Author Topic: Now, about those russian rangefinders  (Read 16732 times)

jojonas~

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Now, about those russian rangefinders
« on: July 19, 2011, 07:21:29 AM »
I've starter looking at them again and I'm liking what I see. Prices aren't bad either..
The contax copy kievs and some zorkies look nice (specially nr 4).

I won't be buying one right now, but I'd be interested to hear other filmwasters opinion on them :)
Like build quality of different bodies and lenses (what to look out for), handling, avaliability, repairability and such things.
It'd also be interesting to hear how and what you prefer to shoot with one.
/jonas

Urban Hafner

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2011, 08:39:01 AM »
I have a Kiev 4AM that I'm selling :) The Helios-103 lens is a great performer. The camera not so much. I wear glasses and the finder is just soo tiny and dim. Also I had film advance issues so I had to send the camera in for service (but then I didn't bother using it again afterwards).

I also sold my FED-2 because the finder was so dim (otherwise a great camera). I can't compare it to the more expensive RFs (Bessas, Leicas) because I've never handled one. But there are certainly compromises that you have to make. But at that price, you can just try ;)

Urban

Andrea.

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2011, 09:37:54 AM »
My main camera I use everyday is a Zorki6 - at the moment with a Jupiter 8. Both are excellent. The camera I sent to Oleg some years ago to be sorted and now it's works lovely. The finder is good to and it doesn't matter if you use glasses because it has a built in adjustable diopter. The Jupiter 8 is a gret performer - as is the Industar 61 and both are very cheap. I've been using a Leitz Elmar for a few days recently and while it has a different look, it's a pig to use certainly not worth the extra money. The leica ii[d] I was also loaned is lovely too but to be quite honest I think I prefer to use is the Zorki6.

I too have a Kiev 4 and while it's quiet, it's a brick, ergonomically weird and is prone to light leaks down the take up spool through the rangefinder ! The Jupiter12 I have on that is just brill tho.

LT

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2011, 09:48:17 AM »
Blimey - they're not as cheap as they used to be:  http://goo.gl/r34h2

L.

Andrea.

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2011, 10:08:28 AM »
Blimey! That is tad steep. How about Oleg http://www.okvintagecamera.com

DS

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2011, 10:39:01 AM »
I love my Zorkis me. A 4 or later is a pretty good bet. As Urban sez the finder won't win any awards but you get used to it. It also has built in diopter correction that solves the glasses issue. I've had kievs too- the nice thing about them is the lenses are a bit cheaper than their m39 brothers and sisters and I find the RF spot a bit more contrasty

Lenses- the jupiter 8 is one of my favourites, It has a lovely look- sharp in the middle, soft at the edge. The jupiter 9 (85mm f2) is a great portrait lens that has a nice dreamy soft wide open but sharp stopped down look. The jupiter 12 (35mm 2.8) is also a quality lens. Wouldn't bother with the 11 (i find 135mm lenses are slightly pointless on rangefinders)

I'd recommend buying gear that looks like it has been used over minty - given the poor quality control the minty gear is more likely to have been a lemon when it left the factory and owes it's shiny appearance to never being used as a result .


jojonas~

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2011, 11:59:17 AM »
nice tips all around, thanks so far :) the point of being a glasses user is interesting indeed. I had heard about some dim finders but kind of forgotten about it.

the zorki sounds better and better. the reasons I might have prefered a kiev before is the contax roots (once a contax boy, always a contax boy ;D ) and I was hoping that the wider rangefinder base would help in pinpoint focusing. all that and cheaper lenses ofcourse :D (nothing like that zorki-75 OMG RARE!!!1 lol 9_9)

I'm pretty used to the way most of these boys advance I think. I've got an old kodak retina I (something like the type 148 model) that I've used a fair bit and gotten used to the round knobs.

used over minty is an excellent tip! I'll probably go with some ebay equaliant but that oleg seems to have good prices for cameras that, I suppose are more or less,  thoroughly checked.

I've looked at the feds and they're no lookers in my eyes. I admit to liking cameras that I think look good in some way or another. either robust, technical, ugly (like the zorki 11! haha), steampunkish even :D but the fed just looks boring in my eyes.

the tips on lenses are interesting. I'd probably want one normal and one wide, portrait if I really get into it I guess :)
/jonas

choppert

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 01:34:57 PM »
Not used a Russian RF but if you are looking for a cheap LTM....

I recently sold my Leica M6 (which at the time felt like a punch in the belly).

Not long after I bought a Canon P and haven't looked back since!

