Author Topic: Marrakesh (Read 11768 times)

Late Developer · « **on:** June 09, 2012, 07:19:32 PM »

Against my better judgement, I was persuaded to visit a friend of ours today. He owns a bistro and also a travel agency. Seldom do we ever book our holidays anywhere else. He's not always the cheapest but he's a really sound bloke and, over the years, we've got to know and we trust him and his staff implicitly. He was out. More specifically, he's just flown to New York - to watch a Neil Diamond concert. Well, he might be a sound bloke but I didn't say he had good taste in music, did I?

Anyway, his trusty sidekick, Susie, saw us approaching the shop, came out and invited us in. We'd only gone there to make some tentative enquiries about what deals might be available for the fortnight that the Olympics are taking place in London. We've booked that time off as our daily commute takes us through Stratford - home of the Olympic stadia and village - and nothing will persuade us to compete with the carnage that will ensue as three sittings of 80,000+ people per day head to and from the various venues.

We left the shop having booked a week in Marrakesh, staying in a Riad a few minutes walk from the Djemaa el Fna. I suspect it might be a tad warm at the end of July / beginning of August.

Anyway, has anyone been to Marrakesh recently? We've seven days to fill and would be grateful for any suggestions about places to visit on foot or within easy striking distance in a taxi.

I'm also debating camera, lens and film options. I've considered and discounted taking my Hasselblad + 3 lenses (too heavy and cumbersome and not metered) and my Rolleiflex (metered but being limited to just one lens will be too much of a frustration for a week solid). My options are:

- Leica M6TTL + 28/35/50/90mm lenses (or any 3 from those 4)
- Mamiya 7 + 65/150mm lenses
- Nikon F5 + 24/35/50/85mm lenses

My head's leaning towards the Leica (ideal to travel light) but the Mamiya offers massive negs - but the Nikon's meter and build is just phenomenal. Which would you recommend?

Finally, film choice is likely to be slow (Portra 160 and TMax 100) for daylight and fast (Portra 800, Fuji 800 or Ilford 3200) for evenings. I really want to get the best quality, sharpest and most detailed negs possible. Do those film options sound about right?

Looking forward to feedback and suggestions from anyone who's been there or somewhere similar....

Many thanks.

Andrea. · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2012, 07:39:12 PM »

TBQH, rangefinder forum is best for this kind of question. They'll tell you what colour your lens should be, what focal length, film you should use and the bag you should put it in.

I should imagine the best will be whatever you have got is best. And take a matchbox so you can make a matchbox pinhole camera on the journey there. Lovely place mind you. Suits a pinhole very well although I should go for a smaller pinhole than normal - and slow film otherwise all sorts of things will sneak in!

calbisu · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2012, 08:40:09 PM »

I was in Morocco three years ago, I flew to Fez, rented a car, traveled to the Atlas, then went back to Fez and by bus to Chef Chaouen. I think we spent around 10 days, we usually travel non stop. At that time I was still shooting digital, and using lots of textures

please allow me to post the link to my Morocco folder, so it can give an idea of places like Chefchaouen.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/calbisu/sets/72157619244593126/with/3633240643/

If I would go now I would bring a wide angle lens, as many of the streets in the old parts of town are narrow, narrow. I usually shoot black and white but I would shoot in Color, very colorfull people and places. And if you can make it to Chefchaouen, a bit far from Marrakesh but still... its blue streets and alleys, but I am sure that in Marrakesh you can find similar places.

Personally I would bring the Rolleiflex with portra 400 or tmax 400

Carlos

Late Developer · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2012, 10:40:16 PM »

Quote from: Andrea. on June 09, 2012, 07:39:12 PM

TBQH, rangefinder forum is best for this kind of question. They'll tell you what colour your lens should be, what focal length, film you should use and the bag you should put it in.

