Topic: LF Film Developing - MOD 5x4

[Karl]

I've tried dish developing - I got a lot of damaged negs

I've tried the combi-plan - too many outlets and a bit of a contraption

So the MOD Photographic thingy came-a-calling...(funny plastic shape to hold 6 negs which you can then drop into a Paterson tank).

I gave it a much anticipated trial run this evening. I entered into it with the spirit of it being a test run. My negs were no classics, just the pets.

No, I wouldn't get stressed. No, I wouldn't shout and swear. I would calmly give it a go and see what happened. Which was stress, shouting and swearing. One, possibly more, of those actions was directed at my 8 year old son who opened the door to the cupboard under the stairs. He was wondering where I was and what I was up to. Why is Daddy shouting from inside that small cupboard he must have wondered? The repeated use of the sentence "DO NOT OPEN THE DOOR" had precisely the opposite effect. Oh well. It was all the shape of a pear by then anyway.

I made the fatal error of looking at the photo sent with the said item very quickly which showed the film inserted horizontally. It wasn't of course, the film wouldn't fit in that way, although I tried to force the issue through to completion of the processing. Not a good idea, but stuck in the dark with 5x4 negs out of the holder and pursuing Einstein's definition of an idiot (when something isn't working you keep doing the same thing to get the result) seemed like a plan. Total failure.

I went for it again and, guess what, putting the film in the right way (vertically) actually helped. In they went. I could even insert the thing into the tank and close the lid!

I got images on 2 out of 6 negatives over both sessions. 1 of the 6 was definitely a dud anyway as I'd left the lens open instead of cocking the shutter. Of the 2 'successful' images one has a bit of damage, not sure why yet. One actually looks OK. One of the negs fell off the holder (not sure how much of an issue this might be, there is a lot of fluid rushing around very light negs that aren't locked in very strongly).

Will post results in the week sometime. Whisky calls.

[moominsean]

Funny i've been think about some contraption as well, as i don't care for the bulk of most 4x5 tanks. Seems like it would be possible to make something compact and rectangular that would allow you to layer negs about 1/8 inch apart, maybe 4 to 6, in a thin container. The patterson tank is mostly wasted space in the center, and the block tanks i've seen are the size of toasters. My idea would be maybe 3-4 inches tall max and then just larger than the 4x5 negs around.

[sapata]

Funny i've been think about some contraption as well, as i don't care for the bulk of most 4x5 tanks. Seems like it would be possible to make something compact and rectangular that would allow you to layer negs about 1/8 inch apart, maybe 4 to 6, in a thin container. The patterson tank is mostly wasted space in the center, and the block tanks i've seen are the size of toasters. My idea would be maybe 3-4 inches tall max and then just larger than the 4x5 negs around.

When it comes to LF tanks I've always heard about having a decent gap between sheets in order to let the developer flows nicely... The 4 inches tall would be perfect but will the chemicals have enough area to flow in such small tank?

I find the combiplan brilliant by the way... apart from the amount of chemicals you have to use everything it's pretty easy.

[moominsean]

I suppose if you can prevent air bubbles it shouldn't matter. Look how close 120 is on the developing spool.

[Sandeha Lynch]

I started with home made tubes following this design, http://medfmt.8k.com/brontube.html which is still great for dev'ing one at a time with about 125ml chems.  As I did more I followed up on a suggestion for a roller drum.  An 8x10 print drum takes only 250ml of chems and does four 4x5, two 5x7 or one whole plate neg.  No scratches, and the ribs help avoid sticking or problems with clearing behind the neg.

   

The white grip ridges (taken from the edge of some plastic electrical ducting) are glued in place.  Best advice is to add 25% extra plain water to a standard dev mix and go for 15% less time since agitation is continuous on the roller.  Slide two sheets in sideways to the bottom, insert the separator disk, and then add two more sheets - all done in a changing bag.  Cheap solutions !!

[LT]

I suppose if you can prevent air bubbles it shouldn't matter. Look how close 120 is on the developing spool.

I think the issue is that 120 film, being smaller, and confined by the reel, is less susceptible to movement.  Even in the combiplan, with good solid support on either side of the negs, I occasionally get a sheet that slips and touches another, causing uneven development and fixing. The best option seems to be the Jobo reels I think: http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/831/jobo-developing-tank-2509n-reel - not used them though ... or maybe the BTZS tubes? : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BTZS-B-W-4x5-Film-Developing-Tube-Kit-/300540778119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f9a05687#ht_548wt_922

[sapata]

I occasionally get a sheet that slips and touches another, causing uneven development and fixing.

Leon, I had this problem once and figure it out that the orange top wasn't fully pressed against the film. I did quite a few tests with a dummy film in order to know exactly how far it needs to be pushed down to prevent this... I basically count how many "clicks" I need for the orange top to gently touch the film as it can't go too much far otherwise the film will bend.