It was about a tenth the price of the M6, is really quite solidly made (despite a few Guinness mishaps) and the RF is beautifully bright.  The only downside is that the viewfinder only goes as wide as 35mm (which suits me fine!).

I've made better shots with the Canon than I did with the Leica.

Beat that!  :P
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Francois

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 03:22:15 PM »
Now you have me want to spend the few remaining pennies I have ;)
Francois

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sapata

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 03:35:08 PM »
Hi jojonas... the Russian lens are an amazing cost for value and the results I've seen are incredible.  One of these cameras are definitely on my list as well so it's good you've started this thread...

I find the Zorki 10 a beauty! ;)
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Kelly.ONeill

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 07:36:34 PM »
I've had a FED 5 for some time now and I love it. While they aren't the most beautiful cameras mine has been re-skinned green and looks lovely  :D  You also can't really beat the Industar-61 for its ridiculously low price. 

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2011, 07:45:52 PM »
Well in a weird sort of way, acquiring an M6 (thanks - and sorry - Chops, I know what a wrench it was) and a Fed 2 (thanks Urban) has worked wonders for me, too:

  • I used to lug my F5 and even my Hassy (+ lenses) to work every day. RFs have eased the strain
  • I've needed a push to go back to wearing contact lenses and it's true to say that RFs are not ideal for spectacle wearers
  • I've now got an option to take a couple of lightweight bodies and some excellent lenses on holiday to Thailand / Cambodia later this year - though I'm wavering on that one just now
  • I've taken some of my better shots of late with both of them - well, in my opinion anyway!

Three cheers for rangefinder photography...!!!  ;D
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Nigel

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2011, 08:49:40 PM »
I've looked at the Russian  rangefinders on and off many times, I've got an interest in the former Soviet Union so for me they have an air of mystique about them. From all I've read, if you're looking for reliability and usability you need to go for one of the later Zorkis either the '4K' or the '6'.

If you do get one please report back I'd be really interested to know how you get on.

Here are a few links I've saved for next time I need to scratch the itch.  ;)

http://www.ussrphoto.com/
http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?-886716444
http://jay.fedka.com/
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Mike (happyforest)

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2011, 09:29:19 PM »
My first real camera of my own was a Zorki 4K and it is sitting by the computer in front of me now.

It is some 30 years old and still in reasonable working order.  The 2nd shutter curtain is a bit sluggish on slow below 30th of second shutter speeds.

My main problem in using it was getting the exposure right.  Had a Leningrad 4 meter to go with it but didn't understand metering.  I remember lots of under\over exposed negatives.

Perhaps I should dust it done and give it a go.

Mike

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2011, 09:39:59 PM »
I have a FED 5. First i love it, but i love my Bessa-R much more!
The FED 5 is big, poor processed, it smells like a russian tank, the lens is wobbly, the finder is dimm... and that are the good characteristics ::)
But: i have a older Industar 61 (non-LD), with hmmm i think a ten-blade iris witch is relubed, and i love it on my Bessa..... But now i have a Canon 50/1,8 thats better.

If you want a really good russian rangefinder look for a CLA'd Zorki 3M with matching Jupiter 8. It has a nealry 1:1 combined finder, diopter-adjustmend an it looks really great. It is the screwmount-Leica Leitz never build! The building quality of this cameras from the fifties is better than the cameras witch are build after 63 or so.....  Such a Camera (or maybe a Zorky 3 with the dial for long times on the front?) is a little dream of me.... :)

sethasaurus

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2011, 12:32:01 AM »
Here's my most modern camera and my only 35mm, made in 1954.
I got it for $20 cos it was all beaten up and not working, and I had to spend a few hours cleaning, lubing and rebuilding it and replacing the shutter curtains - kind of a pain if you've never done it before, even with the repair manual handy.
It's been really good, with a wrist strap on, it fits in the palm of my hand, so it's the one I can carry everywhere if I don't feel like lugging a bag.
It looks like the old Leica II but so far nobody has asked me if it's a Leica (Not much of a population of film shooters here and the tourists tend to have digital SLRs).
I like it because it's an underdog, and I always said "bah, I don't need a Leica!".
I have to get my negative scanning solution sorted so I can post some images online. Everything I have is printed in the darkroom!

Oh, I compared it side-by-side with a Leica IIIc the other day and the difference in finish is obvious. The Leica feels and works a little smoother and is more precisely made. But hey, $20 plus another 10 for shutter curtains and I don't care so much about the differences.
The Industar 22 is a pretty good lens too.

