?

For the fellow non-Americans amongst us: I often buy at bh and accept the shipping costs, but "Film photography project" have lots of interesting films and I believe their international shipping is reasonable. Now their fp4 is 60 bucks per roll vs 51. But that could be offset by cheaper shipping.

Tri-X bulk rolls only jumped in price within the last couple of years. I contacted their management directly and received a courteous but somewhat uninformative reply that basically suggested that demand for bulk rolls was low. I took this to mean that they would prefer to further rationalize their production toward higher volume products (pre-rolled) and are pricing to drive the market that way.

I've got a couple hundred feet of Tri-X in the freezer, but I've already decided that future bulk loads will be Ilford - there's no way to justify the price difference when I'm perfectly happy with HP5+ in place of Tri-X.

Francois · « **Reply #40 on:** December 25, 2014, 04:17:34 PM »

HP5 was considered the British Tri-X

SLVR · « **Reply #41 on:** December 27, 2014, 07:00:26 PM »

The price of bulk Tri-X is disgusting. Considering HP5+ is almost half the price! I still like tri-X more though

.

Francois · « **Reply #42 on:** December 27, 2014, 08:47:08 PM »

I think HP5's look is more dependent on the way you soup it than Tri-X...

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #43 on:** January 04, 2015, 08:37:31 AM »

I started rolling my own in just the last couple of years. I first bought Kentmere 100 for something like $40 per 100 feet, but it wasn't available the last time I went shopping, so I picked up (my preferred) FP4+ for it looks like just shy of $52 per 100 feet. I've had intermittent success with Amazon picking up the shipping cost.

Though I prefer to throw my dollars at Ilford, I have to admit, Fuji Acros 100 is pretty incredible film, and I would shoot that if I could get it in bulk. Interestingly, it's only available in cassettes since '07, so maybe the big shops have figured something out about their production lines or profit margins.

Speaking of Fuji and reloading, I ~~need~~ want one of these:

Fujifilm leader trimmer by tokyo camera style, on Flickr

Francois, I think there's a niche market to be had if you fired up a Kickstarter.

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #44 on:** January 04, 2015, 08:49:18 AM »

...and on that front, how about shooting 70mm?

https://mrmarcmorel.wordpress.com/2011/04/02/70mm-workflow-or-how-to-manage-when-someone-gives-you-a-decades-supply-of-aerial-mapping-film/

Turns out I already have the reel:

http://instagram.com/p/s_VMISAmYY

...but talk about the changing bag sweats, it would certainly take some meditation to spool 15' of film.

Kayos · « **Reply #45 on:** January 04, 2015, 09:06:21 AM »

I have so far resisted rolling my own film, but I found a 30.5m roll of Rollei Retro 400s for £37.95

As I don't think it's fair to include the cost of the loader or the cassettes it does make the film very cheap

Francois · « **Reply #46 on:** January 04, 2015, 03:02:27 PM »

Quote from: Jack Johnson on January 04, 2015, 08:37:31 AM

Speaking of Fuji and reloading, I ~~need~~ want one of these:

Fujifilm leader trimmer by tokyo camera style, on Flickr

Francois, I think there's a niche market to be had if you fired up a Kickstarter.

These are as rare as hens teeth!
I did make one out of aluminum and a piece of laminate floor a few years ago. It works but the xacto tends to wear out the aluminum and you loose precision.

I know Prinz used to make a pretty good template for long leaders. Leica also made one called the ablon...just check out the price on evilbay...make sure you're well seated before...

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Author Topic: Refillable cassettes (Read 11620 times)

Terry

Terry