Spot on Andrea

I asked because I am useless at convincing myself to travel light. As Lara's going to be using the D700, I'm sort of leaning towards taking the F5 as so can share some lenses. Sadly, making a matchbox pinhole is out of the question as my fingers of butter and fists of ham would conspire against me

Carlos, I visited Chefchaouen for a day when I went to Tangiers many years ago - and I want to visit there again this time if possible. However, as much as I respect and appreciate your advice to take the Rollei, it really would drive me nuts not to have lens options for the very same reason you say you'd want a wide lens. If I did take the Rollei, I would have to take the Ricoh GR1s as a "wide" option.

charles binns · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2012, 06:56:00 AM »

If you have time head off to Essaouira, a medieaval port about 3 hours drive from marrakesh - you can take a bus. Full of colour, fantastic beaches, it's like going back in time. Jimi Hendrix spent a summer there & wrote Castles in the Sand there. Well worth staying the night.

You can (or could when I was there 20 yrs ago) buy fish off the boats coming in to harbour, and they'd grill them for you on the quayside.

Also think about going to the Atlas mountains. Djebel Toubkal is the highest mountain in North Africa, worth a climb if you are into that sort of thing.

Filmwise you will never go wrong with Portra in my opinion.

Steven. · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2012, 07:08:41 AM »

bring the nikon f5 with the 24 and the 50 and leave everything else at home.

Urban Hafner · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2012, 08:02:31 AM »

Actually, the Rolleiflex + the Ricoh does sound like a versatile combination. I mean, do you really want to switch lenses? Personally I'm just too lazy to do that, so having two cameras does sound like a good idea to me. But I guess you'll have to decide for yourself. So maybe the Ricoh and the Leica with a lens or two? Anyway, I think I'm a bit jealous. But on the other hand I live in the south of France, and Italy is also just an hour away

Urban

Late Developer · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2012, 09:30:53 AM »

Quote from: charles binns on June 10, 2012, 06:56:00 AM

If you have time head off to Essaouira, a medieaval port about 3 hours drive from marrakesh - you can take a bus. Full of colour, fantastic beaches, it's like going back in time. Jimi Hendrix spent a summer there & wrote Castles in the Sand there. Well worth staying the night.

You can (or could when I was there 20 yrs ago) buy fish off the boats coming in to harbour, and they'd grill them for you on the quayside.

Also think about going to the Atlas mountains. Djebel Toubkal is the highest mountain in North Africa, worth a climb if you are into that sort of thing.

Filmwise you will never go wrong with Portra in my opinion.

Charles, our accommodation is already booked and paid for in Marrakesh but Essaouira is on the list of excursions we'd like to do. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak these days when it comes to mountains. I've done a lot of mountain walking and scrambling in the UK but my knees are now arthritic and I'm too overweight to contemplate mush more than a gentle hike. As mentioned earlier, I do intend heading for Chefchaouen as I've been there once before but would love to do a photo set this time.

Urban - Rollei and Ricoh sounds interesting (and may be what I go for) but I'm trying to keep it simple and one size of film somehow seems more logical. I might try that combo on a day out and see how I get on. If you haven't been to Saintes Maries de la Mer in the Camrgue, you must go. Medieval town, wild white horses and the salt marshes are stunning (but it gets very busy in holiday season).

Steven. That sounds very sensible and is high on the list of possibilities right now but I'd have to bring the 85mm/f1.8 as well, as it is just such a good portrait lens. If I was taking only 2 lenses, they'd be the 35mm/f2 and 85mm/f1.8.

I was looking at the Mamiya 7 again last night; two optically stunning lenses (35mm approx equivalent of 30mm and 75mm angle of view) quicker and easier to load than either Hasselblad or Rolleiflex, 120 negative, massive and bright viewfinder. Only downsides are the lenses are a bit slow (f3.5 and f4) and the kit's a bit heavy and lumpy (but so am I)

David A-W · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2012, 10:29:02 AM »

I've only been to Marrakech once and that was in the mid-90's. Within the city, if I recall correctly, two great sources for photography are the bazaars and the night market in the Djmaa el Fna. The bazaars are generally covered so you're either shooting in quite low light or in extremely constrasty light where the sunlight comes through openings. In the market its going to be all about fast lenses and fast film - or impressionistic blurs from longer exposures.