Zorki 1d:
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 12:44:59 AM by sethasaurus »
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Francois

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 03:29:42 PM »
Well...it was a copy of the Leica...

Just to compare, here's my grandpa's Leica 1C with the same views
Francois

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Nigel

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2011, 03:44:15 PM »
They are very similar, there's something about the simplicity of the design of the Leica M range I've always loved. It's a beautiful piece of both engineering and design (and they don't take bad pictures either).
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Nigel

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 05:14:08 PM »
You see what you've done, you've started me looking at them again. I'd happily moved on and now I find myself back on 'the google'.

Here's an interesting comparison of the models from Cameraquest: http://www.cameraquest.com/soviet.htm

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Urban Hafner

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 05:21:15 PM »
You see what you've done, you've started me looking at them again. I'd happily moved on and now I find myself back on 'the google'.

So have I. But in the end I'm not sure I want another interchangeable lens RF which only shows 50mm.

Urban

sapata

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2011, 06:42:55 PM »
I never managed finding one cheap on ebay... in the end I went for the real thing.

I believe I posted this before but here it go again... ;)
http://jay.fedka.com/index_files/Page367.htm
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Nigel

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chris_n

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2011, 09:56:43 AM »
i love my zorki but they aren't as cheap as they used to be :/  prices seem to be just going up and up.  here's a link to a set of my zorki images http://www.flickr.com/photos/tufts/sets/72157626709203308/with/5955336644/  all shot with the jupiter 8.

if anyone has a canon p in good working order i'd love to take it off your hands!

Mil Mascaras

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2011, 10:56:57 AM »
I toyed around with Russian cameras a lot in the past and even I picked up a few on my last trip to Russia last year (I paid something like 5 or 6 EUR for the uglier and older Fed's and Zorki's with an Industar 50/52mm f3.5 on each) but I don't want to use them anymore. I always found them cumbersome and unpleasant to use. They are unreliable to say the least. The most valuable thing I picked up on that trip is a turret finder which isn't all that useful but looks cool.

IMO Russian cameras stopped being bargains a long time ago. They are now too expensive and it's a lottery. Some of the Leica III copies look pretty though and I will pick up one again when I get a new house, for decoration purposes.

The lenses, however, can be really good if you get a good sample. I'd pick up the Jupiter 50mm f1.5 again but internet prices are too high (I'd rather go for a Nokton or a Canon!). The Elmar copy that I have is pretty nice and it looks cool with the Russian writing. I may pick up their 85mm lens sometime in the future but lately I have been spending a lot of money on this hobby.

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2011, 12:51:19 PM »
I had a Zorki 4K for a few years that I really liked....but it died a sudden death a year ago.
I also have a Fed 3 with a Jupiter 12 that works like a champ...I just don't use it much.

I have also noticed the prices have crept up over time.  When I bought mine they were about 18 USD, which at the time I thought a bit high, but it seems that film cameras in general have risen in cost lately.

Maybe film will make a big comeback soon? :)

Francois

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2011, 03:06:14 PM »
Maybe film will make a big comeback soon? :)
I'd more likely bet on old collectors who want to spend every last dime they have on their collection so they can have "every version ever made" of something... The deals will probably come only (sadly) when their inheritance will want to liquidate the stuff.

Now, why can't they all collect only spoons, salt shakers or matches...
Francois

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jojonas~

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2011, 10:43:02 PM »

Now, why can't they all collect only spoons, salt shakers or matches...

Easy, they don't look as good ;)
/jonas

Miles

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2011, 11:52:54 PM »

I got a Fed 4 a year ago for £5 and it's grand, the metre is a boon and always works proper job.

I bought a Zorki 4k for £10 from a Charity shop because it looked nice but it's got the common sticky shutter on speed under 1/60 so haven't used it much.

I love all the Soviet stuff anyway but I do think the Fed is a great RF.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/milesdavissmiley/4692162828/#sizes/l/in/set-72157624276282496/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/milesdavissmiley/4691529711/#sizes/l/in/set-72157624276282496/

Rafael Morales

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2011, 02:11:02 AM »
I have a FED 5C and I like it a lot. It is a bit heavy, hard to carry about, and it has no strap lugs. Great lens though.
I also have a couple of Kiev4 one of them with the selenium meter and one without. They are good cameras but I don't trust the rangefinder on one because it sometimes comes off a bit and the focusing goes off a bit. Plus I think it has a light leak somewhere. :( I think the other Kiev4 is ok I have to go back and find some shots I took with it.
Hope this helps.

