Author Topic: Need to get up to speed on Medium format fast! (Read 7043 times)

SLVR · « **on:** October 11, 2012, 04:53:58 PM »

So there is a HUGE annual buy and sell expo in toronto this weekend. Ive been told by some that you can get very good deals on just about everything.

Ive been gunning for a nice medium format SLR but around my area bodies alone go for at least $500. I'm told that i could get a nice kit for 500 or less from this expo. So i'm asking what should i be looking for? I'm thinking the Bronica Zenza only because ive seen good stuff here from it and it seems to be hailed as a decently priced camera. But are there any other gem medium format cameras that would be comparable or better? I just dont want to go there looking for the Zenza and overlook a gem not knowing what it is, likewise i dont want to get stiffed because i jumped too soon on a camera!

Any help would be awesome (i know i ask for help a lot

)

MJL · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2012, 05:33:59 PM »

IMHO, you should also consider Pentax 645 or 6X7 and Mamiya if you only want to get a body & lens combo. On the other, I would recommend Hasselblad if you want to build a system with time. There are also more adapters to use the Zeiss lenses on SLR, dSLR or NEX. Good luck!

tkmedia · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2012, 05:45:42 PM »

For SLR what format are you looking for? I written many articles about different MF camera systems. Do you need a system, just lens exchange?

For 6x6 system you can go various flavors of bronicas and hassablad. Cheap the Bronica S series like you mention are generally inexpensive. A more modernized leaf shutter Bronica SQ series could still be a option. Hassy 500 are the cheapest you can get from that brand, but the prices have been getting higher as of late.
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Bronica_6%C3%976_focal_plane

For 6x4,5 format the Bronica ETR series are very cheap, I bought one recently for $100 USD with lens, prism, and backs.
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Bronica_ETR

Mamiya 645 are pretty good as well.

For 6x7 the monster system RB67 from mamiya, a 'smaller' pentax 6x7.
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Mamiya_RB67
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Pentax_67

Any interest in TLR?

SLVR · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2012, 07:01:44 PM »

Im looking to shoot 6x6 on medium format

Lenses are not always important but nice to have the option. If im shooting with an SLR body i kind of assume that they will have interchangeable lenses. Having interchangeable backs is not necessary either but its nice to have the options for the future.

TLR's can be cheap around my parts, but i'm looking for a little more control i think. And TLRs just dont seem like they have many options for them. It would be great to get a body that i can keep expanding. I'm not sure if that's possible while looking for a deal but a body and back with a couple lenses would be great for me for starters.

I'll check the links, thanks tkmedia! Are there any cameras i should stay away from reliabilitywise? or are there common things that go on certain cameras to watch for?

Francois · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2012, 09:04:38 PM »

The Bronica S2 is a bit unreliable. But the S2A is OK. But to make things simple, at one point, they decided to switch the name back from S2A to S2. Very confusing, but there's a way to tell them apart. You just write the serial number 150037 on a piece of paper that you stick in your wallet. Any Bronica S2 or S2A with a serial number above that should be reliable.

Alan · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2012, 10:38:11 PM »

Well I can vouch for both the Bronica Etrs and Mamiya 645 systems
and would recommend the mamiya over the bronica.

physically the mamiya body seems more robust and the bronica body felt
cheap.

i didnt like the idea of the lenses having shutters because I have read elswhere
that those seiko shutters can give trouble.
i also didnt fancy having to get my lenses serviced every so often.

I am currently using the Mamiya 645 Super, this was the first 645 body from the
second generation family. all the lenses from the previous generation will work and the
all the interchangeable backs, prisms and grips from the later Pro and ProTL models
can also be used. Most of the standard prime lenses in the range take 58mm filters
which is really nice and handy.

A lot of people skip the 645 format and go instead for the 6x7 larger format but I find
the hardware prices a lot higher for the larger gear.

The really nice thing about the medium format SLR gear is that they are modular systems.

To start off with all you really need is a body, film back, lens, winder and prism and as
you get used to it you can be on the look out for extra bits like, 120, 220, 135 and polaroid backs,
grips, lenses, screens, prisms and cable releases.

Personally I would go for the Mamiya over the pentax and bronica! I remember doing a lot
of research on the 645 systems before I bought into them and I figured the Mamiya was the
way to go and while the Pentax has KILLER optics the mamiya I felt was the most modular.

