Author Topic: the price of film .... again! (Read 12143 times)

LT · « **on:** May 08, 2012, 01:11:35 PM »

I'm off on a trip to the Northern Islands in a few weeks. The last time I went was in 2002 when I was quite new to photography, so I've never really been there on a dedicated photo trip, until now. Which of course requires some quality analogue related supplies - no point travelling 800 miles to only take some cacky, scratchy, spotty, delicate old adox film, right?

So, I visited a few sites to purchase film. The trip is going to be only shot on 5x4 and as I like HP5+ so very damn much, that HAD to be the only film. Last time I checked, it was still about £29 for 25 sheets ... WRONG! Near enough forty chuffing pounds for 25 sheets ...GULP.

A bit of searching found that good ole Matt at AG Photographic was still the cheapest, but it was still 35 smackers for 25 sheets. I've bought some, but that really is my limit. Any more price hikes and I'm out of there. £1.50-£1.60 per shot on film alone is really too much for me.

It's a good thing that I haven't just got rid of a load of smaller format cameras to fund a shiny new large format camera that will be unaffordable to use soon, isn't it ... (oh, hang on a minute .... DOH!)

It seems the choices to us are

1. wetplate - (need a bigger camera)
2. waxed paper negs - (but it's never the same though, is it)
3. cheapy poor quality films -

what else? Digital? not for me.

charles binns · « **Reply #1 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:30:45 PM »

Have you tried buying direct from Ilford (or any wholesaler) at wholesale prices.

I put some effort into looking wholesalers of film a while back. I did find one wholesaler & though his stock is limited I can buy Portra and some 120 Ilford film at about £1 a roll cheaper than buying from a retailer like AG Photographic (who i have to say have let me down a couple of times).

You have to buy in bulk but the savings are worth it. It wasn't easy to find a wholesaler though - not sure why.

Photo_Utopia · « **Reply #2 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:43:04 PM »

I have used Foma 100 which is about £30 for 50 sheets, never had any quality issues but at that price it's a good film.
I have some sheets about 40 or so I'm unlikely to use if you p.m me I'll send them to you for testing....
Regards
Mark

Late Developer · « **Reply #3 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:47:34 PM »

Hi Leon, it's a bugger, isn't it?

Just at the point where you get your dream piece of kit, some thoughtless swine goes and hikes the price of the main consumable. What to do.....

I've often wondered what my ultimate threshold would be, where film's concerned. For the most part, this will be dictated by whether I remain employed following the impending sale of the company for which I work. If I do, then I think I've a bit to go yet with the price of film as I don't use loads.

If not, then re-learning how to process my own negs becomes a critical factor. If food and housing are threatened, there's no piece of kit I wouldn't sell to protect Lara and myself from the elements. Hopefully, it doesn't come to that. Somewhere in-between, I could do any / all of the following:

- shoot less
- travel less to shoot what I want (that would be the killer for me)
- shoot 35mm / MF exclusively
- shoot C41 exclusively
- process my own B&W

Digital holds no particular appeal for me (and I'd probably have a job wrestling my D700 back off Lara

) but I'd probably revert to digital if there was no other feasible option.

LT · « **Reply #4 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:49:40 PM »

very kind of you mark - but Ive used adox and foma films now, and both have let me down. I can't risk it in LF.

LT · « **Reply #5 on:** May 08, 2012, 01:51:35 PM »

charles - wholesale does make sense, but it is a catch 22 - I don't have enough available cash to justify buying wholesale, even though it would work out cheaper in the long run. A pain in the buttox.

sapata · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:23:23 PM »

I was in shock as well last time I checked the 4x5 prices as well Leon, I can't even remember the last time I bought any fresh Ilford 4x5 (not that I oftem use). To be honest I don't know what am I going to do when I go back to Brazil as the prices for imported goods get loads of taxation... I wasn't joking when I decided to do Carl's collodion workshop

Mojave · « **Reply #7 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:47:02 PM »

As somebody who pays a bunch more than 2 bucks a shot for TIP film, I think I can safely say that when it comes down to it Leon, you will probably just keep buying what you love, no matter the cost. The alternative just isn't thinkable.