Alan

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2011, 09:49:32 AM »
is it just me or is quality film gear steadily rising in price . . .

or in some cases holding their current value?


does this in fact mean an increase in the use of film?

I too was looking at aquiring some russian gear a while back
but yea after extensive searching it just got all too much for me.
there are so many variants and models it was just too hard to decide !!

there is some cracking glass available from the soviet era... jupiter 12 is
supposed to be great all right and the helios 44-2.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 09:53:46 AM by aoluain »

DS

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2011, 09:56:18 AM »
is it just me or is quality film gear steadily rising in price . . .

or in some cases holding their current value?

does this in fact mean an increase in the use of film?

I think some of it is the digi crowd using old lenses on their SLRs- and some of those which are nice but nowt special have become super trendy and expensive thanks to the interweb- like the flektogons and the takumars.

This makes me sad...

Alan

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2011, 10:04:09 AM »
correct, i had not thought of that !

almost anything can be adapted to the 4/3 format now!

Mil Mascaras

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2011, 11:23:17 AM »
I have a micro 4/3 camera and I noticed how prices of almost every classic lens went up a year and a half ago. Old M-Mount lenses like the Russian ones have gone up due to demand from the M/43 and new Leica users in fast developing countries, especially China. Why would you spend all that money on a Leica M3 and then have nothing left for a reliable Elmar I don't know.

Canon FD lenses went up in price dramatically as well as the Nikons.

The best value for money you can find usually is on lenses of companies that don't work in the photo industry anymore like Konica or Minolta, or abandoned mounts like M42.

DS

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2011, 02:48:46 PM »
Why would you spend all that money on a Leica M3 and then have nothing left for a reliable Elmar I don't know.

That'd be me... I use my Jupiter 8 on my M5 all the time. I just like the look of the piccies from the lens, which is lucky because I can't afford a decent 50 at the mo. Stopped down it's more than sharp enough and I honestly don't think I'd be able to tell the difference given my style of shooting (grainy film and shaky hands). To me the Ms (and, to be fair the Voigtlaenders and the Zeisses) are all about the lovely finder rather than the glass, and for the money some of the Russian lenses are a steal (even if they're getting pricier)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2011, 02:51:47 PM by DS »

Mil Mascaras

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2011, 03:07:51 PM »
Why would you spend all that money on a Leica M3 and then have nothing left for a reliable Elmar I don't know.

That'd be me... I use my Jupiter 8 on my M5 all the time. I just like the look of the piccies from the lens, which is lucky because I can't afford a decent 50 at the mo. Stopped down it's more than sharp enough and I honestly don't think I'd be able to tell the difference given my style of shooting (grainy film and shaky hands). To me the Ms (and, to be fair the Voigtlaenders and the Zeisses) are all about the lovely finder rather than the glass, and for the money some of the Russian lenses are a steal (even if they're getting pricier)

You have a M5, that's not a real Leica...... haha, just kidding. But the Jupiter 8 is a good lens and prices of good 50s are mostly ridiculous.

I agree with you about the cameras. I'd love to have an M7, but I do fine with my Zeiss (whose finder is much bigger than any Leica!!!) which is very reliable. I mostly shoot B&W, also grainy, street, so I do fine with Voigtlander lenses. It's funny but the more that I shoot, the less new cameras that I need and the more lenses that I want! And if I am not shooting a lot, I don't care about lenses but get interested about switching to medium format or something.

Jack Johnson

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #35 on: August 10, 2012, 06:32:36 AM »
Not used a Russian RF but if you are looking for a cheap LTM....

I recently sold my Leica M6 (which at the time felt like a punch in the belly).

Not long after I bought a Canon P and haven't looked back since!

I'm currently fantasizing about a blend: Canon P with an Industar-61 L/D, but now that I've stumbled across this old thread I'm going to have to go perusing the Zorkis.

EDIT: I'm also wondering about a Pentax Spotmatic SPII with an Industar-61 L/Z....
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 06:39:45 AM by Jack Johnson »

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Re: Now, about those russian rangefinders
« Reply #36 on: August 10, 2012, 02:21:29 PM »
I like the Russian cameras had a Zorki for a while before the shutter gave out the Jupiter lens is very good. I would echo the advice on the Canon Rangefinders from the 1950-60's they are great. Sometimes the lenses can be found really cheaply and a couple of sleepers easily found are the 50mm ƒ1,8 LTM and the 35mm ƒ1,8 which I have attached to my M4-P 24/7


I bought it in preference to the Summicron 35mm ƒ2 I preferred the look of the shots from the Canon.

Mark
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