Late Developer · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2012, 11:29:01 AM »

Thanks David. Your photos are an excellent demonstration of the lighting conditions in the souks / open market in the evening. Consequently, it's looking increasingly likely that I'll take the F5. Portra 160, 400 and 800 seems logical and I can always convert to mono via Photoshop, etc. The other advantage this has is that I have the flashgun for the F5/D700 so I could always use that for evenings / fill-in if I need it.

Urban Hafner · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2012, 03:45:48 PM »

You're right. The Nikon seems like a good choice given that Lara uses one, too. Now, how about reducing the film stocks? I haven't shot Porta 400 myself, but it seems that you can underexpose it by two stops without any change in development and I imagine overexposing it by two stops should be possible, too. This way you could go on that trip with one camera and one film stock.

Urban

Chalky · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2012, 04:33:46 PM »

Hi,
I went on a surf trip to Taghazout and managed to get 2 nights in Marrakesh at the end and it was great.

no recommendations for trips as we only saw the beach and Marrakesh, but worth mentioning there is a great vintage camera seller in the souk, where there is a huge pile of cameras to rummage through.

Have fun

Steven. · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2012, 05:57:14 PM »

Quote from: Late Developer on June 10, 2012, 09:30:53 AM

Steven. That sounds very sensible and is high on the list of possibilities right now but I'd have to bring the 85mm/f1.8 as well, as it is just such a good portrait lens. If I was taking only 2 lenses, they'd be the 35mm/f2 and 85mm/f1.8.

when i first started photography i went to japan and brought with me a rebel xt with a 28-135 and 50 1.4. 28 on crop is about 42mm and 50 on crop is about 80mm. i got a couple nice portraits in but i really missed having a wide angle as the 42 was just too long to capture a lot of architecture and scenery... i really think the 50 would suffice as a portrait lens if you wanted to keep you kit light.

just my 2 cents but i think whatever you take will work out just fine

Late Developer · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2012, 07:42:33 PM »

Quote

when i first started photography i went to japan and brought with me a rebel xt with a 28-135 and 50 1.4. 28 on crop is about 42mm and 50 on crop is about 80mm. i got a couple nice portraits in but i really missed having a wide angle as the 42 was just too long to capture a lot of architecture and scenery... i really think the 50 would suffice as a portrait lens if you wanted to keep you kit light.

just my 2 cents but i think whatever you take will work out just fine

Hi Steven. You are absolutely spot on with the advice regarding wide angle. I can usually get away with the 35mm/f2 as it's so versatile. However, in the souks and even for wide landscape shots, the 24mm would be a great option. There's sufficient space in my bag for one body, four small primes (or three and a zoom) + film, my phone and other odds and sods. As my wife will be taking a D700 with 24-120mm zoom, 70-300mm VR zoom and, maybe, a 90mm macro I could (at a pinch) borrow her 24-120mm if I needed to - but I'll probably take my 24mm as it takes up so little room and weighs only a few ounces. If only I could afford the 24-70mm/f2.8 Nikkor......!!

Tim · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2012, 08:19:32 PM »

Quote from: charles binns on June 10, 2012, 06:56:00 AM

If you have time head off to Essaouira, a medieaval port about 3 hours drive from marrakesh - you can take a bus. Full of colour, fantastic beaches, it's like going back in time. Jimi Hendrix spent a summer there & wrote Castles in the Sand there. Well worth staying the night.

You can (or could when I was there 20 yrs ago) buy fish off the boats coming in to harbour, and they'd grill them for you on the quayside.

Also think about going to the Atlas mountains. Djebel Toubkal is the highest mountain in North Africa, worth a climb if you are into that sort of thing.

Filmwise you will never go wrong with Portra in my opinion.