Suzi Livingstone · « **Reply #8 on:** May 08, 2012, 02:57:36 PM »

Quote from: Leon on May 08, 2012, 01:11:35 PM

I'm off on a trip to the Northern Islands in a few weeks. The last time I went was in 2002 when I was quite new to photography, so I've never really been there on a dedicated photo trip, until now. Which of course requires some quality analogue related supplies - no point travelling 800 miles to only take some cacky, scratchy, spotty, delicate old adox film, right?

So, I visited a few sites to purchase film. The trip is going to be only shot on 5x4 and as I like HP5+ so very damn much, that HAD to be the only film. Last time I checked, it was still about £29 for 25 sheets ... WRONG! Near enough forty chuffing pounds for 25 sheets ...GULP.

A bit of searching found that good ole Matt at AG Photographic was still the cheapest, but it was still 35 smackers for 25 sheets. I've bought some, but that really is my limit. Any more price hikes and I'm out of there. £1.50-£1.60 per shot on film alone is really too much for me.

It's a good thing that I haven't just got rid of a load of smaller format cameras to fund a shiny new large format camera that will be unaffordable to use soon, isn't it ... (oh, hang on a minute .... DOH!)

It seems the choices to us are

1. wetplate - (need a bigger camera)
2. waxed paper negs - (but it's never the same though, is it)
3. cheapy poor quality films -

what else? Digital? not for me.

Yes I'd heard this from someone else who just bought some.. I nearly choked..
D*g*t*l is no choice for me either, gonna try wet plate and then revisit pinholes over the summer.

Jeff Warden · « **Reply #9 on:** May 08, 2012, 03:08:36 PM »

It's a tough situation for sure, especially for those larger films. But a special trip like this needs quality film so I'm glad you got the good stuff.

I use a small enough amount of film that the cost increases haven't affected me all that much, but if it comes to it I'll use my phone for snaps, 35mm for 'better', and MF for 'best'. I could happily shoot/process/print b&w 35mm format for the rest of my life but right now MF gear is attractively priced so I'm dabbling in that.

The problem I would have with 4x5 and larger formats is that the film would become too important due to it's cost. The last thing I want to be doing while using a camera is thinking about money so I'll stick with the small stuff.

I'm reading a good book on André Kertész. There is a lovely image he made in 1933 of himself admiring his wife, Elizabeth. He cropped and printed the image immediately, but experimented with it later, arriving at the final crop and print sometime in the 1960s. So at least you too will know that in thirty years time there will be high quality, large negatives should you also want to revisit your work. You will have forgotten about the money by then I'm sure.

Andrea. · « **Reply #10 on:** May 08, 2012, 03:36:44 PM »

Paper negs are just brill Mr Leon. Ortho but authentic eh?

Otherwise, do what I have just done - buy a stock of 35mm Polypanf and go all wabi sabi!

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2012, 05:52:55 PM »

I'm missing that lovely ERA 100 film from China I used to get on eBay ...

I've still got another box, but have they gone down the toilet as well? It was half the price of Ilford.

Oh, a tip Leon ... For colour, I've already relegated myself to using a 6x9/6x7 rollback on the view cam. It's not a bad investment. $:-\$

Chalky · « **Reply #12 on:** May 08, 2012, 08:09:26 PM »

I don't buy loads of film (other than my hoarding of polaroid), and what I do buy is MF so maybe I don't feel the cost hikes as badly, and most of it is expired on ebay as I'm not so worried about more unpredictable results most of the time.

However, now as cash is tighter for everyone, I don't allow myself to feed my ebay addiction for new cameras or anything else, unless I have sold enough things to pay for what I want. Sounds obvious I know but too many times I have just thrown in a bid or hit buy it now, and those quickly add up.

So far I have sold enough to buy a polaroid 195 and Bronica S2 and now I'll be doing the same when I need film to a certain extent.