Here is a handy resource for the Mamiya > http://www.photo-phil.org/Mamiya.pdf

I hope this helps. $:-\$

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #6 on:** October 12, 2012, 06:52:03 AM »

If I want super-macro or super-telephoto then, for me, and for lots of little reasons, 35mm wins out as a system. If, however, I want a bit of glorious tonality in the street, then it's 6x6 for its simplicity, lightness, angle of view, etc, etc. A good one-lens Rolleiflex seems to do everything.

tkmedia · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2012, 08:56:08 AM »

I hope you are aware Alan that there are two model cameras from Bronica called ETRS, a solid metal one and a metal one that is surrounded by plastic.

Any spanner chucked in to confuse, have you though of maybe the Mamiya C series TLR system? It does have interchangeable lenses and shoot 6x6.

SLVR · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2012, 03:22:08 PM »

I could never get my head around the witchcraft of composing with a TLR. I have used my Yashica A with 35mm and it was hard to get used to. Not impossible, but as i mentioned, i'm looking for something with a little more expandability to build a nice little system over time.

Right now it looks like i should be looking bronica S2A or Newer S2 or Mamiya 645. I'll keep my eyes peeled!

Alan · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2012, 08:54:57 PM »

Quote from: tkmedia on October 12, 2012, 08:56:08 AM

I hope you are aware Alan that there are two model cameras from Bronica called ETRS, a solid metal one and a metal one that is surrounded by plastic.

Any spanner chucked in to confuse, have you though of maybe the Mamiya C series TLR system? It does have interchangeable lenses and shoot 6x6.

i was talking about the later model plastic unit.

Late Developer · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2012, 11:16:01 PM »

If you can get hold of Bronica SQA or SQB bodies with "PS" lenses (in good condition), you cannot go far wrong. They are not pretty to look at but the quality (both build and optical) is hard to match from any manufacturer. The other good news is that they tend to be cheaper than equivalent Hasselblad and Mamiya.

The SQA and SQB models are 6x6 system - which means 12 on a roll of 120 compared to 10 from a 6x7. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mamiya 7 but 20% less photos on a roll means the additional cost adds up over time. If you're looking for a MF system, 6x6 is the way to go, IMO.

Should you need any persuading about their credentials, our very own Paul Mitchell is a great exponent of the Bronica SQA. If he wasn't such a thoroughly nice bloke and wonderful photographer, his exceptional skill with this kit could be more than a tad irritating.....!!

If you're interested in Mamiya 6645 (great kit and often bargain prices) PeterR is the man to look at. These cameras also have the benefit of being very portable due to their modest size and weight. I can't remember the models but try to get one with interchangeable backs. I had a Mamiya 645 1000s (if memory serves) and the main frustration was that the back wasn't interchangeable and you had to use up the whole film before being able to swap between colour and mono, slide and print, etc.

If you see any 55mm Mamiya-Sekor lenses (in good working order) for the Mamiya C3 / C33 / C330 TLR line of cameras for less than $150, I am VERY interested..... That's another option as Mamiya TLRs are extremely good value these days..

Happy hunting and let us know how you get on.

Chris A Fraser · « **Reply #11 on:** October 13, 2012, 12:47:08 AM »

I agree on the SQA. It was the first medium format camera that I ever bought and I still go back to it regularly.

SLVR · « **Reply #12 on:** October 13, 2012, 04:00:40 AM »

Thanks a bunch guys, I'll bring notes with me. Hopefully the people im heading up there with will know a thing or two as well. I'll be sure to post up whatever happens. I may even do a little coverage on the event.

Paul Mitchell · « **Reply #13 on:** October 13, 2012, 01:22:36 PM »

Quote from: Late Developer on October 12, 2012, 11:16:01 PM

Should you need any persuading about their credentials, our very own Paul Mitchell is a great exponent of the Bronica SQA. If he wasn't such a thoroughly nice bloke and wonderful photographer, his exceptional skill with this kit could be more than a tad irritating.....!!

I thought my ears were burning! I do indeed use a Bronica SQA and 'from my cold dead hands' as they say, and if that's not enough our very own esteemed Leon also uses one too! Thanks for the glowing endorsement Paul... off to buy a hat two sizes bigger now!

Paul

SLVR · « **Reply #14 on:** October 14, 2012, 07:18:18 PM »

So who wants to take bets on what was had?

jojonas~ · « **Reply #15 on:** October 14, 2012, 08:01:29 PM »

I'm betting on my home team; Bronica!

SLVR · « **Reply #16 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:47:56 PM »

I FREAKED OUT at this place (hence why i took zero photos). Finding this camera wasnt easy as it wasnt out in the open but im super glad i asked around. I picked up a Bronica SQ-A with non metered prism (could have got a metered one but it was jamming the camera) 80mm 2.8 lens with lens cap for a cool $200! It's a nice camera. I had to carry it around for the rest of the day and apart from a sore arm i got MANY compliments.