I was in Essaouira in 2010 and you can still get your fish how you describe it

- nothing changed so far. But pay attention regarding the drugdealers at the (very same or at least very close) spot! It's really sad - on one side you have the really beautiful harbour but when you look on the other side of the quay bulkhead you might even see kids who sniff glue.

Back to Marrakesh:
It's an amazing city! My girlfriend and I spent several days there during our moroccan backpacking trip. Make sure to take your wide angel with you since there are several very narrow alleys. I would take the M6+35mm with me. My advice (one everybody will tell you) concerning "things to do" would be to get lost in the souks and to enjoy a nice evening/cup of morrocan tea on one of the many roofgardens while listening to call to prayer of the muezzin.

PS.: google for The Voices of Marrakesh: A Record of a Visit by Elias Canetti - great book!

Late Developer · « **Reply #15 on:** June 11, 2012, 08:31:07 PM »

Thanks Tim. I'll check the book and see if we can get to Essaouira. I steer clear of drug dealers and they should do the same with me. I was hoping to revisit Chefchaouen but it looks too much for a day trip. Maybe next time.

The M6 is probably my second choice behind the F5 but I want to avoid the distraction of having to focus and get exposure right whilst, simultaneously, composing the shot. I'm not a great one for auto-focus but in a busy market / souq, the F5's meter, shutter priority setting and AF are potent allies.

Cheers, Paul.

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #16 on:** June 13, 2012, 01:37:46 PM »

Jacqui and I took a trip to Marrakech in the Spring of 2007 just before our 2nd kid arrived. I think we had 4 or 5 nights there and stayed at 2 different ryads in the city. Both were awesome. We had planned to travel about outside the city (day trip to the Atlas mountains, day trip to Essaouira etc.), but the combination of Jacqui being very pregnant and not keen on sitting in a taxi/bus/train for anything longer than 20 minutes, the fact that it was hot and the fact that Marrakech is so fascinating meant that we spent the whole time wandering around the city on foot with the occasional taxi/bus ride thrown in. We loved the place....I'm sure you'll have a great time.

FWIW I took a Pentax SLR, a Agfa Isola and a Coronet Commander (toy cam). I could have taken any of 50 other cameras, but I'm not sure I'd have ended up with better pictures

If I am going to dragged into the gear debate my only comment would be that if I'm taking more than one camera, then I like them to be very different to each other; hence the decent SLR and the plastic toy cam. The combo worked well for me and I had a great time taking photos. I didn't end up with anything special, but I had lots of fun just snapping street scenes. There are lots of opportunities for silhouette shots, so be ready for them. My advice re the souk would be to assume everything you take in there will be hit and miss. Djema El Fna is unmissable as a photo spot; make sure you go there everyday if poss and also every night. Wide open, grainy shots of Djema El Fna in action at night are a must.

In fact, I like Marrakech nice and grainy in general. I think I took some red and orange filters for my b/w toy cam shots.

Thinking back on it, the light isn't as you might expect. Sure it's bright as you like during the day when you're out in the open, but you will inevitably spend a lot of time in cool, shaded interiors, so don't just take really slow film. It'll be crazy hot when you're there, so expect to spend a lot of time under cover or out in the city in the evening. Some fast b/w film my be useful.

For some reason I didn't scan many of my Marrakech snaps properly, but I've just been through the 'contact sheet' scans and it brought back some happy memories. Here are three that I previously stuck on Flickr.

Before & After by Ed Wenn, on Flickr

Silhouette by Ed Wenn, on Flickr

Marrakech #6 by Ed Wenn, on Flickr

jojonas~ · « **Reply #17 on:** June 13, 2012, 04:06:03 PM »

nice shots ed, I get a feel of the place from the three~

Suzi Livingstone · « **Reply #18 on:** June 13, 2012, 05:09:04 PM »

When I went to Marrakech I went with only an old Holga and some neopan 400 - was fine

Late Developer · « **Reply #19 on:** June 13, 2012, 07:00:25 PM »

Hi Ed, those shots are stunning. Just seen your Flickr set as well - really beautiful.

