Topic: Polaroid TLR - old news?

[LT]

<a href="http://vimeo.com/52979229">Polaroid TLR Prototype</a>

[Urban Hafner]

I hadn't seen the video but I've already seen a few pictures. Very nice idea.

"To be released as a build-it-yourself kit ... in the near or possibly distant future." How specific

[Ezzie]

I saw it a while ago. Would love if he really did go ahead and Kickstart it. It combines two of my favourite camera technologies, instant film and twin lens reflex. Looks to be very nicely engineered.

[Francois]

He actually could get it made on a cut on demand service like Ponoko and separately deliver the bellows, ground glass and other parts.

[SLVR]

I wonder how they plan to release the build it yourself kit. Like they ship out the parts, or give you the list of everything you will need and a template to make each part. If its the latter i have a friend making his own cnc machine who im sure would love to use it to test this out!

[sapata]

I posted sometime ago here Leon, must be the same... there are some pics from the kit.
http://www.filmwasters.com/forum/index.php?topic=5628.msg66695#msg66695

[Phil Bebbington]

Excellent! There are some bloody clever people out there.

[ChristopherCoy]

Excellent! There are some bloody clever people out there.

And its pretty safe to say that I am not one of them! LOL! Although I am completely envious of this fellow!

[kkado]

I registered just to make this post and to answer a few questions:

a) The project will be submitted to Kickstarter hopefully later this month. I'm hoping to make at least 50 copies.

b) The parts will be laser cut, and all of the light seal channels, bevels, etc, will be routed by hand. The kit would include the ground glass, mirror, and assorted hardware. You'd need to include a lens and Polaroid back or roll film back (Graflex type), though.

c) You would need to fold the bellows yourself. Really not a hard task at all! Plus, you'd get to channel your inner origami master.


A second prototype has already been completed, photos on Flickr (hopefully in my sig). Did I mention that it accepts roll film, too? I would love to field some questions, if there are any

[ChristopherCoy]

I would love to field some questions, if there are any

How soon can we buy one?


And welcome to FW!

[Urban Hafner]

Great that you're pursuing this. Please keep us posted as I'm a big fan of TLRs (of any size). It would be great if this could happen before Fuji stops making peel-apart film.

Am I right that the design requires a Mamiya TLR lens?

[Ezzie]

50 pieces? I think you will be shifting those very quickly, at least if all those that have oooh'ed and aaaah'ed over the prototypes put the money where their mouths are. I would be one of them.

I suppose the choice of Mamiya TLR lenses is a prudent one. Good coverage, and of course you need not dismantle an otherwise fine camera to get a pair.

[Alan]

I told myself I wouldnt get anymore gear this year . . .

this might move the goalposts !

A few questions?

I understand a Mamiya TLR c or D lens will have to be used. I watched
your videos on the camera and on the lens mod but after the lens has been modded or dismantled
is it a "plug and play" fit to the camera body? will there be a need for the buyer to mod the camera
in order for the lens to fit?

Will you be supplying a list of compatible lenses? 105mm, 135mm, 180mm etc.

Same applies for the film/instant film back, will there be a need for modification to the camera body to fit
the instant or film backs?
are they "plug and play"?

is there a preferred film and instant back?

thanks in advance, Alan

[Francois]

I don't know if there's any chance that there could be the possibility to fit a 4x5 back?

[kkado]

Not too sure about a 4x5 back, dimensions-wise it would be difficult to fit. The lenses also definitely would not cover the whole frame, either.

After separating the lenses, they simply screw onto the front standard like any other lens board. If you use a different lens, there is a good chance that you will need to make modifications.

As for the Polaroid back, there are just a couple of latches to unscrew, and a wooden mounting adapter is glued on (your choice of making it permanent or not). Roll film backs would fit as they usually do on a Graflex back.

All of the Mamiya 105mm f3.5 lenses work (there are 4 variations). The tessar variants cover the whole Polaroid frame. The heliar variants have some vignetting but much higher contrast and would be better for roll film up to 6x9. Lenses with a flange-film distance of 95-105mm seem to work the best

The preferred Polaroid back is the Mamiya type 80, used for the RB67 and Press/Universal.

I'm aiming for April or May as the shipping date if the Kickstarter is successful - fingers crossed that peel aparts will still be available by then!

[ChristopherCoy]

Not to sidetrack, but you speak as if FP100c is in imminent danger. Just wondering if you've heard something that I haven't.