I decided that yes I love my camera collection, but I'd rather have film for the ones I use frequently.

The old car boot buy to ebay sell for profit it also a good way to make some extra pennies. Turned a couple £1 cameras into £30+.

Expensive times.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #13 on:** May 08, 2012, 09:14:40 PM »

tough times leon... sad to hear the price rising so much that you have to pull back how much you buy.

I buy maybe 30% fresh and the rest SUPA cheap and well expired. Special film for special occasions.

mojave: hear hear

SLVR · « **Reply #14 on:** May 09, 2012, 02:30:04 AM »

Maybe its getting to be time to revise the site name from "filmwasters" to something a little more economical!

Kidding aside id have to say that im not really feeling the pinch of film cost as much as i am 1 hour film processing.

Used to be free or less than a couple dollars. Now ive seen prices as high as $10 for processing alone. Great incentive to develop color at home.

astrobeck · « **Reply #15 on:** May 09, 2012, 06:34:44 AM »

Quote from: Sandeha Lynch on May 08, 2012, 05:52:55 PM

I'm missing that lovely ERA 100 film from China I used to get on eBay ...

I heard that, I used to buy it from Eric Chen, but I can't find him.

Note that Freestyle in the US is selling 3 rolls of 35mm HP5 for the price of 2. Not too bad a deal.
http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1987690-Ilford-HP5+-400-iso-35mm-x-36-exp.-3-pack?cat_id=40

John Robison · « **Reply #16 on:** May 09, 2012, 02:23:36 PM »

I'm an old timer and film prices seem to be going up much faster than inflation. In 1972 I'd walk into a downtown Chicago camera store and buy a 100ft. roll of Tri-X a couple of boxes of Kodak snap caps, 10 to a box, and get back change from a $10 bill. Now Tri-X is still available in 100ft. bulk but the price is $75, you can't get snap caps at all, only those Agfa style cartridges and they are almost $1 each! It just does not pay to bulk load 35mm any longer. Medium format 120 film is $3 to $5 a roll or more here in the US and as I learn the ropes with 4X5 I'm sticking with paper negatives. So far about 15 cents a shot plus another 15 cents if you contact print a positive.

Suzi Livingstone · « **Reply #17 on:** May 09, 2012, 02:32:24 PM »

Depressing times

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #18 on:** May 09, 2012, 04:58:09 PM »

Being mainly an instant film user these days, my limit is £1 per print. I refuse to pay more than that - expired or new - and so far I haven't had to. A few years ago though my limit was half that.....so maybe Erin's correct.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #19 on:** May 10, 2012, 06:57:59 PM »

Quote from: Ed Wenn on May 09, 2012, 04:58:09 PM

Being mainly an instant film user these days, my limit is £1 per print. I refuse to pay more than that - expired or new - and so far I haven't had to. A few years ago though my limit was half that.....so maybe Erin's correct.

excuse me, but... erin?

DS · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2012, 12:20:26 AM »

Was whinging about this to my dad- he came back with a good point- which is that if you adjust for inflation film is way more affordable now than when he was a mad keen photographer in the '60s/'70s. Makes it slightly less scary- maybe.

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2012, 07:01:48 AM »

Quote from: DS on May 11, 2012, 12:20:26 AM

Was whinging about this to my dad- he came back with a good point- which is that if you adjust for inflation film is way more affordable now than when he was a mad keen photographer in the '60s/'70s. Makes it slightly less scary- maybe.

This strikes me as very true. My first week's wage was something like £4.15s.6d in 1968, (possibly £70 in today's beans) and a second-hand 35mm camera I bought the year after cost me £30. I guess we've just been through a golden age.

Nigel · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2012, 08:25:43 AM »

I'm only using 35mm and 120, and not in great quantities at that, so the price hasn't hit me so much at the moment.

Quote

charles - wholesale does make sense, but it is a catch 22 - I don't have enough available cash to justify buying wholesale, even though it would work out cheaper in the long run. A pain in the buttox.