I also picked up some film. (there was a TON of it.)

4 rolls Ektachrome 64T 35mm
5 pack of portra 160NC 35mm

and some 120 for the bronica and my holga in the mail
1 provia 400
1 Konica SR-G 160
2 BW400CN
3 Kodak 125PX
1 Agfa Scala (for fun)
1 Ektachrome 160T
1 NPH 400
1 Vericolor III

plus a pack of FP-3000b

Probably paid around 60$ for all that film. Im stoked. Should process the roll from the bronica tonight.

Francois · « **Reply #17 on:** October 14, 2012, 09:55:14 PM »

That looks like a pretty sweet find.
Our camera show is on November 4th... if I'm not too busy and traffic in town is not too bad, I might try and go... it's been years since I last went!

Alan · « **Reply #18 on:** October 14, 2012, 10:24:11 PM »

happy days - great camera at a great price - well done

jojonas~ · « **Reply #19 on:** October 14, 2012, 10:56:37 PM »

cool! it'll be interesting to hear of your adventures with it. and a great stash of film you got too! many interesting rolls there~

Terry · « **Reply #20 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:02:04 PM »

Well done; looks like a very good haul and at a great price. You're going to like that camera!

Late Developer · « **Reply #21 on:** October 14, 2012, 11:05:23 PM »

Cool stash and an exceptionally good buy. You will want to add lenses at some future date. The "S" lenses are excellent but, if you can afford them, the "PS" versions are worth the extra. I had 40mm, 80mm and 150mm. Not a lightweight rig but, in the right hands, very capable of producing fine results.

Congratulations....!!

SLVR · « **Reply #22 on:** October 15, 2012, 03:30:54 AM »

Im really excited to shoot more with the camera. Ive already got quite a handle on how to use it. It will get better once i get a better lightmeter but my shots arent bad at all! I posted them in the weekend thread.

Thank you all so much for helping me out. Also i did hve a guy trying to sell me a mamiya rb67 as soon as i walked in the door but it didnt have the 6x6 back. Pros can be so particular about what's the best!

More great shots to come

tkmedia · « **Reply #23 on:** October 15, 2012, 06:54:14 AM »

That's a darn good price for a SQA. Are you going to get a hand grip? I always find them easier to use with eye level finders. Acquire a better a strap so your arms do not get so tired.

Paul Mitchell · « **Reply #24 on:** October 15, 2012, 09:55:03 AM »

A bargain for sure! My two preferred lenses to compliment the 80mm are the 50 & 150mm. As Paul states the PS lenses are great but if you happen to spot a good S lens grab it.

Paul

Francois · « **Reply #25 on:** October 15, 2012, 01:52:04 PM »

Quote from: TinTin on October 15, 2012, 03:30:54 AM

It will get better once i get a better lightmeter

expomat.tripod.com

SLVR · « **Reply #26 on:** October 15, 2012, 02:40:55 PM »

wow ill have to check out that exposure mat. that looks really cool. It would be great to get more into metering with my eyes rather than metering with a meter.

tkmedia i'll eventually be building up this camera i think. There was an SQ-A there that had the grip, metered prism, 150mm lens, 80mm lens, a 120 and 220 back for 350 but i didnt bring that much cash! (i set my self a budget). Sooner or later I'll get the grip. Right now it doesnt bother me that much without the grip. Doing the double thumb wind was a little weird but not that much different from the Pentax Auto 110 im using right now.

Apart from lenses i want to keep my eyes open for a waist level finder.

It begins...

jojonas~ · « **Reply #27 on:** October 15, 2012, 04:03:49 PM »

Quote from: Francois on October 15, 2012, 01:52:04 PM

Quote from: TinTin on October 15, 2012, 03:30:54 AM
It will get better once i get a better lightmeter
expomat.tripod.com

I always keep one in my pocket. nifty little thing when I don't remember enough sunny 16 and when I'm without my gossen

Late Developer · « **Reply #28 on:** October 15, 2012, 04:26:22 PM »

Quote from: TinTin on October 15, 2012, 02:40:55 PM

Apart from lenses i want to keep my eyes open for a waist level finder.

It begins...

There's a real dearth of WLFs on eBay just now - and the one I found where the auction had ended went for almost £90.

At that price you might be better off bidding for a second body with the WLF attached and then either (a) selling the body minus the WLF to someone who's happy to use a prism or (b) keeping the second body as a back up / having another lens attached to avoid having to swap lenses.