[kkado]

Not at all, I've only heard mumblings about FP3000B but nothing definitive. Here's hoping that they're both around for years to come.

[tkmedia]

10.5cm f/3.5 - Seikosha-MX
105mm f/3.5 - Seikosha-S
105mm f/3.5 D - Seiko
105mm f/3.5 DS - Seiko

[Urban Hafner]

The Kickstarter project is live: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/71185779/duo-a-diy-twin-lens-reflex-camera-for-instant-film I really am tempted. I will have to think about it for a few days ...

[Ezzie]

I put in my pledge for the basic version with roll film adapter. Only 9723 dollars to go.

[Urban Hafner]

That's what I'm thinking, too. The deluxe version doesn't seem to add that much to be worth an additional $100.

[kkado]

That's what I'm thinking, too. The deluxe version doesn't seem to add that much to be worth an additional $100.

Agreed, the stainless knob and included roll film adapter aren't very enticing. But the main difference between the basic and deluxe versions is the addition of custom engravings - if you wanted to personalize it with text, or a different engraving on the VF hood. The main thing driving up the price here is that raster engraving requires a lot of laser time, and I would have to individually create and add each engraving. So it's more of personalization than a value-added thing I should make that more clear in the pledge descriptions.

[Alan]

Hi Kevin,

Congratulations on this new step in your venture, I hope it is successful for you!

I viewed the kickstarter page and I have to say your presentation is excellent.
I  was shocked to see the price of the "Basic Duo Kit", IMO it is very reasonable,
and I was expecting the price to be higher.

I suppose taking everything into consideration, Development time, assembly, waste,
more development time, more assembly, testing, manufacture etc.
it is very reasonable and of course you have to make a buck or two from the project !

I am so very close to commiting to a Basic kit !! very close !

A few questions, no biggies but,

*have you considered a facility to attach a cable release?

*is there a facility to attach the camera to a tripod?

[maybe these questions are answered somewhere, I may have missed them - apologies]

*would it be possible to assemble the camera without the glue, I see you mention there are screws supplied?
  what im thinking is parts replacement for future damages, wear etc.

Alan

[kkado]

@Alan,

Hmm, I have not really thought about a cable release, but I think it would be easy to implement. Maybe a small unit that can clamp on to the front standard near the shutter lever. Definitely something I'll have to consider!

There is a 1/4"-20 standard sized nut to screw into a tripod or quick release.

Just about all of the camera body is glued together, however, the lenses and Polaroid back/roll film back can be removed freely. I'm sure there would be a way to construct the camera without glue, but it would likely be much more labor intensive, and the joints would not be as strong. I wouldn't worry too much about damage or wear. My first prototype has been thrown in overhead compartments, subjected to flying gravel, dirt, taken a roll in the sand and salt spray, and still looks fine. Further down the line, you may need to refinish it, but replacing parts due to wear/tear shouldn't be an issue.

[Alan]

Thanks for the reply Kevin,

looks like its going to be a funner - 42 backers so far !

[ChristopherCoy]

I just watched the KickStarter video, and I'm definitely intrigued. I've been contemplating a camera building project for this year anyway.

My question is for those of you who have pledged already. Do you already own the lens and backs, or do you plan on purchasing them?

[Urban Hafner]

I don't have a back nor a lens right now.

[ChristopherCoy]

That's my concern - finding a back and a set of lenses, at a price that isn't completely ridiculous.

[Alan]

I just watched the KickStarter video, and I'm definitely intrigued. I've been contemplating a camera building project for this year anyway.

My question is for those of you who have pledged already. Do you already own the lens and backs, or do you plan on purchasing them?

Well i have been looking around and imo the main stumbling block is sourcing the lens and back... there are lots of 80mm and 135mm lenses. There are lots of backs without the 3.25 x 4.25 conversion? Am i missing something?

Sent from my HUAWEI U8815 using Tapatalk 2

[moominsean]

I told myself i was done buying cameras for awhile, but this i had to buy. Just need to get a lens at some point. I assume you can use any mamiya twin lens setup...i see some 50mm and 65mm sets on ebay for decent prices.

Quick question...does it come with the exterior unpainted? Because i prefer the wood to the black paint!

[jojonas~]

I told myself i was done buying cameras for awhile, but this i had to buy. Just need to get a lens at some point. I assume you can use any mamiya twin lens setup...i see some 50mm and 65mm sets on ebay for decent prices.