I don't use 5 x 4 so I'm no help here but I wonder whether there are enough FWs interested in the same film type / size that a small Co-operative group could form to buy the film? It would take a commitment from those interested but it would get you that wholesale price?

jojonas~ · « **Reply #23 on:** May 11, 2012, 08:52:24 AM »

Quote from: Nigel on May 11, 2012, 08:25:43 AM

I don't use 5 x 4 so I'm no help here but I wonder whether there are enough FWs interested in the same film type / size that a small Co-operative group could form to buy the film? It would take a commitment from those interested but it would get you that wholesale price?

I'm not going in to that big of a format just yet but it seems like a smart thing to do. it'd be something I would like to be in on.

DaveO · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2012, 05:52:28 PM »

Why not try a 6x9 camera. It must be a lot cheaper to feed.

charles binns · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:20:32 PM »

Nigel,

It's a good idea but I contacted Ilford asking them whether I could buy film from them at wholesale prices or whether there where any wholesalers I could deal with and they sent me the e-mail address of AG Photographic

a dealer who was more expensive than AG Photographic

and a link to their own website where 25 sheets of FP4+ cost 45 *&$$?? quid

Not impressed at all. Might revert and say that I want to be a dealer - just to find out what the minimum order would have to be.

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:29:09 PM »

Has anyone used Liquid Light or Ag-Plus for glass negs?

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/gelatin-silver/silver-gelatin-dry-plate-process

I haven't done the math to see what the cost-per-shot would be.

A local shop has a Graflex 2x3 with both plate and roll holders and I've thought it could be a lot of fun going with plates. The dual quick-load 2x3 plate holders were pretty slick.

Lucy Telford · « **Reply #27 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:25:34 PM »

So far I have bought all my 4x5 film on Ebay, some were partially used boxes etc. I have been able to shoot pretty cheaply. But, yes, buying "new" is scary.

And, for those interested in taking up wet plate, just remember - the price of silver at the moment is high. Everything else is pretty reasonable, including the collodion, but your silver will cost you.

LT · « **Reply #28 on:** May 13, 2012, 05:29:04 PM »

Quote from: Jack Johnson on May 12, 2012, 06:29:09 PM

Has anyone used Liquid Light or Ag-Plus for glass negs?

http://www.alternativephotography.com/wp/processes/gelatin-silver/silver-gelatin-dry-plate-process

I haven't done the math to see what the cost-per-shot would be.

A local shop has a Graflex 2x3 with both plate and roll holders and I've thought it could be a lot of fun going with plates. The dual quick-load 2x3 plate holders were pretty slick.

Jack - I've had a bottle of silverprint emulsion sitting in the fridge for a year now ... and a plate holder, just need the glass. I'm quite scared about using it - I have a very low tolerance to things that don't work immediately

These are paper emulsions though so they will be very slow - iso 3 or so. And they won't be panchromatic so won't be quite the same. Worth a punt though.

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #29 on:** May 15, 2012, 06:50:49 AM »

Quote from: Leon on May 13, 2012, 05:29:04 PM

These are paper emulsions though so they will be very slow - iso 3 or so. And they won't be panchromatic so won't be quite the same. Worth a punt though.

I read that Ag-Plus is getting rated somewhere around ISO 160 or so, so it might be a little more fun.

Jack Johnson · « **Reply #30 on:** May 24, 2012, 07:06:03 AM »

On the color front, does anyone have a favorite in 120? I'm thinking of going with Fuji Reala 100. It looks like I can get a 5-pack for about $20 USD, and I liked it OK the last time I used it.

Spring has just recently sprung here, and it seems wrong to shoot monochromes after such a long winter.

Phil Bebbington · « **Reply #31 on:** May 24, 2012, 08:42:47 AM »

Kodak Ektar is a lovely film. Great colour.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #32 on:** May 24, 2012, 09:26:04 AM »

Quote from: Jack Johnson on May 24, 2012, 07:06:03 AM

On the color front, does anyone have a favorite in 120? I'm thinking of going with Fuji Reala 100. It looks like I can get a 5-pack for about $20 USD, and I liked it OK the last time I used it.