[LT]

I occasionally get a sheet that slips and touches another, causing uneven development and fixing.

Leon, I had this problem once and figure it out that the orange top wasn't fully pressed against the film. I did quite a few tests with a dummy film in order to know exactly how far it needs to be pushed down to prevent this... I basically count how many "clicks" I need for the orange top to gently touch the film as it can't go too much far otherwise the film will bend.

yes - but no matter how careful it is used, it still goes wrong from time to time, which is what makes it so frustrating. I've decided to head towards tube development ... when I have enough money and time to sort it out.

[Phil Bebbington]

I have the camera and I have the film. I have a darkroom, but, not sure I have the bottle!

Just pondering which way to jump

[jojonas~]

Best advice is to add 25% extra plain water to a standard dev mix and go for 15% less time since agitation is continuous on the roller.  Slide two sheets in sideways to the bottom, insert the separator disk, and then add two more sheets - all done in a changing bag.  Cheap solutions !!

can I use these numbers for deving 35mm and 120? I just recently found one of those motorized agitator thingies and I've been wondering how to compensate.

[Sandeha Lynch]

Best advice is to add 25% extra plain water to a standard dev mix and go for 15% less time since agitation is continuous on the roller.  Slide two sheets in sideways to the bottom, insert the separator disk, and then add two more sheets - all done in a changing bag.  Cheap solutions !!

can I use these numbers for deving 35mm and 120? I just recently found one of those motorized agitator thingies and I've been wondering how to compensate.

Sounds like a reasonable starting point, though maybe worth checking the data sheet of the MAT (motorized agitator thingie).   

[moominsean]

I suppose if you can prevent air bubbles it shouldn't matter. Look how close 120 is on the developing spool.

I think the issue is that 120 film, being smaller, and confined by the reel, is less susceptible to movement.  Even in the combiplan, with good solid support on either side of the negs, I occasionally get a sheet that slips and touches another, causing uneven development and fixing. The best option seems to be the Jobo reels I think: http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/products/831/jobo-developing-tank-2509n-reel - not used them though ... or maybe the BTZS tubes? : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BTZS-B-W-4x5-Film-Developing-Tube-Kit-/300540778119?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f9a05687#ht_548wt_922

i use one of those tanks, but i hand agitate. it is huge and awkward (and the top keeps wanting to pop off from the weight of the fluid), and i dilute my BW chemistry usually to 1:3 or 1:4 so i'm not using up half of my supplies for 6 slides....so it takes twice as long.

wish i had the patience that robert adams has. i guess he would hand develop each 4x5 neg by hand, one at a time, and it would take at least 30 minutes per. i guess if i were more serious about my stuff and it was my life.

[astrobeck]

I develop mine one at a time too, but I usually don't shoot more than 2 or 4 sheets during an outing when I use LF.

I use one of those tubes like Sandeha mentioned. http://medfmt.8k.com/brontube.html

Also, after the sheet is dev'd and stopped in the tube, I take it out and fix in a flat tray in the daylight. 
This is probably a weird system for completing the process, but while the first sheet is in the fixer, I rinse the tube, dry it out a bit and then reload to get the next sheet moving along.

While the first sheet is in the print washer, I develop the second sheet...and so on.
It's a multi-tasking effort for sure, but I don't mind as it's a way for me to just get in some sort of zen like zone processing the sheets. 

I wouldn't recommend this way for others, but for me it works well. 

[Terry]

I've been using a Yankee tank for the 4x5 negs.  If I wait until I have six or eight sheets it's pretty economical.  For 5x7 it's a Unidrum on an electric roller.  I can do two sheets of 5x7 in the drum with 300ml of developer.  I've been told 200ml will actually do the job, but I like to err on the side of caution.  Have yet to shoot any 8x10 but the plan is to use the Unidrum for that too.

[Karl]

fascinating thread responses. I am going to give the MOD thingy a few more tries to see if I can get some consistency. I think loading a full 6 negatives will work better than just having 2 or 3. perhaps it will break up the force of the fluids a bit. Also I plan some to be more gentle with the agitation, perhaps digging out the wee swizzle stick that comes with some Paterson tanks.

[LT]

Karl - we videod the designer of the holder talking about using it at the Silverprint xmas open day last December ... we were supposed to have the podcast up and published by now, but as usual, everything has conspired against us ... look out for it soon.

[jojonas~]

Sounds like a reasonable starting point, though maybe worth checking the data sheet of the MAT (motorized agitator thingie).  

what would I do without you??

Karl - we videod the designer of the holder talking about using it at the Silverprint xmas open day last December ... we were supposed to have the podcast up and published by now, but as usual, everything has conspired against us ... look out for it soon.

really? looking forward to it! (also: insert wishes for "radio" podcasts, as usual )