Author Topic: lith printing, huh? (Read 3933 times)

jojonas~ · « **on:** February 19, 2012, 09:03:12 PM »

I'm about to try my hand on lith printing this coming week, I thought I'd check the forum to see if there's anyone here with a general knowledge of how it works.

I've got an old kodak kit that I'll try out. any one familiar with that?

Francois · « **Reply #1 on:** February 19, 2012, 09:32:18 PM »

Nope...

All I know is that lith developer is used (it's usually a 2 part kit that you mix together at the very last minute) and you pull out the print when it looks good to your eye. For that, you need a well lit darkroom, not a dungeon!

That's pretty much how far I can take you...

Ed Wenn · « **Reply #2 on:** February 19, 2012, 10:53:30 PM »

Others here have good experience with lith printing so hopefully, you'll get some useful feedback - unlike this post from me

Suzi Livingstone · « **Reply #3 on:** February 20, 2012, 09:37:32 AM »

I did some lith last year, loved it. I got a Moersh easylith kit from silverprint which was simple to use.

http://www.silverprint.co.uk/ProductByGroup.asp?PrGrp=503

Here's some handy tips: http://www.lithprint.com/Lith_Print_Introduction.htm

jojonas~ · « **Reply #4 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:39:53 AM »

thanks everyone so far, specially ed and francois

suzi, I can't beliave I missed that lithprint.com excellent!
the most info I had gotten so far was from http://filmphotographyproject.com/content/howto/2012/01/what-lith-print

Suzi Livingstone · « **Reply #5 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:50:33 AM »

Quote from: jojonas on February 20, 2012, 10:39:53 AM

thanks everyone so far, specially ed and francois

suzi, I can't beliave I missed that lithprint.com excellent!
the most info I had gotten so far was from http://filmphotographyproject.com/content/howto/2012/01/what-lith-print

You will have fun with liths, I loved it. Remember to keep your old lith chemicals to use as "brown" which you can top up your developer tray with when it starts to weaken. Knowing when to pull your print from the developer is very much a "feel" thing - its a bit trial and error to start with but very addictive!

LT · « **Reply #6 on:** February 20, 2012, 11:01:54 AM »

don't forget Tim Rudman's book:

http://worldoflithprinting.com/

Suzi Livingstone · « **Reply #7 on:** February 20, 2012, 11:04:13 AM »

Quote from: leon taylor on February 20, 2012, 11:01:54 AM

don't forget Tim Rudman's book:

http://worldoflithprinting.com/

Yes, the best book on lith out there I'd say.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #8 on:** February 20, 2012, 02:24:23 PM »

thanks~ if I get real bitten I'll probably bite into that too

Magnus · « **Reply #9 on:** February 20, 2012, 05:29:24 PM »

My best advice; Don't be afraid to test stuff!

For example, I flick the normal white light on for about a second when the print is in the developer and I think it is getting ready, to really have a good look at it. For normal darkroom procedures that's at big no-no since it would kill your print. But for lith-printing, my thinking on this is that a second of dimmed white light wont have time to alter a print that's been exposed for 30-80 seconds in the enlarger and that's been in the developer for 5+ minutes (considering you normally won't see anything for the first minutes in the developer anyway). But it will give me a much better view of it than I ever would get from under a safelight.
Works for me

LT · « **Reply #10 on:** February 20, 2012, 06:31:31 PM »

Quote from: Magnus on February 20, 2012, 05:29:24 PM

But for lith-printing, my thinking on this is that a second of dimmed white light wont have time to alter a print that's been exposed for 30-80 seconds in the enlarger and that's been in the developer for 5+ minutes

does this not fog the paper borders which haven't received any exposure so are not so prone to the reciprocity effect?

Francois · « **Reply #11 on:** February 20, 2012, 10:31:06 PM »

It probably would expose the borders but since lith dev is so high contrast, it might not have that big of an effect on the final outcome... especially if the inspection light is quite dim.

I'm thinking refrigerator or even indicator bulb dim.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:16:51 AM »

Quote from: Magnus on February 20, 2012, 05:29:24 PM

My best advice; Don't be afraid to test stuff!
For example, I flick the normal white light on for about a second when the print is in the developer and I think it is getting ready, to really have a good look at it. For normal darkroom procedures that's at big no-no since it would kill your print. But for lith-printing, my thinking on this is that a second of dimmed white light wont have time to alter a print that's been exposed for 30-80 seconds in the enlarger and that's been in the developer for 5+ minutes (considering you normally won't see anything for the first minutes in the developer anyway). But it will give me a much better view of it than I ever would get from under a safelight.
Works for me

sounds daring! though I get the sense of it. I think I'll start off with using the red LED backlight from my bike to check for that elusive, snatch point

hopefully, I'll be able to try this out after work today. here's a shot of what I'll be using:

jojonas~ · « **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:35:30 AM »

oh yeah, I'm taking an old box of tea with me ('scuze me, brits) that I'm thinking about toning with in case I get into this so much that I feel confident enough to do it.
though I'm wondering, at what stage in the process do you tone? after the stop bath? then a water rinse and fix? that'd be my guess without knowing anything really ;P

Magnus · « **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2012, 02:37:50 PM »

Quote from: leon taylor on February 20, 2012, 06:31:31 PM

Quote from: Magnus on February 20, 2012, 05:29:24 PM
But for lith-printing, my thinking on this is that a second of dimmed white light wont have time to alter a print that's been exposed for 30-80 seconds in the enlarger and that's been in the developer for 5+ minutes

does this not fog the paper borders which haven't received any exposure so are not so prone to the reciprocity effect?

