Topic: Developed 1st Roll

[Steven.]

I think I did okay for my first time lol. It's very contrasty though.. Does that mean I over developed it?

here are some shots.. more available on my blog http://steveniphoto.wordpress.com/2012/01/01/2012/







i shot with fp4+ btw.

[LT]

great stuff. good to see you've taken the plunge. I would say, from my screen, they are under exposed. The shadows are blocked, but the highlights look fine.

Basic/ simplified rule of thumb:

blocked shadows = under exposed
blocked highlights = over developed.

[Steven.]

ah ok thanks!

a quick question too.. I tried developing some 120 (expired Tmax) and after I poured out the developer, I noticed it was a pink color instead of transparent (as it had been with the fp4+). when i was done and removed the film from the tank, the film was a pink transparent color (see through) with some completely black squares.. no images formed. any idea what that could be from?

ive heard tmax takes more time to fix but is that the problem? the edge numbers are there btw.

[Sandeha Lynch]

The colour is probably just the anti-halation layer (on the back of the film) that flows out in the dev mix.  With some films it's pink, others green or blue.  If all your frames are black then ... serious overexposure?  Though if your frame edges are crisp at least you have nice flat film at the film gate. 

[hookstrapped]

Like Leon said, I think they're a bit underexposed.  But that's a tough contrasty lighting situation.

[Francois]

the film was a pink transparent color (see through) with some completely black squares.. no images formed. any idea what that could be from?

Check the camera, it sounds like the shutter gets stuck open and grossly overexposes everything.
I don't know if 120 is any different than 35mm when it comes to t-max's anti-halation layer. I used to pre-rinse the film and never got the pink negatives... though the rinse came out very colorful.

[Steven.]

the film was a pink transparent color (see through) with some completely black squares.. no images formed. any idea what that could be from?

Check the camera, it sounds like the shutter gets stuck open and grossly overexposes everything.
I don't know if 120 is any different than 35mm when it comes to t-max's anti-halation layer. I used to pre-rinse the film and never got the pink negatives... though the rinse came out very colorful.

i was using my diana.. i just tested it out now and it works fine.. the only other thing i could think of is that my developer oxidized (i pre made a gallon). it's odd though because i could understand if the whole thing was see through but there are a few black square patches there too.

[Francois]

That's pretty weird... I guess we'd have to see the film to figure this one out.

As for the expired developer, unless it was either ill measured at the dilution stage (like I once did) or if it was mixed over 6 months ago and kept in an half empty jug with a bad air seal, I doubt it would be at fault. Expired developer just doesn't tend to raise contrast enough to produce dense blacks.

[original_ann]

bummer on the blank roll.  TMax requires longer fixing and washing times to clear the special dyes added to the emulsion. These dyes will turn the fixer red and exhaust it faster than "normal" as well.  If not fixed completely, the film will be pink.  Oh and when I'm pouring out my developer it's always pink.

Completely black squares in this case really seem to indicate overexposure in camera.  Shutter problem?

[calbisu]

During my first developing tries (which last for a while), film was always pink when extracted from the tank. Then I started to do a 10 minutes under the tab washing after the clearing and the issue was solved. So in my case I guess the pinky thing was due to left chemicals in the film (fixers..?).

Carlos.

[Steven.]

hmm i was doing some research online and it does seem that tmax needs some extra care when developing.. i'm going to stick to ilford for now i guess until i get to a higher understanding of how the chems work haha.

it is possible that i didnt measure things out correctly but why did it work for the fp4+ and not the tmax? i probably just made an error but i wish i could figure it out so i wouldnt waste moments i probably won't capture again.

[sapata]

As Leon mentioned they're a bit underexposed, but the subject chosen is a difficult one to get the right exposure.

Regarding the pink colour, did you get your film washed enough time ? Most of the films will come out with a weird colour when you first open the tank after the fixing but the colour will normally go after the washing process.