Quick question...does it come with the exterior unpainted? Because i prefer the wood to the black paint!

you might get some nice vignetting with those lenses. I think I read on the blog for the project about using other lenses and their image circles.

[Alan]

I told myself i was done buying cameras for awhile, but this i had to buy. Just need to get a lens at some point. I assume you can use any mamiya twin lens setup...i see some 50mm and 65mm sets on ebay for decent prices.

Quick question...does it come with the exterior unpainted? Because i prefer the wood to the black paint!

you might get some nice vignetting with those lenses. I think I read on the blog for the project about using other lenses and their image circles.

The only lens Kevin tested was the 105mm

""I haven't done extensive testing, but as far as I know, the answer to your first question is no. The 55mm f/4.5 and 80mm f/2.8 fall far short of covering 3x4 Polaroids. The simpler telephoto designs might have better coverage but I can't say for sure.

The Press lenses would probably be fantastic on a TLR, but the problem of finding a pair of lenses is unfortunately prohibitively expensive for the scope of this project. Moreover, since both lenses would be in shutters, it would be larger and heavier (I admit, however, that that would look awesome and more Gowlandflex-esque). Using two 100mm f/2.8 Press lenses would be the ultimate version of this camera, for sure. Definitely food for thought!""

from > http://duo-tlr.blogspot.ie/2013/01/selecting-lens.html

[kkado]

I just watched the KickStarter video, and I'm definitely intrigued. I've been contemplating a camera building project for this year anyway.

My question is for those of you who have pledged already. Do you already own the lens and backs, or do you plan on purchasing them?

Well i have been looking around and imo the main stumbling block is sourcing the lens and back... there are lots of 80mm and 135mm lenses. There are lots of backs without the 3.25 x 4.25 conversion? Am i missing something?

Sent from my HUAWEI U8815 using Tapatalk 2

The Universal Press backs natively shoot in 3.25x4.25. Third party backs may have masks for 6x7 or 6x6, and those adapted for the RB67 sometimes are fitted with a "P" adapter that looks like a square 6x6 mask (but it pops off easily).

I told myself i was done buying cameras for awhile, but this i had to buy. Just need to get a lens at some point. I assume you can use any mamiya twin lens setup...i see some 50mm and 65mm sets on ebay for decent prices.

Quick question...does it come with the exterior unpainted? Because i prefer the wood to the black paint!

All of the wooden pieces are unpainted and totally unfinished. I also prefer the natural finish, I just couldn't resist trying another finish

I told myself i was done buying cameras for awhile, but this i had to buy. Just need to get a lens at some point. I assume you can use any mamiya twin lens setup...i see some 50mm and 65mm sets on ebay for decent prices.

Quick question...does it come with the exterior unpainted? Because i prefer the wood to the black paint!

you might get some nice vignetting with those lenses. I think I read on the blog for the project about using other lenses and their image circles.

This is correct - the camera was designed with solely the 105mm in mind. That is not to say that other lenses might not work. The 135mm is the only other lens I can think of that might work, with limited close focus, however. The 55mm and 80mm will definitely have vignetting (and the flange-film distance is much too small to avoid interference with the mirror - which is much larger to accommodate the big VF).

[kkado]

That's my concern - finding a back and a set of lenses, at a price that isn't completely ridiculous.

Agreed. I think the lenses are easier to source, since they are more prevalent and all four variations will work. The backs are more problematic as there are MANY more variations, not all of which will work.

I'm currently exploring the option of using Polaroid 600SE backs, since they are more or less identical, minus the two little mounting claws (which get removed anyway). I'm 99.9% certain that they'll work, but I just bought one to check. Once it's confirmed I'll add that information to the KS page and the blog. If anyone has any information on differences between the Universal Press and 600SE backs, I'm all ears!

[Ezzie]

I have had an easy time finding backs for my 110A/6 0 0 S E conversion. Tony Sansone quite often has some available. Same as for the Mamiya versions, you need only take the claws/feet off to mount to the Duo. In fact the shape of the claws is the only difference between the two. So look for CB100 through 103 for Polaroid 600SE in your searches, not just the Mamiya versions.

[Alan]

Ok, I have to admit, this is all new to me, regarding polaroid backs etc.

There are a few polaroid 103 backs on ebay allright.