Your comments about taking diverse kit has got me thinking and, although I intend to make a Blurb book of our travels in Marrakesh / Essaouira, a bit of variation might do the job. Perhaps the Rollei for colour and use the Nikon (or my Leica) for B&W....

We're staying a few minutes walk from Djemma El Fna - just by one of the souks. Our place is supposed to have a really nice pool which will be very welcome to help cool down. A colleague of mine went to Marrakesh and recorded 50 degrees at midday in the open sun. We will be taking iced mint tea on-board when it's like that

Miller · « **Reply #20 on:** June 27, 2012, 05:09:08 PM »

L to the D

I will be in Essa' end of August... Was supposed to be there last year but the Mrs did her achilles last minute so had to cancel (thank God we had insurance)...

Yeah, I needs to think what to bring but hey... As ever, I'll just wing it the night before but have a feeling that some IP Silver Shade and expired 108 type will be enough with an IPhone Hipsta for serial shooting...

Dang, would love to dig out my Canon Super 8 though as that would be the Evander 'Real Deal' Holyfield...

Rgds

Mlr

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #21 on:** June 27, 2012, 08:49:11 PM »

Ah, some time down by the sea for the Millers. Very nice. I don't doubt you'll bring some some top drawer snaps.

Francois · « **Reply #22 on:** June 27, 2012, 08:55:37 PM »

Quote from: Ed Wenn on June 27, 2012, 08:49:11 PM

Ah, some time down by the sea for the Millers. Very nice. I don't doubt you'll bring some some top drawer snaps.

And maybe some salt water toffee for all of us

LT · « **Reply #23 on:** June 27, 2012, 09:00:28 PM »

all sounds very exciting. I can't help with cameras/ films/ conditions etc, but have a great time Paul - plenty of sweet mint tea sounds like it is in order.

L.

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #24 on:** June 27, 2012, 10:08:47 PM »

... and majoun.

Late Developer · « **Reply #25 on:** June 28, 2012, 10:46:18 AM »

Decision made.

35mm Camera body: Nikon F3HP
Lenses: 35mm/f2 and 85mm/f1.8 (both AF-D) + 200mm/f4 Ai
MF Camera: Voigtlander Perkeo 1

35mm film: Ilford XP2 Super
120 Film: Provia 400 + XP2 Super

Hope you have a great time out there, Miller. We're hoping to get at least a day or two out by the sea - just to cool off a bit......

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #26 on:** July 03, 2012, 04:54:20 PM »

Quote from: Ed Wenn on June 13, 2012, 01:37:46 PM

If I am going to dragged into the gear debate my only comment would be that if I'm taking more than one camera, then I like them to be very different to each other; hence the decent SLR and the plastic toy cam. The combo worked well for me and I had a great time taking photos.

I think that's fantastic advice.

I'd be tempted to take my Vivitar Ultra Wide & Slim with some monochrome film with a lot of latitude (maybe a bunch of XP2) and a random SLR. Some pair that would be fun, interesting, useful (thinking of that need for your 24mm), and navigable by my wife if she had a random snap moment. Plus, gear that would be easy to shoot with and wouldn't extract me from the experience of being there.

I think if I were going somewhere for the second or third time, I'd bring something else, some languorous gear, maybe a TLR or something. My first time I'd want to experience the place. The second I'd want to see it.

Late Developer · « **Reply #27 on:** July 03, 2012, 07:50:56 PM »

Hi Jack.

First and foremost - really sorry to hear about your wife. My best wishes to you both and here's hoping for a speedy and full recovery. Things like that place photography in its true context - an enjoyable distraction but utterly unimportant in the greater scheme of things.

Anyway, decision unmade......

Having recently acquired a Hasselblad 500c with a 50mm Distagon, I got to thinking that having a 40mm CFT* FLE as well was being a bit greedy. Anyway, to cut a long story short, a bit of hard bargaining and the inclusion of my old but very functional Perkeo 1 got me a mint- 43mm + viewfinder for my Mamiya 7 (for which I also have the 65mm and 150mm)

I'm now seriously considering taking my Mamiya 7 + lenses + Ricoh GR1s for quick point and shoot action.