[LT]

expired/ oxidised/ weak dilution of developer would only result in either thin negs or clear film.

if there is no image visible at all, just a series of dense black squares, it can only be a problem with over exposure in camera. Maybe due to sticky shutter or a heavy light leak coming through the lens or lens mount.

Tmax films require longer fixing and washing times than most to remove the undeveloped silver and residue anti halation dyes.  That's why I avoid the stuff and use Ilford delta or HP/FP films

[Steven.]

As Leon mentioned they're a bit underexposed, but the subject chosen is a difficult one to get the right exposure.

Regarding the pink colour, did you get your film washed enough time ? Most of the films will come out with a weird colour when you first open the tank after the fixing but the colour will normally go after the washing process.

i'm not 100% of anything i did to be quite honest its my 1st time using tmax lol. i can accept the fact that the film might be slightly discolored but it was completely see through pink.. no images at all.

expired/ oxidised/ weak dilution of developer would only result in either thin negs or clear film.

if there is no image visible at all, just a series of dense black squares, it can only be a problem with over exposure in camera. Maybe due to sticky shutter or a heavy light leak coming through the lens or lens mount.

Tmax films require longer fixing and washing times than most to remove the undeveloped silver and residue anti halation dyes.  That's why I avoid the stuff and use Ilford delta or HP/FP films

hmm i see what you're saying about overexposure but i have BOTH overexposure and clear film.. the film was properly unrolled in a changing bag and everything. i'm guessing i have too weak of a dilution and maybe didnt wash it long enough.. i just went and bought some hp5 so no worries

[LT]

I dont understand ... how do you mean black squares and clear film? do you mean the rebate areas were clear? if so, that is how it is supposed to be. If the frame where the picture should be was clear, but some were just black dense squares, then the clear ones would not have been exposed, and the others would have been over exposed.  The roll/ changing bag stuff is only relevant if the dense areas spread like a light leak across the frame edges. 

[Francois]

Just one late night thought on this one: are you sure the shutter actually opens and that the black squares you see are not from the square red window on the back (light seeping through and exposing the film) ?

[Steven.]

I dont understand ... how do you mean black squares and clear film? do you mean the rebate areas were clear? if so, that is how it is supposed to be. If the frame where the picture should be was clear, but some were just black dense squares, then the clear ones would not have been exposed, and the others would have been over exposed.  The roll/ changing bag stuff is only relevant if the dense areas spread like a light leak across the frame edges. 

oh i see. it's hard to explain since i dont know what 120 negs are supposed to look like vs 35mm. there are only like 3 dense black squares though.

Just one late night thought on this one: are you sure the shutter actually opens and that the black squares you see are not from the square red window on the back (light seeping through and exposing the film) ?

very possible.. i might just stick to 135 and forget 120 for awhile

[LT]

It's important that you give a clear description of the problem so we can help prevent it from happening again.  I'm still not clear on what's happening.  120 roll film is like any other film in that when exposed and developed properly, you will have a series of neatly framed exposures with approximately 3 mm clear space on the upper and lower edge of the film and about 5mm clear space between each frame.

Can you take a digi snap of the roll on either a light box, or held up to a window? That will give us a better understanding of what is going on. so far, from your description, ti does not sound like a developing or processing problem at all.

when you say three black squares - do you mean they are:

• completely black when held to the light with no lighter portions or visible image?
• the rest of the roll of film is totally clear with no frames or evidence of light exposure (eg density)?

[Steven.]

It's important that you give a clear description of the problem so we can help prevent it from happening again.  I'm still not clear on what's happening.  120 roll film is like any other film in that when exposed and developed properly, you will have a series of neatly framed exposures with approximately 3 mm clear space on the upper and lower edge of the film and about 5mm clear space between each frame.

