Topic: Advice on buying a 5x4 camera

[David A-W]

I think it's time I made the leap to a 5x4 field camera. I've really enjoyed using my Harman Titan so have 5x4 film holders and can develop film at home using the Mod54 device.

I want to use it to take majestic photographs of ordinary subjects - as much for still-life as for landscapes.

Having looked around, the obvious candidates seem to be from manufacturers such as Wista, Shen Hao or Chamonix. I'm not clear on their differences or whether any would be substantially preferable so would like some advice from those who have experience. I'll be looking at a second-hand buy rather than new, so may be driven by availability as much as anything else.

I'm also unsure about lenses. I would want to start with just the one, so a 150mm ish seems to be a sensible starting point, but again unsure about the differences between different makes and, again, whether those differences are material or not.

Many thanks for any shared experience.

[soeren]

Do you have a budget?
I think Chamonix is a good choice. I dare to say that you almost cant go wrong when it comes to the lens. Schneider, Fuji, Kodak and Nikor just to name a few are  pretty decent lenses. Lens material? Metal and glass.

Best regards

[ManuelL]

Hi David,

I made the same step from the Harman 4x5 last year and bought a Chamonix. I think there is not one good camera, but every one has its advantages and disadvantages.

The Chamonix is very light weight, has a small packing size and I love to take it to the field. The downside is that the alignment is not very precise and it is easier to accidentally change a standard. This would probably not happen with a metal camera like the Technika, but then again I probably wouldn't take the camera out that often if it was some pounds heavier. With heavier metal cameras you may also need to take a heavier, more stable tripod. For the Chamonix I am using a standard Tripod (Manfrotto) with ball head.

Apart from the weight the bellows extension and movements may be an important consideration. If you want are planning to do macro shots, you should take a camera that has a longer bellows extension, even if you have a moderately long lens. For the Chamonix, if I want to focus closely with a 210mm I am getting quite close to the full extension. With a 300mm it is not possible to focus more closely than a few feet.

Another point to consider may be the compatibility with other systems. I would stay with a camera that uses a common holder and lens board size (Graflex, Toyo, Linhof...). There are some very cheap Eastern German cameras on eBay that are of good quality, but not compatible to any other systems. I would stay away from those.

If you are shooting indoors without a lot of light, lenses with F8 or more wide open can be very dark and difficult to focus. For landscape photography under daylight conditions it is not a problem to have a Lens  with F8 as maximum aperture. I am using some older lenses (probably from the 60s). The only problem I have notice so far is that I get some heavy lensflares when shooting into the light (I did some night shots with street lamps in the image and it looked like a UFO attack on the sheet). The newer multi coated lenses may be better in that respect.

Best regards
Manuel

[Sandeha Lynch]

For a touch of majesty with still lifes you'll want a decent amount of movement on the front - forward and rear tilts, and swings, and perhaps a little rise and fall.  Most field cameras have these in abundance.  Get hold of a decent large format textbook if you're unsure the differences that these make - Stroebel's is a good one, but there are others.

If you want to take selective focus/defocus further you'll be wanting an equal amount of movement on the rear as well, and some fields have very little movement on the rear end, primarly because they've been designed for portability out and about in the landscape. 

Can hardly go wrong with a Chamonix, if it's within your price range, ditto a Shen-Hao which you can possibly find cheaper.  With older Wistas condition may count for much since screws can come loose in their sockets, etc.

I started with the first lens I happened to get hold of.  That turned out to be a 135/4.5 Tessar from 1930, which I still use, though not as much as my 150/6.8 from 1910.

[Blaxton]

David,

I am a big fan of metal on a field camera.  When there is any kind of wind, the extra stability of metal standards is worth the extra weight.  I have several 4x5s and one 8x10.  The camera that I use the most is a crown graphic that I modified—mostly removing extraneous stuff, like the rangefinder and the view finder. The bellows is long enough for 1:1 reproduction with my favorite lens, a 150mm g-claron.  Movements require time consuming work-arounds but most are possible, one way or another.  I haven't ever passed on a shot because of lack of movements.  I love it that several lenses I use with it can stay on the camera, fully folded.  My whole kit (camera, five lenses, two roll film backs, eight film holders, filters, meter, focusing loupe, spirit level, dark cloth) fits nicely in a small backpack weighing about fifteen pounds.  The camera cost, if I remember correctly, $200 on ebay.  It came with a dodgy lens but I have since converted it to a pinhole shutter.

[Late Developer]

A word of caution....with no intention of being at all negative (definitely no pun intended)

A couple of years ago, I felt something along the lines of your initial comment - i.e. high time I gave 5x4 a go.  So, after a bit of camera trading and a few bob from a bonus I'd earned at work, I bought a lovely Wista with a 150mm lens = all the paraphernalia necessary. To be fair, I hadn't tried pinhole or anything else previously and I wasn't geared up to develop my own negatives. However, I really struggled with it. Buggering about with dark cloths, focusing upside down and back to front, getting the rise, fall, tilt and swing right and loading / unloading dark slides eventually got to me to the point where I reverted to medium format and disposed of the Wista, etc.

In my opinion, LF photography is mostly about a state of mind and a level of patience and dexterity I didn't (and probably never will) possess.