Spring has just recently sprung here, and it seems wrong to shoot monochromes after such a long winter.

I just bought a fiver of reala myself in 120. I think it's good stuff, used it in my yashica 635 before.

charles binns · « **Reply #33 on:** May 24, 2012, 09:26:58 AM »

I'm a big fan of Kodak Portra. Especially the 400.

Alan · « **Reply #34 on:** May 24, 2012, 04:47:10 PM »

i dont have a favourite in colour 120 film

everything is expired and i have a mish mash of all sorts.

I used to use a lot of superia 200 in the holga but thats gone . . .

I took an inventory of whats in my fridge and at the rate
im shooting film at now, I have enough for the next 5 years . . .

should I be topping up on this?

Dave Elden · « **Reply #35 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:22:17 PM »

Have you looked at buying from B&H in NYC? Of course there wil be shipping, maybe additional taxes but a box of 25 4x5 HP5 is 29.75USD.

LT · « **Reply #36 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:31:41 PM »

Quote from: Dave Elden on May 25, 2012, 04:22:17 PM

Have you looked at buying from B&H in NYC? Of course there wil be shipping, maybe additional taxes but a box of 25 4x5 HP5 is 29.75USD.

I don't normally swear online, but bloody hell, that is cheap!

if my maths is correct, 4 x 25 sheet packs hp5+ would be about £125 (inc shipping and VAT). There would be no customs tax as not above £135.

To buy that here would be £160. that is well worth thinking about!

Dave Elden · « **Reply #37 on:** May 25, 2012, 04:57:24 PM »

Quote from: Leon on May 25, 2012, 04:31:41 PM

...if my maths is correct, 4 x 25 sheet packs hp5+ would be about £125 (inc shipping and VAT). There would be no customs tax as not above £135.

To buy that here would be £160. that is well worth thinking about!

A 100 sheet box is listed at 114.95USD so less than 4x25 boxes. It looks as if they include all taxes, fees etc. in their price as you checkout so no surprises when the shipment arrives. Their web site calculates 227.92USD for a 100 sheet box delivered in the UK via UPS 3-5 days service so even with a return transatlantic airfare for the box there seems to be a saving over UK prices!
Of course if you can persuade a local retailer to at least come close to the B&H price you might elect to spend some cash with a local photographic business instead of enriching UPS...

LT · « **Reply #38 on:** May 25, 2012, 05:52:04 PM »

that's £145 - about £10 more expensive than a 100 sheet box is here

Either my maths are wrong, or B&H are not getting the tax correct.

just the film and shipping without b&h "pay now taxes" option is only £101. With VAT that is only £120. This is at the nil rate customs tax band, so it is only £120! sounds good to me - saving £18 on buying it here

.

I think that is the way to go. thanks for telling us about this

LT · « **Reply #39 on:** May 25, 2012, 05:55:43 PM »

I just checked the tax that B&H charge for you ... about £25 of it is in disbursements and 'security and handling' charges! That's more than the VAT itself!

Better off dealing with it at this end.

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #40 on:** May 25, 2012, 07:54:51 PM »

I just bought 50 sheets of Shanghai on eBay - £30 and free postage. I know it's not what you're after, but that is cheap. I've already got some of their 5x7 and it's good enough.

charles binns · « **Reply #41 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:33:13 PM »

Quote from: Sandeha Lynch on May 25, 2012, 07:54:51 PM

I just bought 50 sheets of Shanghai on eBay - £30 and free postage. I know it's not what you're after, but that is cheap. I've already got some of their 5x7 and it's good enough.

Is the sheet film really curly? I like the 120 but the curly rolls are a devil to get in the film holders of my scanner.

Sandeha Lynch · « **Reply #42 on:** May 25, 2012, 08:46:59 PM »

No Charles, it's sheet film and plenty rigid.

Francois · « **Reply #43 on:** May 25, 2012, 09:39:23 PM »

in that case it very well might be worth looking into.

Author Topic: the price of film .... again! (Read 12143 times)

astrobeck