SLVR · « **Reply #29 on:** October 15, 2012, 05:05:56 PM »

I'm in no rush. Sooner or later if i stumble upon some stuff at a garage sale or around the local classifieds.

There is another expo in the spring i believe. I can always get parts and accessories then.

Alan · « **Reply #30 on:** October 15, 2012, 08:36:01 PM »

yup good plan - no rush.
i have been building my mamiya 645 system for over 2 years.
keeping an eye on prices and low auction prices etc.

... another expo

with a population less than 5,000,000 there just isnt a great
amount of used film gear knocking around, i have had to import
nearly everything.

SLVR · « **Reply #31 on:** October 15, 2012, 09:06:53 PM »

At this place there were a lot of local Toronto people but a lot of Americans coming across the border. I think that can help with the better prices on stuff. the one thing that wasnt that great of a price was their fuji peel apart films. $10 a box for expired stuff when BH was selling it at 6.70. I think im getting spoiled though. Still beats paying $25 at most places in canada.

The other great thing about living where I am is there is a very high amount of german immigrants so lots of nice german cameras to be had.

Francois · « **Reply #32 on:** October 15, 2012, 09:46:19 PM »

Makes me laugh just thinking about one of the last camera show I've been to...
I got screwed big time on a Cibachrome motor base. I still remember the seller. He was going by the name Smiling Ed.
At one point, the o-ring on the wheel switch broke off. I though it was no big deal. Just remove four screws, take apart and re-assemble. It turns out the drive o-ring had broken and the guy had repaired it using dental floss!
It works but still left a strange feeling...

Since he was cheap enough to do such a repair, I'm starting to wonder if it was new or used dental floss

SLVR · « **Reply #33 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:07:41 AM »

The used floss would have been fine, just rise it and squeegee it out a few times and you're fine

To be honest i was SO worried about something like that happening. This was my first show also. I didnt know what to expect. My eyes lit up though as soon as i walked through the door though.

Chris A Fraser · « **Reply #34 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:13:04 AM »

We have a big swap coming up on Nov. 5th. This is an annual swap that fills a gym for a straight 10 hours. I go every year. I usually don't go with anything in mind and come out with something fun. I would love to come out with a 4x5 field camera, but would need to sell some gear first.

SLVR · « **Reply #35 on:** October 16, 2012, 01:47:34 AM »

10 hours! That would be awesome. This one was over in a matter of hours. It was kind of scary actually

Francois · « **Reply #36 on:** October 16, 2012, 03:23:02 PM »

I know what you mean!
First, there's the lineup. Then, the frenzy to get to the good stuff first.
There's usually a lot of people from opening at 10 until noon. At 1 o'clock, you start getting the bargains. And the show closes at 2 or 3...

Chris A Fraser · « **Reply #37 on:** October 16, 2012, 04:21:26 PM »

last year I picked up a 10 pack of Polaroid 600 film for a $100. I wasn't even the fist one through the door. I also saw a lot of low end TLRs going for $80 plus. I must say I am inspired, perhaps a new lens for my Bronica.

SLVR · « **Reply #38 on:** October 16, 2012, 04:55:13 PM »

it was a feeding frenzy for sure. Everything finished up at around 2 or 3 also.

Ive been looking around at the 150mm for this camera. It's on my list for sure. LOVE that tight DOF.

mcduff · « **Reply #39 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:13:49 PM »

It is a nice camera (I was there with tintin) and it is a good show. Part of me wants to keep this gem of a show to myself (so there are not even bigger crowds) but if others thought that way I would have never heard about it ;-)

So Check out http://phsc.ca/ - I think they have a spring show too and for those close enough to Toronto they may be worth joining.

I did not score anything major (mainly because I have bought too much lately haha) but scored a stupid amount of film (a 'beer' fridge is finally happening in my house and not mainly for beer) and a second nice little Trip35 for $15. I normally don't shoot much stuff older than the 70's but I love looking at it and there was a ton of that stuff there.

Francois · « **Reply #40 on:** October 17, 2012, 02:30:59 PM »

Welcome mcduff!

SLVR · « **Reply #41 on:** October 17, 2012, 06:20:41 PM »

make sure to make a post in the meet the filmwasters thread! That one you printed and scanned the other day would be great for it!

mcduff · « **Reply #42 on:** October 17, 2012, 10:08:02 PM »

Haha tintin i will. And thanks Francois! I have been lurking for a while... Introductions to follow ;-)

Author Topic: Need to get up to speed on Medium format fast! (Read 7043 times)

Terry