LT · « **Reply #28 on:** July 03, 2012, 08:04:21 PM »

I've been thinking about your pain recently Paul ... too many cameras, not enough locations

But, seriously, it has lead me to have a long, hard think about it all. And lead me to clear out most of my gear. I've decided I dont need a ton of cameras that sit in drawers never being used. So the big sell off part 1 was completed in February this year. Part 2 is underway, and part three is soon to commence. After which I will be left with one 5x4 with wide and normal lenses, one 5x4 pinhole and one MF camera. And that's it. No 35mm, no tons of choice.

It is really quite liberating and has lead to me planning pictures I'm going to take, not planning cameras I'm going to use.

Maybe there really is such a thing as having too many cameras

Late Developer · « **Reply #29 on:** July 03, 2012, 08:28:00 PM »

Quote from: Leon on July 03, 2012, 08:04:21 PM

Maybe there really is such a thing as having too many cameras

Heretic..........

Seriously, though, locations aren't the issue, Leon, time available to waste film is the killer for me.

Over the past couple of years, I've acquired and tried out loads of kit that I wanted but could never afford when it was new / current model, back in the day. As a result, certain pieces of kit will only ever be sold if food and shelter were threatened (Leica M6 and Mamiya 7). I really like my Hasselblad, Rollei and Nikon gear and the little Ricoh GR1s is a fine piece of kit lacking only a bit of "zoom" to the lens, IMO.

My 5x4 is a bit of fun. I may learn to love it above all else but, until I've considered the image quality benefits compared to the effort expended lugging it around and setting it up, I'll defer judgement. Maybe a Titan pinhole would be a better option.

If I had to choose one system right now, it would be the Mamiya 7 as MF is my favourite and I find the Mamiya is a joy to use - like a bigger, lumpier, MF Leica....

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #30 on:** July 03, 2012, 09:11:53 PM »

Paul, just sort of fyi, but I recently went to an exhibition of shots taken almost exclusively with Mamiya 7 kit. http://www.thirdfloorgallery.com/exhibitions.html#exhibition25 I can't guess which lenses Ewen uses as a number seemed cropped, but solid stuff for sure.

I should be back to Bologna in early September, but it's no contest ... Rolleiflex and a brace of Pentax, (31mm and 77mm).

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #31 on:** July 03, 2012, 10:02:00 PM »

I hear you, Leon. I am yet to do anything about it, but, I have plans!

Bloody Flexbody not getting used along with F4, F5, Rolleicord, 600SE etc! I think I just want my 500CM, SWC and the Linhof oh, and the Holga. The rest just sit and cause confusion.

Flexbody anyone

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #32 on:** July 04, 2012, 04:28:57 AM »

Quote from: Late Developer on July 03, 2012, 07:50:56 PM

Hi Jack.

First and foremost - really sorry to hear about your wife. My best wishes to you both and here's hoping for a speedy and full recovery.

Thank you so much.

Quote from: Phil Bebbington on July 03, 2012, 10:02:00 PM

The rest just sit and cause confusion.

My problem is that the camera I want to shoot with is always the one I'm holding. I'll make up my mind, go to grab a camera and have to move one in the process and go oh yeah, that's right.

If someone else would do it, I could probably do without three-quarters of my collection or more. If I had to do it, it would always be one more roll first, please.

Donny Kerabatsos · « **Reply #33 on:** October 20, 2012, 09:52:55 AM »

Hello, I'm sorry to dig an old post, but I'm curious to see pictures from that trip in Marrakech...

Late Developer · « **Reply #34 on:** October 20, 2012, 12:27:05 PM »

Hi Donny.

I've posted quite a few on my "Tumblr". Click on the link and hope you like them. Some have appeared in weekend threads as well.

Paul.

Donny Kerabatsos · « **Reply #35 on:** October 20, 2012, 04:43:39 PM »

thank you, I've found some photos on your tumblr.
very interesting.