If you look at the work done on FW by the likes of Leon Taylor and Paul Mitchell (to name but two) the end results can be phenomenal.  Breathtaking. Therefore, so long as you've though longer and harder than I did and you don't have any problem working very slowly and painstakingly, I wish you the greatest success.  It's a fantastic medium.

[DonkeyDave]

As you know there are 3 main types: monorail, press, field.
If you are shooting landscapes then I'd discount monorail straight away, it can be done, they are cheap and reliable, with great movements - but very unwieldy. The field cameras come in wood and metal varieties, I think the difference in weight is negligible once you consider the dark slides, lenses, dark cloth, light meter etc.  The wood versions tend to be less sturdy, but any 54 is going to be a challenge in  a gale.  The metal versions tend to bd quick to set up and they fold to a compact size. Linhof technika IV and above are the ones to look for.
The press cameras are underrated, a graflex has all the movements you need for landscape, I've never struggled. They are robust, plentiful and  cheap.  It's a good idea to have a back that will allow use of roll film holders. The graflex can be easily modified to get front swing. Most press cameras will have fixed rear standards which limit architecture  and close up work.
Any coated lens is likely to be excellent, just check the shutters work ok. There are lots of cheap lenses without shutters, watch out for these unless you have worked out how to cope with them.

[Francois]

Lenses without shutters are called barrel lenses. They were made for either very old cameras or for the Graflex Speed Graphic. The Speed graphic has a focal plane shutter which can be wonderful when it works and a pain when it doesn't.

Lens wise, the Graphex lenses are usually quite cheap and their shutters very reliable for their venerable age.

I think the "press camera" can be considered as one of the best entry points into large format. They're usually cheap and plentiful, just watch out for the condition of the bellows.
If you plan on using a long lens for close-up work, you'll have to use a rare conical lens board with those.

If you don't mind carrying a case with the camera in it, view cameras can do everything... they just aren't that compact.

For the darkcloth, think black t-shirt worn the wrong way around. You look pretty lame with it but it works wonders.

[KevinAllan]

 There are some very cheap Eastern German cameras on eBay that are of good quality, but not compatible to any other systems. I would stay away from those.


Best regards
Manuel

Manuel, for the benefit of those who might make this mistake in future, what brands were you thinking of ?

Kevin

[ManuelL]

 There are some very cheap Eastern German cameras on eBay that are of good quality, but not compatible to any other systems. I would stay away from those.


Best regards
Manuel

Manuel, for the benefit of those who might make this mistake in future, what brands were you thinking of ?

Kevin

Sorry, I was mistaken with the format. It was the Mentor cameras that are not compatible with other systems, but all I could find now were in 13x18cm format. I had come across them as I had also been looking into the possibility of a 5x7 camera, but then found some advice at other forums that they are not compatible. From the quality they seem to be quite good though and usually come with Zeiss (Jena) lenses.

[Francois]

Large format cameras being modular, it's often quite easy to modify them to accept different parts... especially when it comes to monorails.

[Andrej K]

Beware, the mentors are REALLY heavy, even in LF standards.
Do not discount a monorail. some, like the Sinar Norma, can be packed to quite a compact package. And aren't that heavy. But they are a joy to use, especially for a beginner who needs to find his way around the movements and all. I think it is FAR easier with a good monorail than with some (not all) folding wooden field cameras. If you buy cheaply, you won't loose any money in the attempt.

Anyway, I have to second Paul's warnings. Photographing with LF is something completely different than with medium format. Your best bet would be to find a buddy, go out with him and try it for yourself before you plunge into buying all the necessary paraphernalia - larger tripods, backpacks, holders, lenses, developing "hardware" etc. I don't mean to discourage you, LF IS fantastic and I wish I had enough time to use it far more, but it really needs a strong commitment and a lot of time and patience.

One last word - since you've been looking at 5x7in/13x18cm format - I would like to advice you to consider this format also. There is not THAT much difference in either weight or price of the setup, but the slightly larger format is more comfortable to use. You would just see the things better on the larger ground glass. In my experience it is really much much easier to see the actual effect of the movements on the larger glass and there is much more sense in making contact prints - be it even simple cyanotypes or just contact prints on Azo / Fomalux with a lightbulb as lightsource.

[David A-W]

Sage and informed views all - most helpful, thanks.

I think for now I'll pay heed to the sensible thoughts of Paul and Andrej and stick with my Harman Titan for 5x4. I'll stick to one camera, one pinhole for this format I think.

In the meantime I'll ponder your comments and look forward to enjoying the fine work produced by others in this format.

[Phil Bebbington]

I have no useful advice other than, take your time. Stepping back can be a good thing (wish I knew how) Some time ago I plunged into the 5X4 pool, probably before I was ready. I mean, I'm not even developing my own 120 I bought a beautiful old Linhof which weighs a ton. I won't get rid of it as I am still really keen on getting into it, but, I should have taken it more slowly. The Linhof is as solid as a rock and your feel like you are using quality, but, it is heavy. On a filmwasters day out I saw Paul's Chamonix and was impressed - so damn light as well.

[DonkeyDave]

I love my Linhof

a good 'way in' is to use a roll film back, much easier to process than sheet film, and if you get a 6x9 or 6x12 back you are still getting the advantage of a large film area