Can you take a digi snap of the roll on either a light box, or held up to a window? That will give us a better understanding of what is going on. so far, from your description, ti does not sound like a developing or processing problem at all.

when you say three black squares - do you mean they are:

• completely black when held to the light with no lighter portions or visible image?
• the rest of the roll of film is totally clear with no frames or evidence of light exposure (eg density)?

i already tossed the messed up negs (stupid me). the entire roll is a see through with pink tint except for 3 spots where there are black squares (it extends so that edge markings are not visible).

to answer your questions, yes they are completely black with no visible image and yes the rest of the film is totally clear.. only the edge markings are visible on the clear part.

sorry to be difficult i appreciate all the help.

[LT]

ok - that will not be a developer problem at all then.  As the film info and details are clearly visible (as I assume you mean by the "edge markings")the developer has done its job as it should.  it is definitely exposure problems in-camera.  If it was a light leak or fogging from another source, and outside of camera, it would be a general fog or streak with no square edges etc.

It seems you have 3 frames where very strong light has exposed the film in the camera through the front (leaving the black square with defined edges).  if it had entered through the back, it would be a more general fog as it would not have the benefit of the frame mask that the film sits behind in the camera.   the rest of the frames have received no exposure at all - the developer had nothing to work on, and the fixer has washed  away all the remaining silver in the film, leaving a clear piece of film.

it MUST be a shutter problem.  Cut off my head and call me Susan if it isn't so (obscure Blackadder II quote circa 1984)

[Francois]

Is it a Lomography Diana F+ by any chance?
Did you check if you had it on the Pinhole setting by accident?

[Steven.]

ok - that will not be a developer problem at all then.  As the film info and details are clearly visible (as I assume you mean by the "edge markings")the developer has done its job as it should.  it is definitely exposure problems in-camera.  If it was a light leak or fogging from another source, and outside of camera, it would be a general fog or streak with no square edges etc.

It seems you have 3 frames where very strong light has exposed the film in the camera through the front (leaving the black square with defined edges).  if it had entered through the back, it would be a more general fog as it would not have the benefit of the frame mask that the film sits behind in the camera.   the rest of the frames have received no exposure at all - the developer had nothing to work on, and the fixer has washed  away all the remaining silver in the film, leaving a clear piece of film.

it MUST be a shutter problem.  Cut off my head and call me Susan if it isn't so (obscure Blackadder II quote circa 1984)

so if i'm reading correctly, the camera screwed up all my shots? i have 1 remaining roll of tmax so i might try and borrow a MF camera from someone and try again

here's a question i should have asked in the beginning: is there anything i can do wrong in the developing process that can lead to the clear film?

Is it a Lomography Diana F+ by any chance?
Did you check if you had it on the Pinhole setting by accident?

yes it is the f+ and no i didnt have it on pinhole i was using the "cloudy" (wide open) setting for most of the shots though.

[LT]

here's a question i should have asked in the beginning: is there anything i can do wrong in the developing process that can lead to the clear film?

Yes - Fixing undeveloped film will result in clear film. the film might be undeveloped because of expired developer, or just forgetting to use it (quite common surprisingly). BUT, this will not result in film with some frames developed (even if totally black), or clear film with manufacturers details/ frame numbers still on the rebate as this means the film has been developed, but not exposed.

[Francois]

Unless the film got stuck together, which would make some dull dark bands where the fix didn't go...

This would make some nice top to bottom streaks. And also would prompt to check the reels.

[Steven.]

ok thanks guys i appreciate all the info!

[Francois]

Do I get it as you calling it quits on this test

Don't worry, it'll go better next time

[Steven.]

Do I get it as you calling it quits on this test

Don't worry, it'll go better next time

yeah i'm calling this one quits since i'm pretty sure it must have been some kind of camera error or something according to leon. i think i'm just going to use 135 for awhile anyways i just bought a ton of hp5  

[Francois]

Well, you can always try again...
The Diana is a pretty simple camera to troubleshoot so you should be able to figure out quite easily if there's something wrong with it.

[Steven.]

true true. i developed a roll of hp5 today from my vivtar ultra wide and slim and most of the shots were usable but some weren't.. i'm pretty sure its because i underexposed them a lot so yeah its the diana.