Now, am i right in saying that in order to use a film back on the Duo I will need,
1] a film back i.e from a Mamiya RB67
2] a mamiya press P adapter

?

[Ezzie]

If I understand this correctly, and the back in reality is a CB100/101 or 103, then the P adapter is what makes it compatible with an RB67. In other words the P adapter needs removing, it is surplus to your needs. But the reason Kevin has mentioned them is most likely to increase the probability of finding a back, many may be found as adapted for the RB67 and therefore easily overlooked.

The companion blog describes how to identify a CB100/101 or 103 lurking underneath the cloak of a removable P adapter.

[tkmedia]

i hear some folks have received their kits.

[Urban Hafner]

Yes, I've had mine for a few weeks. Still no time to build it though. However Sean has built his. Maybe he can give us a short review.

[Ezzie]

I got mine more than a month ago (pledge no 1), but have yet to build it. Been busy renovating and insulating our summer cabin (so it can be used in winter too).

That and I have yet to decide on a colour scheme for the camera, I want to paint a number of the panels  before putting it together. Green and cream? Cherry red and black? Orange and black? Or just plain Jane unstained?

[zapsnaps]

Ezzie: Cherry red & black. And please post a photo of it once completed.

I really wanted one of these, but decided that I didn't have the skill to build it. It was the bellows folding which finally made me come to my senses. So I'll just enjoy looking at others!

[Chalky]

Really looking forward to seeing some built!

[tkmedia]

would be perfect to record building for podcast!

[moominsean]

I just have to do the final gluing of the bellows to the front body. Been busy with other stuff. Quick review, the thing is huge and not particularly portable, probably more fun to build than to use.

[Ezzie]

I must say I could not be bothered documenting my build. Kevin has done that rather extensively himself.

I too more or less have just fixing the bellows before it can be used. I should probably voice my not so good impressions (though outweighed by the positive) to Kevin himself, before going on about them here. But here goes.

I think the front standard has little purchase when being glued to the sidewalls/runners. There is room for better bracing and a more substantial contact. As it is it feels flimsy.

The same applies to the WLF lid. Mine warped when glueing.

I would also have used a more substantial material for the WLF hood, Tyvek may be tougher than nails (I know, I've used a variant for housebuilding) it will never, ever rip. But it is thin and flimsy, just doesn't feel right for a WLF. An easy mod, one which I will be doing soon methinks.

A catch to keep the WLF lid closed would also be a good idea. I will shop around for one when I have time.

And I would have made the depression for the taking lens a bit bigger (taller/wider). My fingers are not the biggest, by I find it finickety to operate the levers et al on my standard black lens (not D or DS mode) as is.

Apart from that the kit is very well thought out. Very sturdy body and yet light weight. The viewfinder is big (very big), though not very bright - but no worse than my Rollei. Good job on engraving parallax guidelines and 6x9 roll film frames. Much appreciated.

All in all I look forward to testing it.

[Alan]

i was very close to buying one of these.
opted out as i was a bit fearful of not getting a lens to suit.

anyway it would be nice to get some test results . . .

and maybe a FULL review of the build etc. for the articles board 

[Francois]

Stick-on refrigerator magnet strips might be a nice way to keep the WLF closed.

[moominsean]

Nah I have the same problem. It just doesn't quite close all the way.

The biggest issue i had was with calibration. The two lenses were waaaay off, i had to glue the top lens in place from the back because there wasn't any thread left in the position that was required for dual focus.

I still haven't done the final gluing of the bellow to the front...

[Ezzie]

Strange, mine needed no calibration at all, I did however keep the shims that were in place on the original lens board. One rather thick for the taking lens, and two very thin for the viewing lens. My biggest issue is really the standard. It is just not sturdy enough. OK, the setup focuses past infinity, so may not be too much of an issue, but when drawing the standard all the way in the pressure from the bellows will push the top of the standard outwards. Another issue, maybe not initially, but eventually, is that I foresee the gears getting stripped. In order to keep the standard upright(isn, as I mentioned it will not if put under pressure) the sliders need to be a tight fit. The resulting friction puts strain on the nylon gears.

Managed to solder up the PC-flash connector too, I do like Polaroid flash photography (for some reason)

I´ve in fact just finished it, at least to a point where it will take pictures. But I´ll wait taking pictures of it (and with it) when the sun rises in the morn. Now: Beddy byes.

[Francois]

Since it is entirely made out of wood, dimensional changes with humidity could be expected...