Good question... I haven't given this bit about the reciprocity effect much thought.
From my very (very, very) limited experience with lith printing i don't think it's a problem.

With the dilution I'm using for the lith developer (and when it's totally fresh) it takes about 4-5 minutes before i can see any development of the paper in the developer at all. And this from an exposure in the enlarger ranging from 20 to 80 seconds. So this should give me a window of at least 3 to 4 minutes before my short burst of dim white light would start to make an effect on the paper. And by that time, if I haven't misjudged it completely, the print should safely have gone through the stop bath, the fixer and be swimming in the washer.

I have a rather "soft" approach to this. It gives me a much better chance of judging the print in the developer. This is the part i find being the hardest to do under red light. But if I start to see "Issues" I think the short white light burst is one of the things i would suspect first.
But so far I haven't seen any negative impact of it. If it's because of there not being an impact or if it's because of bad judgement, wishful thinking or declining eyesight, I don't know

Magnus · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2012, 02:41:47 PM »

Quote from: jojonas on February 21, 2012, 06:16:51 AM

hopefully, I'll be able to try this out after work today. here's a shot of what I'll be using:

Looks cool Jonas!
Retro-vintage

Good luck and please share the results.

Karl · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2012, 03:44:31 PM »

I had a go at the end of last year. Keep meaning to do it again sometime...
http://adayindecember.wordpress.com/2011/11/13/candlemaker-row-edinburgh/
My advice based on my first attempts is to go for the middle ground mix to begin with and deviate from there. Also, the prints are better after the first one or two have passed through the solution.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:55:54 PM »

ok, thanks for the encouraging thread. I hope I'll make something I can show later here

if I find any paper that works that is :S

ciao!

jojonas~ · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:12:26 PM »

it worked! dug up some old single grade kodak paper that passed the B-drop test.

I was a bit of a wuss with the first prints thinking I'd never get any blacks as usual with the papers I find..
so I went all out and poured the rest of the A and B solution I had into the soup (making it close to 1:1:2)

et voilá! results! I got a bit excitied when the blacks started coming in the end so I almost forgot that I had to snatch it out!
but atleast now I know it works- and I'm somehow pleased with the overdeveloped print. to me that scene was a winter wonderland and now it had taken on a sinister twist!

I'll try to get some more control over the process later this week.. saved a bith of the developer as I heard people do that to add character to new batches. I'm calling it my lith broth

posting a few crummy shots from my camera phone:

Karl · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:47:01 PM »

Cool! It's an intriguing process isn't it.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:52:26 PM »

sure,is karl!

I wonder how toxic the chamicals are though (the B solution smells kind of funky). surely not something to pour down the drain?

Francois · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:55:38 PM »

Actually, most lith developers contain some form of formaldehyde or another... pretty nasty stuff.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2012, 11:09:28 PM »

Quote from: Francois on February 21, 2012, 10:55:38 PM

Actually, most lith developers contain some form of formaldehyde or another... pretty nasty stuff.

yikes! I'll fire up the ventilation next time then. thanks o_o

chricela · « **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:33:02 AM »

I'm kind of late to this one.
I've done Lith a couple of times. Very "seat of my pants". I browsed through Tim Rudman's book, just to be sure I'd have all the right supplies.
And just went for it. I haven't tried pre-exposng the paper. So next time I might.
And I read that you can add some sodium sulphite to the developer , to inhibit pepper fogging.
But haven't tried that yet.
I really like using Ilford IV paper. But it takes a really longtime for the developer to take. & I read that it's best to heat the developer for the process to speed up.
So the 1st time I used a heating pad wrapped in a towel & placed it under the developing try. Worked pretty good. Later I picked up a warming tray on ebay for about $10.
My prints took 30-40mins..just in developer. & I spent most of the time in the dark.
Shutting the safe lights, and only turning them on to check on the progress. After 8 hours only coming up with 3 prints.
Could be I'm doing something wrong to make it take so long. But in the end I was happy with the out come.
Other papers don't take so long. But I really like the tones I get with Ilford..so worth the LONG wait.
Each paper gives different tones, without having to tone it.

jojonas~ · « **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2012, 06:39:18 AM »

wow, chricel! every print sounds like an adventure! I'll try the heating tip. might be a good way if I want to speed the process up without using too much of the lith. I'll see if I have any ilford IV, I'm thinking I could have it at the bottom of the tray and do faster prints on top if I want to try it.

Francois · « **Reply #25 on:** February 22, 2012, 02:42:14 PM »

Quote from: chricel on February 22, 2012, 12:33:02 AM

Later I picked up a warming tray on ebay for about $10.

Well I'll be darned! Another piece of darkroom gear I've never even thought existed!